Electric cars?

[SirRumpole]

Not to mention that the growth in home batteries will also take away peak hour demand, eg homes with batteries will be drawing zero from the grid during peak times, as they would have a full battery by the time people get home from work and starting cooking.

That depends on the weather doesn't it ?

The last few weeks have shown that we can't depend on solar all the time and there really isn't enough storage to make up for droughts of more than a few hours.

Graphs posted by @Smurf1976 shows how still dependent we are on coal.

 

[Value Collector]

That depends on the weather doesn't it ?

The last few weeks have shown that we can't depend on solar all the time and there really isn't enough storage to make up for droughts of more than a few hours.

Graphs posted by @Smurf1976 shows how still dependent we are on coal.

We will be depended on coal for a while, but it will have a steady decline and be replaced by wind, solar and hydro that is backed up by Gas, pumped hydro and batteries.

As I wrote above, one of the big blockers of new renewable infrastructure is the fear that they won’t be able to sell their electricity profitably, but as I said more demand during off peak times greatly assists that and does the existence of storage like batteries and pumped hydro and off course the ability to back up with gas.

As demand grows, people will build the supply, there is a lot of cash out there looking for a home.

 

[Value Collector]

Write now as I type this it is 10.50pm on the east coast of Australia, and both Victoria and SA have negative spot electricity prices because it’s a low demand time and they are producing a lot of wind.

This discourages wind producers, because they want to be able to sell their electricity at a decent price not give it away, if there was more cars charging in Victoria right now if would be great for the grid, and the wind generation companies.

Today in the middle of the day it was Queensland that had prices go negative due to it being sunny.

Off peak and Smart charging is going to be a massive incentive to producers.

You can see in the flow chart SA and VIC are trying to export as much as they can to NSW and TAS but the transmission lines linking the states are maxed out.

Brown and black are coal
Green is wind
Red is natural gas
Blue is hydro

 

[Smurf1976]

The simplest way to look at charging EV's and the "big picture" effects is:

Charging it during the electricity demand peak = a real, actual problem that requires serious $ to be spent to accommodate it. Since it's largely unnecessary anyway, it makes little sense to do so beyond the extent it's actually needed.

Charging at any time other than the peak = no actual problem and in most cases still an overall efficiency improvement in fuel use even if the generation source is fossil fuel.

Charging using renewable energy that would otherwise be curtailed = the ideal outcome. Not always practical, but the best scenario to be putting to use a resource that's otherwise being wasted.

What we ideally need is a "smart" approach that gives users the option and incentivises the desirable one but does so in a manner that's simple for consumers and which gives them what they need.

For some users it's no problem to just leave the car plugged in and have it charge automatically when spare renewable energy is available. If they're only using 10% of the battery's capacity each day then it's just not an issue that it didn't charge on Tuesday - Thursday nights when the wind wasn't blowing. Just doesn't matter in that scenario and that's a lot of consumers indeed it's the average one.

I'll note also that via the (completely artificial but very real) petrol price cycle which occurs in Australia's major cities, many drivers have already been conditioned to the idea of refuelling not on a daily basis or even just when the tank's getting low but rather, when the price is low.

As a clarification for those not in the major cities who are perhaps unaware, petrol prices do change dramatically in the cities, movements of 50 cents per litre are not uncommon, for no particular reason in terms of supply or even commodity prices. That's a somewhat illogical situation but it's a real one, it exists throughout many of Australia's cities, and has lead to many drivers intentionally buying when the price is down rather than waiting until they actually need more fuel.

That basic approach is extremely similar to the concept of charging an EV when there's abundant renewable energy with which to do so. It's filling up when it's cheap, not because you actually need it right now and not doing it daily either.

For other users they need it fully charged by tomorrow morning regardless, but no problem if it doesn't do it until midnight or whatever the best time happens to be. Just so long as it's full at 7am all will be fine.

For a minority they actually do need it to start charging right now at maximum rate no matter what.

