Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Electric cars?

Would you buy an electric car?

  • Already own one

    Votes: 10 5.1%

  • Yes - would definitely buy

    Votes: 43 21.8%

  • Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    Votes: 78 39.6%

  • Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    Votes: 37 18.8%

  • No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    Votes: 25 12.7%

  • No - would never buy one

    Votes: 14 7.1%
  • Total voters
    197
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SirRumpole said:
I think we would be naive to assume that the subscription thing won't spread to as many parts of the car as the makers can fit in.

It's just a way of gouging people for as long as they can.
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I think it’s just a fact of life that internet access and software updates have ongoing costs, these can either be covered by large upfront costs, then people say “gee that car is expensive, let’s add a luxury tax to it” or the costs can be covered over time by monthly or annual fees.
 
Value Collector said:
Don’t you pay a subscription for that phone?

Obviously it’s not going to work for you if you stop paying for the internet connection.
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Yes but with a phone, if I wish to purchase it outright, I can chose who I want to use as the information provider.
With propriety software in a car that probably wont be an option, unless as I said the Govt legislate to allow items to be provided by third party providers eg navigation and remote access e.g blue tooth, android auto, apple car play .
 
SirRumpole said:
The internet connection is used for more things than car navigation.
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Yes, but your car requires an internet connection to offer you a high end navigation experience, Tesla has to pay Telstra or optus to keep the car connected as you drive around, this of course costs money.

At the moment the basic level of data needed for navigation, controlling the car via the app etc is provided free, (well is built into the cost of the car)
 
sptrawler said:
Yes but with a phone, if I wish to purchase it outright, I can chose who I want to use as the information provider.
With propriety software in a car that probably wont be an option, unless as I said the Govt legislate to allow items to be provided by third party providers eg navigation and remote access e.g blue tooth, android auto, apple car play .
Click to expand...
Either way you have to pay some one for that service right? It’s not something you expect for free just because you purchased a piece of hardware is it?
 
Value Collector said:
Either way you have to pay some one for that service right? It’s not something you expect for free just because you purchased a piece of hardware is it?
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But Tesla ties you to their internet service, you can't chose anyone else (as far as I know).

So they can charge what they like without competition and can keep hiking the rates as much as they want.
 
Value Collector said:
Either way you have to pay some one for that service right? It’s not something you expect for free just because you purchased a piece of hardware is it?
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That isn't correct, they are forcing you to use their propriety software, when you may not want to, for example I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee the navigation software is rubbish, so I changed the head unit to an android auto compatible unit and use third party software.
If as in the case of Tesla, the central control device controls everything, the option of changing the unit isn't available to me.
It would be like buying a mobile phone from Telstra and only being able to use Telstra apps.
 
sptrawler said:
That is exactly the point I was making earlier, how can touching a phone while moving, if it is in a secure holder, be treated any different to touching a screen on a infotainment system located away from the line of view, IMO it wont be long before it is tested in court.
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Technically it should not be any different. However, the issue may be the size of the screen requires more driver attention which contributes to inattentiveness. There is also the fact that some people do not have their phone mounted on the dash, and instead have it sitting on the centre console. And then there's the insurance company; what's stopping them from denying a claim if they can prove that the phone navigation was being used at the time of the accident, or that the mounting device caused or contributed to the accident or passenger injury?
 
SirRumpole said:
But Tesla ties you to their internet service, you can't chose anyone else (as far as I know).

So they can charge what they like without competition and can keep hiking the rates as much as they want.
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Tesla charge $9.99 per month for the Premium system. which includes internet.

owners do not have to use the Tesla internet, they can use their own Wi-Fi from stationary locations or from their phone.

1658546663542.png
 
JohnDe said:
Technically it should not be any different. However, the issue may be the size of the screen requires more driver attention which contributes to inattentiveness. There is also the fact that some people do not have their phone mounted on the dash, and instead have it sitting on the centre console. And then there's the insurance company; what's stopping them from denying a claim if they can prove that the phone navigation was being used at the time of the accident, or that the mounting device caused or contributed to the accident or passenger injury?
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Using and navigating a central located touch screen brings up the same issues IMO, I'm just surprised it has been allowed, when they make such a song and dance about accidents caused by phone use in cars.
It is only my take on it, but I imagine it will be quite easy for someone to get distracted while concentrating on the touch screen and as a motorbike rider it is a real worry when people aren't watching the road.
 
sptrawler said:
Using and navigating a central located touch screen brings up the same issues IMO, I'm just surprised it has been allowed, when they make such a song and dance about accidents caused by phone use in cars.
It is only my take on it, but I imagine it will be quite easy for someone to get distracted while concentrating on the touch screen and as a motorbike rider it is a real worry when people aren't watching the road.
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True. However, the Tesla safety system monitors the surrounding area and will apply the brakes if there is a chance of impact, including a person or car coming in from the side front. There is also voice recognition, which requires no screen input.


