Electric cars?

[mullokintyre]

Ford have announced that the ubiquitous F150 is coming back to Australia.
Unfortunately, its the ICE version, not the EV Lightning Version.
From Unsealed 4x4

The public has been asking ‘when’ for years and we finally have an answer. Ford has officially announced that the F150 will be available in Australian showrooms by mid-2023 through a right-hand drive, local remanufacturing program with engineering specialists, RMA Automotive.
President and CEO of Ford Australia and New Zealand, Andrew Birkic said, “We’ve listened hard to fans and dealers and found a way to bring F150 to Australia. As the pinnacle of ‘Built Ford Tough’, it will give our customers even more choice when they’re in the market for a pick-up. We just can’t wait to unleash it.”

“F150 has been part of F-Series, America’s best-selling vehicle line for the past 40 years, with more than 40 million F-Series Trucks produced to date. With such a local fan base, and with full-size truck sales in Australia tripling in recent years, we just knew we had to find a way to bring it back to Australia.”

It looks more like the case of the US using all the last of the ICE F150 bits to build cars and dump them in OZ while they ramp up the lightning version production.
You can pick up an ICE version of the F150 without a lot of trouble, but there is at least 9 month wait for the EV version.
Extremely disappointing, as the reviews of the F150 lightning seem to indicate its a better vehicle than the Rivian.
Mick

 

[rederob]

If the graphic below comes to fruition by 2029, then most US legacy automakers will have gone broke:
It would also meant that European automakers will dominate US vehicle sales. Unless of course Americans will continue to be happy to pay over $4/gallon for their "gas" (petrol).
I think their Asia data is a bit off. China already has over 25% EV penetration, and this is likely to hit 30% before the year ends as ICE sales have plummeted. On the other hand, Japan will likely remain an ICEV stronghold, while Korea's successes with their Ioniq series and Kia's EV6s should see them pivot more quickly to EVs as they cannot come close to meeting demand. China, is already looking at building EV model production lines in other Asian countries and, with clean air being a major impetus, there will be strong national imperatives to move away from ICEVs.
Sadly we see zero for Australia, and that to me represents a missed opportunity to use our favourable "green" natural resource base for other than mineral exports. Maybe we could have done a deal with Tesla to build Cybertrucks locally, given we could probably sells tens of thousands here annually, and have a population base of over 3B just north of us to sell into.

 

[JohnDe]

Ford have announced that the ubiquitous F150 is coming back to Australia.
Unfortunately, its the ICE version, not the EV Lightning Version.
From Unsealed 4x4

It looks more like the case of the US using all the last of the ICE F150 bits to build cars and dump them in OZ while they ramp up the lightning version production.
You can pick up an ICE version of the F150 without a lot of trouble, but there is at least 9 month wait for the EV version.
Extremely disappointing, as the reviews of the F150 lightning seem to indicate its a better vehicle than the Rivian.
Mick

Ford have two problems, first is the that they have a massive amount of F truck stock assembled waiting on computer chip sets. Look at the sales numbers for 2021, Covid stopped some production but plenty F trucks were built with the hope that electronics would come soon.

Second problem is Ford's ability to build enough EV F trucks, they don't have the factory capacity (modifications to equipment and structures required), or enough EV materials like batteries and motors. Ford announced that they will build 150,000 EV trucks, for a market that usually soaks up 900,000+ F trucks (USA & Canada).

FORD F SERIES – US – BY YEAR​

Year	sold
2005	901,463
2006	796,039
2007	691,589
2008	515,513
2009	413,625
2010	528,349
2011	584,917
2012	692,589
2013	764,402
2014	753,851
2015	780,354
2016	820,799
2017	896,764
2018	909,330
2019	896,526
2020	787,372
2021	726,003
2022	192,218

FORD F SERIES – CANADA – BY YEAR​

Year	Total
2012	106,358
2013	120,219
2014	126,277
2015	118,837
2016	145,409
2017	155,290
2018	145,694
2019	145,210
2020	128,650
2021	116,402

​

FULL SPEED AHEAD: FORD PLANNING TO NEARLY DOUBLE ALL-ELECTRIC F-150 LIGHTNING PRODUCTION TO 150,000 UNITS ANNUALLY; FIRST WAVE OF RESERVATION HOLDERS INVITED TO ORDER​

 

[sptrawler]

@JohnDe I don't hold out much hope for more infrastructure in the bush, but there may be hope for the removal of the luxury car tax from the Porsche Taycan.