What's needed is a simple way to automate that for consumer use bearing in mind that whilst most will go along with a "do the right thing" approach, especially if they're saving money by doing so, the overwhelming majority of the population has no particular interest in or knowledge of the workings of power supply. They want it to work and that's it, it just works. Charging the car economically has appeal but they're not going to be checking the AEMO website every time they park the car. It's an obvious area for automation to address. It's not a reason to not use EV's in the first place.

So in summary there's really two issues - avoiding actual problems (peak demand) but beyond that it's about optimising for economics and environment given that by its very nature of being a battery an EV is well suited to that whereas most home and business appliances don't have that flexibility.

 

[mullokintyre]

The queensland Gov have released their Electric Vehicle strategy.

On 16 March 2022, the Queensland Government released Queensland's Zero Emission Vehicle Strategy 2022-2032 and the first Zero Emission Vehicle Action Plan 2022-2024.

This strategy is accelerating Queensland toward a cleaner, greener transport future while making sure our energy network supports the transition to zero emission vehicles.

The 10-year strategy reaffirms our commitment to support Queensland's shift to zero net emissions by 2050 through the following targets:

• 50% of new passenger vehicle sales to be zero emission by 2030, moving to 100% by 2036
• 100% of eligible Queensland Government fleet passenger vehicles to be zero emission by 2026
• every new TransLink funded bus added to the fleet to be a zero emission bus from 2025 in South East Queensland and from 2025-2030 across regional Queensland.

They will have the usual buyer incentives of 3,000 on vehicles costing up to 58K (including GST).
A $10 million co-fund will support public charging options, in partnership with local government and industry.
Grants are available for up to $3 million.
Government contribution towards fast charging infrastructure are up to 50%.
Part of this policy to replace their entire gov fleet with EV's

We will replace all eligible government fleet vehicles with electric vehicles as current leases expire and when a suitable alternative is available and appropriate for business needs.

It is expected that there will be at least 288 electric vehicles in the Queensland Government fleet by the end of 2022.

Given that the Gov usually turns the vehicle over quickly, it will give a bit of a boost to the used EV market.
However, the caveat is the word "Eligible".
There probably are not too many EV charging points in some of the remote Aboriginal settlements, but there is usually a few state or fed controlled com cars hanging around for the qango's and Public servants which may not fit the "eligible" criteria.
Mick

 

[mullokintyre]

The ACT Government is about to join the no more ICE cars by 2035 bandwagon according to Drive.com.au\

Mainstream news outlets The Sydney Morning Herald and The Guardian have reported the ACT Government will later this week release a strategy document detailing a plan for 80 to 90 per cent of 'light vehicle' sales – passenger cars, SUVs and light commercial vehicles such as most utes and vans – to be electric by 2030.
This will reportedly be followed by a move to "phase out" light vehicles in the territory "from 2035" – falling in line with Europe, where the decision was recently taken to ban the sale of new petrol and diesel cars by 2035 (with some caveats).

However, few specific details about the ACT proposal have been released, and whether petrol and diesel new-car sales will be banned by 2035 – or if petrol and diesel cars will start to disappear from showrooms from 2035 (and banned entirely at a later date).

Given that the High court has struck out restrictions on interstate trade, it remains to be seen whether someone could buy an Ice car across the border and bring it in to the ACT successfully.
Unless of course such a banning were to be imposed federally.
Mick

 

[Value Collector]

The ACT Government is about to join the no more ICE cars by 2035 bandwagon according to Drive.com.au\

Given that the High court has struck out restrictions on interstate trade, it remains to be seen whether someone could buy an Ice car across the border and bring it in to the ACT successfully.
Unless of course such a banning were to be imposed federally.
Mick

It also remains to be seen whether anyone would want to buy an ice car out of state and bring it in, I mean by 2035 ICE cars might be seen in a much different light of by then EV’s have proven to be much better, charging networks rolled out etc etc.

It’s my opinion that by the time these laws start to bite, the decline of the ICE car will be already well advanced.

