Electric cars?

[Value Collector]

Hyundai will not takeover the Tesla until they stop pissing off their customers and potential customers.
The ridiculous online ordering system creates that sees people competing to complete the order form before all the car s are sold discriminates against people with slow or even nonexistent internet access.
They also discriminate against people outside the capital cities.
You have to put your Postcode in when you aorder, so the clever eople outside of the main cities lied about their postcode.
Shocked that they had to deliver cars to people who did not live close to the delerships, Hyundai have now demanded that potential buyers put in the drivers license as well as their post code.
If the drivers license and the post code entered do not match, the order is rejected.

​

From The DrivenIO

That’s good news, but it won’t be soon enough for some. “Screw you guys, I’ll build my own electric car,” joked one reader in a note to The Driven.

Mick

They should just do what Tesla did with the Model 3 and just let unlimited orders to be placed.

I think some of the guys here will remember me waiting about 2.5 years for my model 3 after I put down the deposit, I think there was about 400,000 orders in front of me.

I think as long as you have to place a $1000 deposit so they know the order is real, but the person can cancel and refund the deposit at any time they should just let unlimited orders go through.

Tesla held over $400 Million in deposits on the model three, which in part helped pay to build the factory, capitalism at its best IMO.

 

[JohnDe]

BMW’s Tesla competitor -

BMW i4 M50 review: It’s the European answer to Tesla I expected to arrive years ago​

It’s important not to underestimate how difficult a task is – reinventing the wheel or finding a way to remove a teenager from a smartphone would be comparable in this case – before we get overly critical about the end result.
BMW’s i4 could well be the first car to give the long-held hegemony of Tesla’s Model 3 a good shake by producing a properly Germanic, attractive and sporty four-door EV sedan that’s involving and exciting to drive. The problem is that BMW might, arguably, have stuffed up the whole thing by making its otherwise wonderful electric vehicle sound like a remix of the Close Encounters of the Third Kind soundtrack.

Obviously, replacing the thrilling, growling sounds that BMW’s internal-combustion cars have always made with entirely fake noises created by people in sound studios was going to be difficult to the point of contentious, and in our week together I tested the BMW’s “Iconic Sounds” on various people, of all ages. I can thus report that more than half of those surveyed hated the space-ship symphonies coming out of the BMW i4 every time you accelerate, or decelerate. My 10-year-old daughter couldn’t believe I hadn’t noticed how much it sounded like a time machine, while some grown adults – all of them big Star Wars fans, incidentally – absolutely loved the synthetic symphonies.

At the recharging station

The film references are apt because BMW paid the legendary movie-theme musician Hans Zimmer an undisclosed fortune to come up with its EV sounds, from the trilling start-up hum to the “she cannae take any more, skipper, she’s gin tae blow!” shouting as your speed rises.

I got to meet Zimmer a few years ago in his Santa Monica studio, undoubtedly the coolest room I’ve ever stood in, with his Oscar for The Lion King tucked in a corner, and I can attest that he was a huge car fan who took the job very seriously indeed. But with the i4 he was on a hiding to nothing, and I do suspect he may have been running late for the deadline and just took his work from Blade Runner 2049 and handed that to BMW instead.

Personally, I’ll admit the zooms, whooshes, hums and bloops grew on me as the week went on, but then I’ve always been a bit of a nerd (to the point where I wrestled with asking Zimmer whether he felt like Antonio Salieri next to the Mozart of film-score composers, John Williams).

I don’t want to suggest that the noises define the i4 entirely, and you can turn them down by choosing Comfort mode or up by selecting Sport Boost (I later discovered there is a way to turn them off entirely), but I tended to stay in the noisy Sport mode most of the time, because it was so much fun, and that made the soundtrack part of the experience.

The good news is that everything else about the i4 feels properly premium and bravura BMW, which means it has fantastic, meaty steering, a lovely handling balance, the ability to corner like a proper German sports car and exciting amounts of acceleration. Arguably, with its low centre of gravity thanks to the big batteries under the floor, it handles even better than a normal 4 Series. The sporty i4 M50 variant I drove can hit 100km/h in 3.9 seconds – and that acceleration is always available at any speed, waiting to kick you in the spine.

This car is, in many ways, the European answer to Tesla I expected to arrive years ago, but one that has been worth waiting for.

Unfortunately, however, a Tesla Model 3, which starts at $65,500, has BMW well and truly beaten on price because this car costs a whopping $124,900. (To be fair, you’d compare the i4 M50 I drove with the Model 3 Performance variant, and that starts at $95k.)