 

[mullokintyre]

Ford have two problems, first is the that they have a massive amount of F truck stock assembled waiting on computer chip sets. Look at the sales numbers for 2021, Covid stopped some production but plenty F trucks were built with the hope that electronics would come soon.

Second problem is Ford's ability to build enough EV F trucks, they don't have the factory capacity (modifications to equipment and structures required), or enough EV materials like batteries and motors. Ford announced that they will build 150,000 EV trucks, for a market that usually soaks up 900,000+ F trucks (USA & Canada).

FORD F SERIES – US – BY YEAR​

Year	sold
2005	901,463
2006	796,039
2007	691,589
2008	515,513
2009	413,625
2010	528,349
2011	584,917
2012	692,589
2013	764,402
2014	753,851
2015	780,354
2016	820,799
2017	896,764
2018	909,330
2019	896,526
2020	787,372
2021	726,003
2022	192,218

FORD F SERIES – CANADA – BY YEAR​

Year	Total
2012	106,358
2013	120,219
2014	126,277
2015	118,837
2016	145,409
2017	155,290
2018	145,694
2019	145,210
2020	128,650
2021	116,402

​

FULL SPEED AHEAD: FORD PLANNING TO NEARLY DOUBLE ALL-ELECTRIC F-150 LIGHTNING PRODUCTION TO 150,000 UNITS ANNUALLY; FIRST WAVE OF RESERVATION HOLDERS INVITED TO ORDER​

Well, at tleast Ford is producing and delivering F150 lightnings, which is more than we can say for the tesla cybertruck.
Mick

 

[JohnDe]

Well, at tleast Ford is producing and delivering F150 lightnings, which is more than we can say for the tesla cybertruck.
Mick

I would hope so. With the F series being Fords No.1 product, they'd be bankrupt without it.

November 2021 -

https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America/US/2021/12/02/ford-sales-21-november.pdf

 

[sptrawler]

Hyundai Enters $5.54B Agreement to Build EV and Battery Plant in Georgia By Investing.com

Hyundai Enters $5.54B Agreement to Build EV and Battery Plant in Georgia

au.investing.com

Hyundai Motors (OTC:HYMLY) announced today that the company has entered into an agreement with the state of Georgia to build its first dedicated full electric vehicle and battery manufacturing facility in the country.

A signing ceremony was held at the sight of the future factory near Savannah. Governor Brian Kemp, along with company officials, outlined plans for the factory’s operations on the nearly 3,000-acre property. Hyundai will invest $5.54 Billion into the project with plans to employ about 8,100 people at the plant.
As part of the company’s plans to invest $7.4 billion to expand electric vehicles in the U.S. by 2025, Hyundai officials said that they plan to break ground on the facility in 2023 with plans to begin production by 2025. Plans show that the factory will have the capacity to build 300,000 vehicles per year.

Hyundai will also build batteries on site with a joint venture partner that will be announced later.

 

[rederob]

Labor lost some seats as their climate change and EV policies were mediocre to crap, compared to just crap for the Coalition.
So here's part of Labor's EV policy:

Labor will exempt many electric cars from:​

• Import tariffs – a 5 per cent tax on some imported electric cars; and
• Fringe benefits tax – a 47 per cent tax on electric cars that are provided through work for private use.

These exemptions will be available to all electric cars below the luxury car tax threshold for fuel efficient vehicles ($77,565 in 2020-21).​

The first thing wrong with this policy is nothing to do with it! That is, there is no need for a policy to encourage EV take up when supply cannot meet demand, as all readers at this site are aware.
The next problem is that no EVs are priced under $45K at present, so all we are doing is foregoing taxes to reduce the price of already expensive cars for individual buyers who can afford them anyway, and add to missed taxes by propping up businesses who package EVS to employees by exempting them from FBT.

So the obvious first step is to encourage the importation of much cheaper EVs, plus make them more affordable to most Australians. Given the average price of a sedan in Australia is around $45K then we should probably look at $50k as the cut-off for all EV exemptions and leave the complicating luxury car tax out of it. I'm only suggesting $50K price point as the EV battery pack presently makes comparable EVs more expensive than ICEVs and we also know that MG's EV and the Atto 3 are in this ballpark and would be reasonable family cars. The point here is that there are lots of other European and Chinese models that are potential candidates with the right settings in place.

The next step is make these EVs more affordable to people who don't earn much. A simple policy fix is to exempt the GST component for purchasers with a taxable income of less than $50K in the previous year. I chose $50 based on the the ATO's median taxable income data and the fact that it would help redress the earnings imbalance between men and women:

In the short term my ideas would have minimal draw on the federal purse, but they would give a strong signal to EV manufacturers that there was a new target market with potential sales of hundreds of thousands of units annually that could be quickly tapped. That would make RHD production lines cost effective for manufacturers and deliver us the EVs we need to reach any semblance of parity with other developed nations.