 

[mullokintyre]

It also remains to be seen whether anyone would want to buy an ice car out of state and bring it in, I mean by 2035 ICE cars might be seen in a much different light of by then EV’s have proven to be much better, charging networks rolled out etc etc.

It’s my opinion that by the time these laws start to bite, the decline of the ICE car will be already well advanced.

Yea, predicting trends, especially the future, can be a bit problematic. (my apologies to Yoga Berra).
Mick

 

[SirRumpole]

It’s my opinion that by the time these laws start to bite, the decline of the ICE car will be already well advanced.

Let's hope that the manufacturers will have sorted out the supply problems by then.

As usual, Oz will be well down the priority list.

 

[JohnDe]

The ACT Government is about to join the no more ICE cars by 2035 bandwagon according to Drive.com.au\

Given that the High court has struck out restrictions on interstate trade, it remains to be seen whether someone could buy an Ice car across the border and bring it in to the ACT successfully.
Unless of course such a banning were to be imposed federally.
Mick

The ACT governments have always been special. Sometimes they forget that they are a Territory and think that they govern for all. Oh well, lets see what the rest of the world are doing -

 

[JohnDe]

Queensland's electric vehicle charging network to extend west along Flinders Highway

Electric vehicles could soon be heading west as phase three of Queensland's Electric Super Highway is rolled out.

Transport Minister Mark Bailey said the first of 24 new charging stations in Queensland will be completed in Kingaroy next month.

"Then we'll see others in places like Longreach, all the way along the Flinders Highway out to Mount Isa, all the way along the Capricorn through Barcaldine, Longreach, Winton," he said.

"We'll see Cunnamulla, we'll see Blackall, we'll see Emerald, we'll see Dingo, all these different places over the next 12 months will have an electric vehicle charging station."

Charging stations are already available from Coolangatta to Cairns.

"That's such a really exciting thing to see such a vast state like Queensland being able to cover electric vehicles," Mr Bailey said.

It coincides with the state reaching a new milestone of 10,000 registered electric vehicles, almost double the number recorded in 2017.

That number is expected to rise as more motorists take advantage of the state government's $3,000 rebate on six eligible models:

• MG ZS EV Essence
• BYD Atto 3
• Hyundai Ioniq
• Nissan Leaf
• Hyundai Kona
• Mini Cooper SE

Rebates aren't available for hybrid electric vehicles or second-hand vehicles, though the government expects the second-hand EV market to grow as more cars enter the country.


Emerald is on the list of Queensland towns to receive an EV charging station.(ABC Capricornia: Alice Roberts)

Australia has been slow to take up EVs compared to other countries as the world tries to lower global emissions. But recent rises in petrol prices have inspired some motorists to consider EV options, as they try to lower their own carbon footprint.

Energy Minister Mick de Brenni said Queensland's EV rebate is about offering Queenslanders a choice.

"Motorists are seeing the rising costs of liquid fuels and global supply challenges mean it's more important than ever to give that choice to switch to an electric vehicle."

According to the Electric Vehicle Council, it costs about $4 per 100 kilometres to power an average electric car compared to about $14 per 100 kilometres for a standard petrol-fuelled vehicle.


Queensland has electric vehicle recharging stations from Coolangatta to Cairns but few options away from the coast.(ABC Radio Perth: Emma Wynne)

Mr de Brenni said the state government predicts 50 per cent of new car sales will be electric by 2030.

"We're going to support that by making sure that we have the energy system that can support the charging and getting those renewable electrons from our solar farms, from our wind farms into motorists' cars."

 

[Value Collector]

Yea, predicting trends, especially the future, can be a bit problematic. (my apologies to Yoga Berra).
Mick

Yea, but the “future ain’t what it used to be” Yogi Berra

 

[sptrawler]

The down side of high tech over the air upgradability, it sounds as though it wont be long, before they get everyone on the drip feed payment schemes. ?