Automatic Emergency Braking
Can detect vehicles, pedestrians or objects in front of you and applies the brakes to mitigate impact


Forward Collision Warning
Provides visual and audible warnings of impending collisions with vehicles or obstacles


Blind Spot Collision Warning
Warns when a possible collision is detected with a vehicle or obstacle in your blind spot


Lane Departure Avoidance
Applies corrective lane-centering steering if a potential collision or unintended lane departure is detected
 
JohnDe said:
True. However, the Tesla safety system monitors the surrounding area and will apply the brakes if there is a chance of impact, including a person or car coming in from the side front. There is also voice recognition, which requires no screen input.


Automatic Emergency Braking
Can detect vehicles, pedestrians or objects in front of you and applies the brakes to mitigate impact


Forward Collision Warning
Provides visual and audible warnings of impending collisions with vehicles or obstacles


Blind Spot Collision Warning
Warns when a possible collision is detected with a vehicle or obstacle in your blind spot


Lane Departure Avoidance
Applies corrective lane-centering steering if a potential collision or unintended lane departure is detected
Click to expand...
There is nothing wrong with technology, maybe when I get hit up the ar$e, the person will use your list of safety systems to explain why it was my fault.:roflmao:
That's the thing today, it is always someone else's fault, so the technology should fit in well.:xyxthumbs
 
SirRumpole said:
But Tesla ties you to their internet service, you can't chose anyone else (as far as I know).

So they can charge what they like without competition and can keep hiking the rates as much as they want.
Click to expand...
It is very cheap though, the basic level is free and the premium is only $9 per month, I don’t think they are charging anything much over cost price, Because it includes a Spotify subscription which itself is normally more than $9 per month.

I actually get mine free though as a bonus of being an early adopter,
 
sptrawler said:
That isn't correct, they are forcing you to use their propriety software, when you may not want to, for example I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee the navigation software is rubbish, so I changed the head unit to an android auto compatible unit and use third party software.
If as in the case of Tesla, the central control device controls everything, the option of changing the unit isn't available to me.
It would be like buying a mobile phone from Telstra and only being able to use Telstra apps.
Click to expand...
The navigation and the internet required to run it is free with Tesla, you don’t need the premium package for the navigation to work.

The Jeep navigation was probably rubbish because it wasn’t connected to the internet, so didn’t update or have live information.
 
Value Collector said:
The navigation and the internet required to run it is free with Tesla, you don’t need the premium package for the navigation to work.

The Jeep navigation was probably rubbish because it wasn’t connected to the internet, so didn’t update or have live information.
Click to expand...
The issue isn't about whether the navigation is any good or not, as long as the car can run third party software it isn't a problem, as I said they should not be able to make your access like bluetooth etc a subscription item as that will force you to have to use their navigation system.
It is all well and good while Tesla is working well and leading the pack, but if Tesla finds itself in difficulty at a later date same as most companies do, the subscription and propriety software may turn to slush.
It is just that we are so keen to give away our ability to chose what we want and so keen to accept what we are told these days, that who knows where all this ends.
It is like free to air T.V, has become live and free and then will become pay as you go, the really weird bit is we the taxpayers funded the infrastructure, for the telco's and t.v networks to be able to bring about free t.v's demise.
It is just the way of the world today, we cheer on the fact we can pay for something, that we previously received for free. The new wave snobbery, look at me I can afford to pay for something I used to receive with the car aren't I special. ?
Interesting times ahead, that's for sure.
 
sptrawler said:
The issue isn't about whether the navigation is any good or not, as long as the car can run third party software it isn't a problem, as I said they should not be able to make your access like bluetooth etc a subscription item as that will force you to have to use their navigation system.
It is all well and good while Tesla is working well and leading the pack, but if Tesla finds itself in difficulty at a later date same as most companies do, the subscription and propriety software may turn to slush.
It is just that we are so keen to give away our ability to chose what we want and so keen to accept what we are told these days, that who knows where all this ends. It is like free to air T.V, has become live and free and then will become pay as you go, the really weird bit is we the taxpayers funded the infrastructure, for the telco's and t.v networks to be able to bring about free t.v's demise.
It is just the way of the world today.
Click to expand...

There’s is no subscription for any Bluetooth.

Remember the first car Sat Navigation systems, the ones which could only be updated by purchasing a CDROM for $200 - $400? Which was a lot of money back then, and was probably already out of date due to continual road changes & housing developments.

With a subscription service the system is always up to date and improved.

What if Tesla go broke? What if it? What happens if your phone maker goes broke? Look at what happened when Holden shut the doors, usually there’s a time frame and a support service.