While Labor's FBT exemption might work where supply is not an issue, in the current environment it's as useful as a sunroof on a motorbike.

 

[rederob]

I hoped this article from The Driven would live up to its headline:

What will Labor’s promised electric vehicle policy deliver for drivers?​

Instead it mostly focuses on the issue of vehicle emission standards which were previously covered in this thread, and explains why we get the EV dregs from legacy automakers.

On the plus side the incoming Energy and Climate Change Minister, Chris Bowen, actually drives a Model 3, so at least we will have someone at the helm who has a first hand appreciation of ownership issues.

 

[JohnDe]

This article might be of interest to those on here, who have recently bought a Tesla model 3.

2021-2022 Tesla Model 3 recalled in Australia

A fault could cause the onboard computer to fail, according to the manufacturer.

www.drive.com.au

Recall completed, without leaving home.

"Tesla's recent updates follow on from a recent roll-out to prevent a fault with the Model 3 where its infotainment system's central processing unit (CPU) would overheat while the vehicle was being fast-charged, with the issue rectified via another over-the-air update."

Tesla update adds improved driving range calculations based on weather forecasts​

The latest over-the-air update allows Tesla's models to provide more accurate driving range estimations with weather information​

Tesla is rolling out its latest over-the-air update to its Australian models, boasting a new feature which provides more accurate driving range calculations.

The newest Tesla update (2022.16.0.2) adds Navigation Energy Prediction, a function which gives drivers a more realistic calculation of the vehicle's driving range when using online navigation by incorporating forecasted crosswind, headwind, humidity, and ambient temperature information.

First discovered by Teslascope, the update was first noted on a Model 3 in New South Wales before popping up across the expanded range of Model S and Model Xs around the world.



The update also introduces new capabilities within the vehicle's driver profiles, with media player accounts, such as Spotify, now featuring the ability to be linked to individual drivers.

Tesla's recent updates follow on from a recent roll-out to prevent a fault with the Model 3 where its infotainment system's central processing unit (CPU) would overheat while the vehicle was being fast-charged, with the issue rectified via another over-the-air update.

Despite its position as the most popular electric vehicle in Australia last year, Tesla is currently facing the prospect of no more vehicle deliveries until the start of July, owing to a number of supply chain issues including shutdowns at its Chinese plant thanks to ongoing lockdowns in Shanghai.

Tesla update adds improved driving range calculations based on weather forecasts

The latest over-the-air update allows Tesla's models to provide more accurate driving range estimations with weather information

www.whichcar.com.au

 

[sptrawler]

I hoped this article from The Driven would live up to its headline:

What will Labor’s promised electric vehicle policy deliver for drivers?​

Instead it mostly focuses on the issue of vehicle emission standards which were previously covered in this thread, and explains why we get the EV dregs from legacy automakers.

On the plus side the incoming Energy and Climate Change Minister, Chris Bowen, actually drives a Model 3, so at least we will have someone at the helm who has a first hand appreciation of ownership issues.

Time will tell.
Have you had any update on the BYD? I still don't have a VIN for the Hyundai.

 

[qldfrog]

Any person here done any search for cheap hybrid plugin?
Basically 40km or so on electric that i can charge at home on PV, for daily run but able to run on petrol gor longuer run
Pure EV not $ worth at this stage but wondering about a min8mual battery option now that the watermelon are in.

 

[rederob]

Time will tell.

Given the tariff for EVs from China became zero as a result of our 2015 FTA there will be zero benefit to the majority of EV buyers in Australia, so time has already tolled on that one.
Your Kona is made in Europe, so you are likely to get it for even less after July 1 2022.
If Labor was serious about making EVs more affordable for those less well off, then they could have knocked off the GST for EVs landed below an "affordable" price, say $35K. Again, I know nothing is yet available in this price range, but it's signal setting for supply which does exist but remains to be earmarked for export to Australia:

Have you had any update on the BYD? I still don't have a VIN for the Hyundai.

Not yet, but there's no change to July as my delivery month - legs crossed.
I noticed BYD's Seal got over 22000 pre-orders in China in a matter of hours last week, and that 's equal to about 3 months of their proposed production schedule:

It's seen as a Tesla competitor, as noted below with USD prices:

 

[sptrawler]

Any person here done any search for cheap hybrid plugin?
Basically 40km or so on electric that i can charge at home on PV, for daily run but able to run on petrol gor longuer run
Pure EV not $ worth at this stage but wondering about a min8mual battery option now that the watermelon are in.