The other downside is that, like too many BMWs I’ve driven, it seems to suffer from the kind of technical fritz-outs that suggest there’s some kind of cold war going on between the engineers in Munich and the folks at Apple. CarPlay either doesn’t work half the time, is too difficult to connect to on a daily basis, or simply disappears entirely just as you’re trying to answer a call.

From the side
Considering that BMW has clearly aped Mercedes with this car by turning its dash layout into one giant screen, this seems a real shame, because the real estate is there to make its infotainment system look impressive if only it would work all the time.

In terms of range, you’re better off going for the entry-level eDrive40 ($99,900), which gives you up to 520km, while the extra performance punch of the M50 (it has a motor on each axle, rather than just one) cuts that back to 465km.

The i4 is equipped with an 84kWh lithium-ion battery, which you can charge for free at any Chargefox station (the car comes with a free five-year subscription). Find one of Chargefox’s 200kW fast chargers and it will go from 10 to 80 per cent charge in just 31 minutes.

It really is a shame the i4 is so expensive, because it’s a genuinely fantastic EV to drive. BMW has done a good job of adapting an existing car in its range – the excellent 4 Series – and electrifying it, and it certainly bodes well for what it will be able to do with a performance electric car designed from a clean sheet of paper.

Hopefully there’ll be some new choices of fake noises, too.

BMW i4 M50

ENGINE: Dual current excited synchronous motors (400kW/795Nm). Average 25.6 kWh per 100km

TRANSMISSION: 1-speed automatic, all-wheel drive

PRICE: $124,900

STARS: 4 out of 5

 

[moXJO]

BMW’s Tesla competitor -

Always found that BMW's and mercs were full of problems and expensive to service/fix.

 

[JohnDe]

Fully charged, and preparing to head on home today.

Preconditioning the battery in cold weather improves efficiency.

 

[sptrawler]

China's MG, cranking up the competition.

2023 MG 4 electric car price revealed in the UK, hints at $40,000 in Australia

Due in Australian showrooms next year, the MG 4 could become the cheapest electric car on sale locally with a drive-away price of $40,500.

www.drive.com.au

Chinese car maker MG has released pricing for its upcoming MG 4 electric hatch in the UK, giving Australian buyers an indication of how much they can expect to pay when it arrives in local showrooms next year.
Based on calculations by Drive – using UK prices as a guide – the basic MG 4 could go on sale from $40,500 drive-away, although it could be renamed from the SE Standard Range grade to Excite in an attempt to align it with MG’s Australian naming structure.
It would make the MG 4 Australia’s cheapest electric car, undercutting the BYD Atto 3’s $44,381 drive-away price by almost $3900.

Most Australian states and territories offer financial incentives for electric cars, although Western Australia’s generous $3500 rebate could reduce the MG 4’s drive-away cost to $37,000.
Two additional variants of the MG 4 are available in the UK, with the SE Long Range starting from about $44,500 drive-away based on UK pricing.
The top-of-the-range MG 4 Trophy Long Range could be priced from $49,200 drive-away, if UK pricing is a guide.

 

[qldfrog]

China's MG, cranking up the competition.

2023 MG 4 electric car price revealed in the UK, hints at $40,000 in Australia

Due in Australian showrooms next year, the MG 4 could become the cheapest electric car on sale locally with a drive-away price of $40,500.

www.drive.com.au

View attachment 145134

Chinese car maker MG has released pricing for its upcoming MG 4 electric hatch in the UK, giving Australian buyers an indication of how much they can expect to pay when it arrives in local showrooms next year.
Based on calculations by Drive – using UK prices as a guide – the basic MG 4 could go on sale from $40,500 drive-away, although it could be renamed from the SE Standard Range grade to Excite in an attempt to align it with MG’s Australian naming structure.
It would make the MG 4 Australia’s cheapest electric car, undercutting the BYD Atto 3’s $44,381 drive-away price by almost $3900.

Most Australian states and territories offer financial incentives for electric cars, although Western Australia’s generous $3500 rebate could reduce the MG 4’s drive-away cost to $37,000.
Two additional variants of the MG 4 are available in the UK, with the SE Long Range starting from about $44,500 drive-away based on UK pricing.
The top-of-the-range MG 4 Trophy Long Range could be priced from $49,200 drive-away, if UK pricing is a guide.

As long as the AUD holds its value..and China is not blockading us

 

[sptrawler]

As long as the AUD holds its value..and China is not blockading us

I got my VIN number to day so, at least I might be able to get and use the car, before the power stations are hit with a missile.?
I've down loaded a great app, learn Mandarin at you own pace, as I always say allow for the worst.