I hate paying subscriptions, but these days everything is going that way. And since I was forced that way by Microsoft several years ago I have found it easier than the old CD days. Updates are automatic, I can log into any computer or phone in any location in the world & use it.
 
sptrawler said:
The issue isn't about whether the navigation is any good or not, as long as the car can run third party software it isn't a problem, as I said they should not be able to make your access like bluetooth etc a subscription item as that will force you to have to use their navigation system.
It is all well and good while Tesla is working well and leading the pack, but if Tesla finds itself in difficulty at a later date same as most companies do, the subscription and propriety software may turn to slush.
It is just that we are so keen to give away our ability to chose what we want and so keen to accept what we are told these days, that who knows where all this ends.
It is like free to air T.V, has become live and free and then will become pay as you go, the really weird bit is we the taxpayers funded the infrastructure, for the telco's and t.v networks to be able to bring about free t.v's demise.
It is just the way of the world today, we cheer on the fact we can pay for something, that we previously received for free. The new wave snobbery, look at me I can afford to pay for something I used to receive with the car aren't I special. ?
Interesting times ahead, that's for sure.
Click to expand...
They haven’t suggested any of the basic features of the car will be part of the subscription, they even include a basic internet connection for free, it’s only the premium internet access and advanced self driving features which you used to have to pay $10k upfront for that are becoming a subscription.

It’s just a simple fact that the self driving function is costing many millions of $$$ to develop and will require consistent ongoing expense to maintain and continue to develop it.

But not everyone wants the self driving, so it’s sold as an extra which you can subscribe too, as I said they have been selling it for $10k up front, but I guess the market prefers a subscription.
 
Value Collector said:
They haven’t suggested any of the basic features of the car will be part of the subscription, they even include a basic internet connection for free, it’s only the premium internet access and advanced self driving features which you used to have to pay $10k upfront for that are becoming a subscription.
Click to expand...
It will be interesting to see if all the manufacturers follow the BMW, Tesla model, I guess they will, unless it affects sales numbers.
www.drive.com.au

Tesla makes navigation a monthly subscription after first eight years

New Tesla orders no longer come with lifetime access to satellite navigation. Instead, it forms part of a monthly subscription eight years after taking delivery.
www.drive.com.au www.drive.com.au
From the article:
Instead, the Standard Connectivity package – which includes satellite navigation, Bluetooth, playback via a USB drive, and FM radio – will expire after eight years from the date of delivery, and become an optional extra.

Tesla does not say whether basic functions such as Bluetooth and FM radio will be deleted once the free Standard Connectivity subscription ends after eight years. However, Tesla does say certain navigation functions will be removed.

"Without Standard Connectivity, access to some connectivity features, including those that use cellular data or third-party licenses, may be changed or removed.

The Standard Connectivity subscription also applies to used vehicles purchased (or transferred ownership) after 20 July 2022, available for the remainder of the eight years after they are "put into service... as a demonstrator or service vehicle", or "delivered as new", whichever comes first.
 
Hyundai to make a small city E.V for European market, I think a lot of makers will follow this trend, city commuters seem like the obvious big growth market for E.V's IMO.

electrek.co

Hyundai plans a new small electric car for less than $20,000

Hyundai has confirmed that it joined the race to build a new small electric car for less than $20,000. However, it sounds like only European markets might get access to it. One of the biggest complaints about electric vehicles remains their prices. They are unattainable for most consumers, even...
electrek.co electrek.co
 
sptrawler said:
It will be interesting to see if all the manufacturers follow the BMW, Tesla model, I guess they will, unless it affects sales numbers.
www.drive.com.au

Tesla makes navigation a monthly subscription after first eight years

New Tesla orders no longer come with lifetime access to satellite navigation. Instead, it forms part of a monthly subscription eight years after taking delivery.
www.drive.com.au www.drive.com.au
From the article:
Instead, the Standard Connectivity package – which includes satellite navigation, Bluetooth, playback via a USB drive, and FM radio – will expire after eight years from the date of delivery, and become an optional extra.

Tesla does not say whether basic functions such as Bluetooth and FM radio will be deleted once the free Standard Connectivity subscription ends after eight years. However, Tesla does say certain navigation functions will be removed.

"Without Standard Connectivity, access to some connectivity features, including those that use cellular data or third-party licenses, may be changed or removed.

The Standard Connectivity subscription also applies to used vehicles purchased (or transferred ownership) after 20 July 2022, available for the remainder of the eight years after they are "put into service... as a demonstrator or service vehicle", or "delivered as new", whichever comes first.
Click to expand...
Considering that the premium connectivity package is only $9 per month, I guess the standard will be pretty cheap, and if you get the first 8 years free you can’t really complain I guess.

But even if you decide to not pay the few dollars for your standard connectivity after 8 years, then I guess your car is just going to be the same as all the other cars in the world that don’t have internet connections.

Obviously as they said some navigation features will be disabled, for example live traffic up dates, weather info, supercharger availability etc all need the internet to work, but your standard navigation like every other car will work.
 
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