From $20 heated steering wheels to fancy exercise bike classes, beware the pitfalls of over-subscribing

With news BMW is offering subscriptions for features like heated steering wheels, customers might fear the "microtransactions" model is meant to gouge them. But that's not really the end game for sellers, writes Louise Grimmer.

www.abc.net.au

From the article:
Car makers are among the first cabs off the rank, using software to turn on and off optional extras.

German auto maker BMW is offering "in-car microtransactions" to access options for car buyers in Britain, Korea, Germany, New Zealand and South Africa. A heated steering wheel, for example, has a monthly cost of NZ$20 in New Zealand, and £10 in the UK (both around $18)

Other markets including Australia will soon follow.

In the UK, seven of 13 "digital services" — from heated seats to automatic high beam and driving assistance — are now available in subscription form.

 

[SirRumpole]

The down side of high tech over the air upgradability, it sounds as though it wont be long, before they get everyone on the drip feed payment schemes. ?

From $20 heated steering wheels to fancy exercise bike classes, beware the pitfalls of over-subscribing

With news BMW is offering subscriptions for features like heated steering wheels, customers might fear the "microtransactions" model is meant to gouge them. But that's not really the end game for sellers, writes Louise Grimmer.

www.abc.net.au

From the article:
Car makers are among the first cabs off the rank, using software to turn on and off optional extras.

German auto maker BMW is offering "in-car microtransactions" to access options for car buyers in Britain, Korea, Germany, New Zealand and South Africa. A heated steering wheel, for example, has a monthly cost of NZ$20 in New Zealand, and £10 in the UK (both around $18)

Other markets including Australia will soon follow.

In the UK, seven of 13 "digital services" — from heated seats to automatic high beam and driving assistance — are now available in subscription form.

Stuff that for a joke what a stupid idea.

Might come out one morning and find you can't start your vehicle because hubby or wifey hasn't renewed the subscription.

 

[JohnDe]

BMW trying to drop the retail price while they are desperate for cash.

Purchase the car new & you have the options list, choose heated seats & it’s a once off (premium) payment. Change your mind later and it’s a subscription.

It’s more cost effective to build cars with everything pre-installed, rather than having different assembly parts go down the line.

 

[mullokintyre]

BMW trying to drop the retail price while they are desperate for cash.

Purchase the car new & you have the options list, choose heated seats & it’s a once off (premium) payment. Change your mind later and it’s a subscription.

Sounds fine to me, don't need a heated steering wheel in summer!
Actually, I don't think i need a heated steering wheel at all!
Mick

 

[JohnDe]

Sounds fine to me, don't need a heated steering wheel in summer!
Actually, I don't think i need a heated steering wheel at all!
Mick

It seems that with most of BMW’s owner base.

The traditional theme of vehicle ownership is changing.

 

[SirRumpole]

BMW trying to drop the retail price while they are desperate for cash.

Purchase the car new & you have the options list, choose heated seats & it’s a once off (premium) payment. Change your mind later and it’s a subscription.

It’s more cost effective to build cars with everything pre-installed, rather than having different assembly parts go down the line.

So if you sell the car and the new owner doesn't want to pay the subscription. BMW comes and rips the seats out ?

 

[sptrawler]

So if you sell the car and the new owner doesn't want to pay the subscription. BMW comes and rips the seats out ?

No they just make the add on bits non functioning, like heated seats, memory seats, heated steering wheel, memory steering wheel position, auto dimming, auto on headlights, park assist, navigation etc.
Whatever they can make as an electrical convenience item, can be disabled over the wifi connection , then they are like the cars we used to drive.?

 

[SirRumpole]

No they just make the add on bits non functioning, like heated seats, memory seats, heated steering wheel, memory steering wheel position, auto dimming, auto on headlights, park assist, navigation etc.
Whatever they can make as an electrical convenience item, can be disabled over the wifi connection , then they are like the cars we used to drive.?

I doubt it would be too difficult to bypass the wifi and directly connect the bits to a switch, and who would know ?