 

[qldfrog]

I got my VIN number to day so, at least I might be able to get and use the car, before the power stations are hit with a missile.?
I've down loaded a great app, learn Mandarin at you own pace, as I always say allow for the worst.

I am one step ahead...lived there for 3 y ..so really scared
I supposedly registered with BYD to be in their mailing list but nothing for the last month...

 

[sptrawler]

I am one step ahead...lived there for 3 y ..so really scared
I supposedly registered with BYD to be in their mailing list but nothing for the last month...

Yes if push comes to shove, I think Taiwan will go on the back burner, China will say "in for a penny, may as well be in for a pound".

But I think I will still get to enjoy the E.V for a while before we get to that, as they say "you can't take it with you", young people will say of course not an E.V wont fit in the plane. ?

 

[Value Collector]

Yes if push comes to shove, I think Taiwan will go on the back burner, China will say "in for a penny, may as well be in for a pound".

But I think I will still get to enjoy the E.V for a while before we get to that, as they say "you can't take it with you", young people will say of course not an E.V wont fit in the plane. ?

I found this video last night, it’s very interesting.

Opened my eyes a bit more into the complexity of the situation, kinda made me that that perhaps the situation would be better if the USA stayed out of it.

 

[Smurf1976]

On Sunday my bank account worked fine.

On Monday I logged in but couldn't access credit card transactions. No reason given, just not working.

Today, Tuesday, it works fine again.

That is why I'm not keen on the idea of over the air software updates for EV's or indeed any car. No offense to anyone personally, but I've encountered far too many examples where "IT people" clearly failed to properly test before implementation.

It costs serious time and $ to properly test, it's months and serious $ millions to do it properly, but all too often shortcuts are taken with the intent that any problems later discovered will be "patched". That's bad enough if it's a bank but no way am I enthusiastic about that approach with a car.

I accept that Tesla or others may well be doing proper testing but having seen more than a few instances of shortcuts being taken, it's a "just trust me" statement from a stranger that does make me cautious not about EV's but about that aspect.

 

[Value Collector]

On Sunday my bank account worked fine.

On Monday I logged in but couldn't access credit card transactions. No reason given, just not working.

Today, Tuesday, it works fine again.

That is why I'm not keen on the idea of over the air software updates for EV's or indeed any car. No offense to anyone personally, but I've encountered far too many examples where "IT people" clearly failed to properly test before implementation.

It costs serious time and $ to properly test, it's months and serious $ millions to do it properly, but all too often shortcuts are taken with the intent that any problems later discovered will be "patched". That's bad enough if it's a bank but no way am I enthusiastic about that approach with a car.

I accept that Tesla or others may well be doing proper testing but having seen more than a few instances of shortcuts being taken, it's a "just trust me" statement from a stranger that does make me cautious not about EV's but about that aspect.

What about updates that are designed to make the car safer? It’s hard to imagine that any car that rolls of the assembly line will have perfect software that never needs updating.

Even something as simply as the automatic window wipers in my car were less than perfect on day one, but after a few updates they work great, I would have hated to be stuck with the original window wiper software that only recognised a limited about of rain patterns.

 

[sptrawler]

On Sunday my bank account worked fine.

On Monday I logged in but couldn't access credit card transactions. No reason given, just not working.

Today, Tuesday, it works fine again.

That is why I'm not keen on the idea of over the air software updates for EV's or indeed any car. No offense to anyone personally, but I've encountered far too many examples where "IT people" clearly failed to properly test before implementation.

It costs serious time and $ to properly test, it's months and serious $ millions to do it properly, but all too often shortcuts are taken with the intent that any problems later discovered will be "patched". That's bad enough if it's a bank but no way am I enthusiastic about that approach with a car.

I accept that Tesla or others may well be doing proper testing but having seen more than a few instances of shortcuts being taken, it's a "just trust me" statement from a stranger that does make me cautious not about EV's but about that aspect.

The other issue is, as more models, more complexity, more operating systems, more software engineers, more turnover of personel. We have seen it before in different industries, havent we.

 

[JohnDe]

On Sunday my bank account worked fine.

On Monday I logged in but couldn't access credit card transactions. No reason given, just not working.

Today, Tuesday, it works fine again.

That is why I'm not keen on the idea of over the air software updates for EV's or indeed any car. No offense to anyone personally, but I've encountered far too many examples where "IT people" clearly failed to properly test before implementation.

It costs serious time and $ to properly test, it's months and serious $ millions to do it properly, but all too often shortcuts are taken with the intent that any problems later discovered will be "patched". That's bad enough if it's a bank but no way am I enthusiastic about that approach with a car.