I looked into PHEV's before deciding on the full E.V, the best value for money one seemed to be the recently superseded Mitsubishi Outlander, the 2020 model had a 13.8kWh battery earlier ones had the 12kWh. The Eclipse Cross uses the same battery and running gear, but is a smaller car. They should realistically get 40-50k's on a charge.

The new Mitsubishi Outlander is getting a 20kWh battery and is due very soon, that should be good for about 80k's.
My guess is it wont be much cheaper than a pure E.V, that's what made me decide on the Hyundai Kona extended range E.V. But I also am retired and not overly dependent on the car, so I guess it depends on your personal circumstances.

 

[qldfrog]

I looked into PHEV's before deciding on the full E.V, the best value for money one seemed to be the recently superseded Mitsubishi Outlander, the 2020 model had a 13.8kWh battery earlier ones had the 12kWh. The Eclipse Cross uses the same battery and running gear, but is a smaller car. They should realistically get 40-50k's on a charge.

The new Mitsubishi Outlander is getting a 20kWh battery and is due very soon, that should be good for about 80k's.
My guess is it wont be much cheaper than a pure E.V, that's what made me decide on the Hyundai Kona extended range E.V. But I also am retired and not overly dependent on the car, so I guess it depends on your personal circumstances.

Really make no sense to spend 80k..cheapest i found above 50k to do 20km a day for a post office and basic shopping..i need a runabout in ev or plug in hybrid..not available yet?
Maybe an old Leaf but then if battery is dead..ish, will do 50km but consume as much power as 300km?
I though electric scooter but this is australia so price and regulations make it a no go i think
Would have been my go to in China for that purpose..but we are not in China...

 

[sptrawler]

Really make no sense to spend 80k..cheapest i found above 50k to do 20km a day for a post office and basic shopping..i need a runabout in ev or plug in hybrid..not available yet?
Maybe an old Leaf but then if battery is dead..ish, will do 50km but consume as much power as 300km?
I though electric scooter but this is australia so price and regulations make it a no go i think
Would have been my go to in China for that purpose..but we are not in China...

Yes it certainly isn't black and white, a cheap small runaround would probably be the go.
Now the Governments are putting 2.5c/klm surcharge, you would certainly have to do the sums, especially with the price of electricity going up, if you don't have solar it would be touch and go IMO.
We mainly use bicycles/ electric scooters and public transport.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

A mate of mine who used drive taxis says that the Prius is the best for people living in the Regions.

The ICE gets it up n running and then the EV component takes over.

gg

 

[JohnDe]

A mate of mine who used drive taxis says that the Prius is the best for people living in the Regions.

The ICE gets it up n running and then the EV component takes over.

gg

Either he is a lead foot or the battery is on its last legs.

System Performance

Start-Up

When starting up, stopped at intersections and lights, or moving at low speeds, the car is powered solely by the electric drive motor, drawing energy from the hybrid battery through the power control unit. Not only does this save on fuel and result in zero emissions, but the electric drive motor also helps the acceleration process by delivering maximum torque instantly. Call it a win-win situation.

 

[Value Collector]

.

The ICE gets it up n running and then the EV component takes over.

gg

other way around.
I drove one when I was in the USA earlier in the year it works like this,

1, when you first hop in and drive off through the carpark its operating 100% electric (if there is charge in the battery).

2, as you accelerate on and pick up speed above say 20km the petrol engine kicks in and the petrol and electric work together,

3, as you brake the region braking sends power to the battery.

4, as you are cruising along at a steady speed it will regularly switch between electric, petrol or regeneration braking depending on hills etc and depending on battery level.

its quite complex and is regularly switching between the option seamlessly without you doing anything.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Either he is a lead foot or the battery is on its last legs.

other way around.
I drove one when I was in the USA earlier in the year it works like this,

1, when you first hop in and drive off through the carpark its operating 100% electric (if there is charge in the battery).

2, as you accelerate on and pick up speed above say 20km the petrol engine kicks in and the petrol and electric work together,

3, as you brake the region braking sends power to the battery.

4, as you are cruising along at a steady speed it will regularly switch between electric, petrol or regeneration braking depending on hills etc and depending on battery level.

its quite complex and is regularly switching between the option seamlessly without you doing anything.

I am so glad I'm an ASF member.

He repeats this frequently, I know very little about ICE or EV. Even less about Prius.

Thank you both.

I might wager $50 he is wrong next time it comes up.

I still reckon its a better option for us in Regional Australia than an EV.

gg