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Electric cars?

Would you buy an electric car?

  • Already own one

    Votes: 10 5.1%
  • Yes - would definitely buy

    Votes: 43 21.7%
  • Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    Votes: 78 39.4%
  • Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    Votes: 38 19.2%
  • No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    Votes: 25 12.6%
  • No - would never buy one

    Votes: 14 7.1%

  • Total voters
    198

That depends on the weather doesn't it ?

The last few weeks have shown that we can't depend on solar all the time and there really isn't enough storage to make up for droughts of more than a few hours.

Graphs posted by @Smurf1976 shows how still dependent we are on coal.
 
We will be depended on coal for a while, but it will have a steady decline and be replaced by wind, solar and hydro that is backed up by Gas, pumped hydro and batteries.

As I wrote above, one of the big blockers of new renewable infrastructure is the fear that they won’t be able to sell their electricity profitably, but as I said more demand during off peak times greatly assists that and does the existence of storage like batteries and pumped hydro and off course the ability to back up with gas.

As demand grows, people will build the supply, there is a lot of cash out there looking for a home.
 
Write now as I type this it is 10.50pm on the east coast of Australia, and both Victoria and SA have negative spot electricity prices because it’s a low demand time and they are producing a lot of wind.

This discourages wind producers, because they want to be able to sell their electricity at a decent price not give it away, if there was more cars charging in Victoria right now if would be great for the grid, and the wind generation companies.

Today in the middle of the day it was Queensland that had prices go negative due to it being sunny.

Off peak and Smart charging is going to be a massive incentive to producers.

You can see in the flow chart SA and VIC are trying to export as much as they can to NSW and TAS but the transmission lines linking the states are maxed out.

Brown and black are coal
Green is wind
Red is natural gas
Blue is hydro



 
The simplest way to look at charging EV's and the "big picture" effects is:

Charging it during the electricity demand peak = a real, actual problem that requires serious $ to be spent to accommodate it. Since it's largely unnecessary anyway, it makes little sense to do so beyond the extent it's actually needed.

Charging at any time other than the peak = no actual problem and in most cases still an overall efficiency improvement in fuel use even if the generation source is fossil fuel.

Charging using renewable energy that would otherwise be curtailed = the ideal outcome. Not always practical, but the best scenario to be putting to use a resource that's otherwise being wasted.

What we ideally need is a "smart" approach that gives users the option and incentivises the desirable one but does so in a manner that's simple for consumers and which gives them what they need.

For some users it's no problem to just leave the car plugged in and have it charge automatically when spare renewable energy is available. If they're only using 10% of the battery's capacity each day then it's just not an issue that it didn't charge on Tuesday - Thursday nights when the wind wasn't blowing. Just doesn't matter in that scenario and that's a lot of consumers indeed it's the average one.

I'll note also that via the (completely artificial but very real) petrol price cycle which occurs in Australia's major cities, many drivers have already been conditioned to the idea of refuelling not on a daily basis or even just when the tank's getting low but rather, when the price is low.

As a clarification for those not in the major cities who are perhaps unaware, petrol prices do change dramatically in the cities, movements of 50 cents per litre are not uncommon, for no particular reason in terms of supply or even commodity prices. That's a somewhat illogical situation but it's a real one, it exists throughout many of Australia's cities, and has lead to many drivers intentionally buying when the price is down rather than waiting until they actually need more fuel.

That basic approach is extremely similar to the concept of charging an EV when there's abundant renewable energy with which to do so. It's filling up when it's cheap, not because you actually need it right now and not doing it daily either.

For other users they need it fully charged by tomorrow morning regardless, but no problem if it doesn't do it until midnight or whatever the best time happens to be. Just so long as it's full at 7am all will be fine.

For a minority they actually do need it to start charging right now at maximum rate no matter what.

What's needed is a simple way to automate that for consumer use bearing in mind that whilst most will go along with a "do the right thing" approach, especially if they're saving money by doing so, the overwhelming majority of the population has no particular interest in or knowledge of the workings of power supply. They want it to work and that's it, it just works. Charging the car economically has appeal but they're not going to be checking the AEMO website every time they park the car. It's an obvious area for automation to address. It's not a reason to not use EV's in the first place.