I accept that Tesla or others may well be doing proper testing but having seen more than a few instances of shortcuts being taken, it's a "just trust me" statement from a stranger that does make me cautious not about EV's but about that aspect.

Mobile phones have been using over the air software updates OTA for a decade. I’ve lost count of how many iPhones I have had and how many OTA updates they have had, but I do remember that not one of my iPhones was turned into a brick or failed to do its primary job. Each OTA has ensured that the device can keep up with new protocols and security.

My Tesla M3 has the option of three upgrades, one increases performance and the other two are enhancements to AP & FSD, all possible by OTA software upgrades, at a cost of course.

Over-the-air update - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[sptrawler]

What about updates that are designed to make the car safer? It’s hard to imagine that any car that rolls of the assembly line will have perfect software that never needs updating.

Even something as simply as the automatic window wipers in my car were less than perfect on day one, but after a few updates they work great, I would have hated to be stuck with the original window wiper software that only recognised a limited about of rain patterns.

Mobile phones have been using over the air software updates OTA for a decade. I’ve lost count of how many iPhones I have had and how many OTA updates they have had, but I do remember that not one of my iPhones was turned into a brick or failed to do its primary job. Each OTA has ensured that the device can keep up with new protocols and security.

My Tesla M3 has the option of three upgrades, one increases performance and the other two are enhancements to AP & FSD, all possible by OTA software upgrades, at a cost of course.

Over-the-air update - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Anything new is scary, in 10 years time it will be mainstream, at the moment memories of software failures are too recent IMO. In a lot of cases over the air from the manufacturer, may actually be safer and done more correctly than by some young bloke with a face full of pimples in the workshop.
The only good thing with the guy in the workshop doing it, he has to test drive it.?
Which reminds me of that joke:
When I die I want to go like my grandfather did, in his sleep, not screaming like everyone else in the car.

 

[Smurf1976]

What about updates that are designed to make the car safer? It’s hard to imagine that any car that rolls of the assembly line will have perfect software that never needs updating.

My concern is simply about proper testing.

Proper testing of software is seriously expensive and time consuming and I'm aware of too many instances where it hasn't been done properly and a fault has been found. No big deal if it's a gaming console, very big deal if it involves some sort of physical incident in the real world because of that failure.

I've absolutely no doubt that it can be done properly. Develop the software, comprehensively test it, run it on a simulated system, then release it for real world use.

The problem with remote updates however is more a cultural one. If fixing a problem can be done quietly in the middle of the night without telling the public, stock exchange or even senior management then that does open the door to poor practices.

It'll be done, I've zero doubt about that, but there are dangers when fixing problems becomes cheap and easy - it encourages a lessening of efforts to avoid them in the first place.

 

[qldfrog]

On Sunday my bank account worked fine.

On Monday I logged in but couldn't access credit card transactions. No reason given, just not working.

Today, Tuesday, it works fine again.

That is why I'm not keen on the idea of over the air software updates for EV's or indeed any car. No offense to anyone personally, but I've encountered far too many examples where "IT people" clearly failed to properly test before implementation.

It costs serious time and $ to properly test, it's months and serious $ millions to do it properly, but all too often shortcuts are taken with the intent that any problems later discovered will be "patched". That's bad enough if it's a bank but no way am I enthusiastic about that approach with a car.

I accept that Tesla or others may well be doing proper testing but having seen more than a few instances of shortcuts being taken, it's a "just trust me" statement from a stranger that does make me cautious not about EV's but about that aspect.

I could add that as a small market, isolated,we are a really good candidate so updates can be tested here first, then íf working, pushed elsewhere.??

 

[qldfrog]

My concern is simply about proper testing.

Proper testing of software is seriously expensive and time consuming and I'm aware of too many instances where it hasn't been done properly and a fault has been found. No big deal if it's a gaming console, very big deal if it involves some sort of physical incident in the real world because of that failure.

I've absolutely no doubt that it can be done properly. Develop the software, comprehensively test it, run it on a simulated system, then release it for real world use.

The problem with remote updates however is more a cultural one. If fixing a problem can be done quietly in the middle of the night without telling the public, stock exchange or even senior management then that does open the door to poor practices.

It'll be done, I've zero doubt about that, but there are dangers when fixing problems becomes cheap and easy - it encourages a lessening of efforts to avoid them in the first place.

The key is owner control,even with Windows systems.
You need to be able to veto upgrades etc.
That windows upgrades might disable your custom ATO driver, in the same way as the Tesla one might forget the added module "hopping kangoroo avoidance system".
No one will know the difference.. for a while
But the usual attitude is
Trust us manufacturers, we know better....