So in summary there's really two issues - avoiding actual problems (peak demand) but beyond that it's about optimising for economics and environment given that by its very nature of being a battery an EV is well suited to that whereas most home and business appliances don't have that flexibility.

 
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The queensland Gov have released their Electric Vehicle strategy.
They will have the usual buyer incentives of 3,000 on vehicles costing up to 58K (including GST).
A $10 million co-fund will support public charging options, in partnership with local government and industry.
Grants are available for up to $3 million.
Government contribution towards fast charging infrastructure are up to 50%.
Part of this policy to replace their entire gov fleet with EV's

Given that the Gov usually turns the vehicle over quickly, it will give a bit of a boost to the used EV market.
However, the caveat is the word "Eligible".
There probably are not too many EV charging points in some of the remote Aboriginal settlements, but there is usually a few state or fed controlled com cars hanging around for the qango's and Public servants which may not fit the "eligible" criteria.
Mick
 
The ACT Government is about to join the no more ICE cars by 2035 bandwagon according to Drive.com.au\
Given that the High court has struck out restrictions on interstate trade, it remains to be seen whether someone could buy an Ice car across the border and bring it in to the ACT successfully.
Unless of course such a banning were to be imposed federally.
Mick
 
It also remains to be seen whether anyone would want to buy an ice car out of state and bring it in, I mean by 2035 ICE cars might be seen in a much different light of by then EV’s have proven to be much better, charging networks rolled out etc etc.

It’s my opinion that by the time these laws start to bite, the decline of the ICE car will be already well advanced.
 
Yea, predicting trends, especially the future, can be a bit problematic. (my apologies to Yoga Berra).
Mick
 
It’s my opinion that by the time these laws start to bite, the decline of the ICE car will be already well advanced.

Let's hope that the manufacturers will have sorted out the supply problems by then.

As usual, Oz will be well down the priority list.
 

The ACT governments have always been special. Sometimes they forget that they are a Territory and think that they govern for all. Oh well, lets see what the rest of the world are doing -

 
 
The down side of high tech over the air upgradability, it sounds as though it wont be long, before they get everyone on the drip feed payment schemes. ?

From the article:
Car makers are among the first cabs off the rank, using software to turn on and off optional extras.

German auto maker BMW is offering "in-car microtransactions" to access options for car buyers in Britain, Korea, Germany, New Zealand and South Africa. A heated steering wheel, for example, has a monthly cost of NZ$20 in New Zealand, and £10 in the UK (both around $18)

Other markets including Australia will soon follow.

In the UK, seven of 13 "digital services" — from heated seats to automatic high beam and driving assistance — are now available in subscription form.
 

Stuff that for a joke what a stupid idea.

Might come out one morning and find you can't start your vehicle because hubby or wifey hasn't renewed the subscription.
 
BMW trying to drop the retail price while they are desperate for cash.

Purchase the car new & you have the options list, choose heated seats & it’s a once off (premium) payment. Change your mind later and it’s a subscription.

It’s more cost effective to build cars with everything pre-installed, rather than having different assembly parts go down the line.
 
BMW trying to drop the retail price while they are desperate for cash.

Purchase the car new & you have the options list, choose heated seats & it’s a once off (premium) payment. Change your mind later and it’s a subscription.
Sounds fine to me, don't need a heated steering wheel in summer!
Actually, I don't think i need a heated steering wheel at all!
Mick
 
Sounds fine to me, don't need a heated steering wheel in summer!
Actually, I don't think i need a heated steering wheel at all!
Mick

It seems that with most of BMW’s owner base.

The traditional theme of vehicle ownership is changing.
 

So if you sell the car and the new owner doesn't want to pay the subscription. BMW comes and rips the seats out ?
 
So if you sell the car and the new owner doesn't want to pay the subscription. BMW comes and rips the seats out ?
No they just make the add on bits non functioning, like heated seats, memory seats, heated steering wheel, memory steering wheel position, auto dimming, auto on headlights, park assist, navigation etc.
Whatever they can make as an electrical convenience item, can be disabled over the wifi connection , then they are like the cars we used to drive.?
 

I doubt it would be too difficult to bypass the wifi and directly connect the bits to a switch, and who would know ?
 
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