 

[JohnDe]

I found this video last night, it’s very interesting.

Opened my eyes a bit more into the complexity of the situation, kinda made me that that perhaps the situation would be better if the USA stayed out of it.

Value Collector:

I found this video last night, it’s very interesting.

Opened my eyes a bit more into the complexity of the situation, kinda made me that that perhaps the situation would be better if the USA stayed out of it.

Everyone is allowed an opinion, unless you're involved with a dictatorship or communist controlled.

Asian Boss accused of seeking pro-KMT viewpoints for Taiwan street interviews
Channel featured Taiwanese YouTuber known for pro-KMT stance

TAIPEI (Taiwan News) — The YouTube channel Asian Boss has drawn criticism for allegedly "pre-screening" interviewees for those with Kuomintang (KMT) party viewpoints and for featuring a pro-KMT YouTuber in a pre-planned "street interview."

On Jan. 3, the YouTube channel Asian Boss posted what it purported to be interviews with "ordinary Taiwanese people" about their opinions on China and cross-strait relations. At the beginning of the video, The founder and CEO of Asian Boss, Stephen Park, said that his channel conducts street interviews because "we believe that it's always best to hear directly from the people to take the accurate pulse of the public."

However, after viewing the video, many netizens, bloggers, and vloggers in Taiwan were disappointed to find that one of the supposed "random bystanders" prominently featured in the video is actually YouTuber 柴Sean你說, who expresses views consistent with KMT political ideology. In the video, the YouTuber strongly emphasized that Taiwan is a "province under the Republic of China" and the KMT stance that both China and Taiwan are part of the Republic of China.

He also offended many by saying Taiwanese do not have a separate ethnic identity from China and that "the current majority of the population is Han Chinese." He asserted that those who are not Indigenous Taiwanese do not have the right to call themselves Taiwanese.

The YouTuber described Chinese Chairman Xi Jinping (習近平) as a "calm man" but said this does not mean he would not "make the decision to start the war." He asserted that Xi would consider invading Taiwan if provoked by "America's attitude" or if Taiwanese "make the wrong decision and implement complete Taiwan independence."

Taiwanese independent video producer Christopher K. Young told Taiwan News that he had been approached by Asian Boss about recording video and providing a reporter to conduct street interviews for the episode. Young initially agreed to what he believed would be several hours of interviews of people in Taipei.

However, he was told that the show already had enough interviews from people with a Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) perspective and that it wanted to "prescreen" for a KMT viewpoint. Young said he told them he could arrange for formal interviews with people representing a KMT point of view but that the Asian Boss producers wanted the interviews to seem spontaneous.

Young was told that he could only carry out interviews with people who supported "blue" (KMT) views. He said that this "didn't sit right" with him and was an unnecessary risk to his reporter.

He said that the producers of Asian Boss wanted him to go to places where young people congregate, including Ximending. Young was to locate subjects at the scene and prescreen them for blue camp views.

Young told the producers he would capture video of any interview the show might arrange, but he would not go on location and proposition interviews if he had to prescreen their views beforehand.

Ultimately, Young said he decided not to participate in the project because he felt the notion of prescreening interviewees for their political affiliations was unethical. He said the finished product was "fallacious and hyperbolically fringy."

It should be noted that many of those interviewed in the video did express pro-green (DPP) opinions. Asian Boss has yet to respond to Taiwan News' request for comment.

​

 

[sptrawler]

As we said earlier in this thread, the legacy car manufacturers are gutting out the cheap and cheerful models, to bring the perceived cost difference between ICE and E.V's closer, now we are seeing the words cheap applied to E.V's. Life is about diversion and deception, ' keepa dancing Maria' ala the Paul Hogan Show.?
It wasn't long ago that you could drive a Mitsubishi Mirage away for $13,000, times and perceptions move on.

The race for Australia's cheapest electric car in 2023

Five new electric cars – including four from China – are due in Australian showrooms within 12 months, each vying to be the country's cheapest. The

www.drive.com.au

The 'affordable' electric-car market in Australia is set for a major expansion next year, with the arrival of a range of five new contenders in the next 12 months expected to cost in the region of $45,000.
Five new electric cars – four from China, and one from Europe – are due in Australia between this month and the middle of next year, with expected price tags between $35,000 and $50,000.
The first of Australia's new 'affordable' electric cars is due this month (BYD Atto 3) – with the MG 4 and Ora Good Cat due to follow early next year, the BYD Dolphin/Atto 2 between March and mid-year (though orders are due to open this year), and the Fiat sometime in 2023.