Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Electric cars?

Would you buy an electric car?

  • Already own one

    Votes: 10 5.1%

  • Yes - would definitely buy

    Votes: 43 21.8%

  • Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    Votes: 78 39.6%

  • Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    Votes: 37 18.8%

  • No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    Votes: 25 12.7%

  • No - would never buy one

    Votes: 14 7.1%
  • Total voters
    197
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Its not all bad news for GM.
They have started shipping their elctric version of the Hummer pickup.
FromCNBC
DETROIT – General Motors is beginning to ship its GMC Hummer EV pickup to customers, marking a major milestone for the automaker and its next-generation electric vehicles.

The new truck is the first to incorporate the Detroit automaker’s Ultium platform, motors and batteries, all of which GM developed in-house and plans to use as the foundation for dozens of new electric vehicles in the coming years.
Click to expand...
I was aware that GM was working on their own EV systems, I was not aware that they had actually started producing them and putting them into vehicles.
Will have to wait until their is some real world experience to see how robust it all is.
But they have at least started delivering to customers.
“We’re very excited for our customers,” GM President Mark Reuss said Friday during an interview with CNBC’s Phil LeBeau during “Squawk on the Street.”

GM is investing about $30 billion into the production and development of electric vehicles such as the Hummer pickup and an upcoming SUV variant of the vehicle through 2025. The company on Friday also confirmed the first deliveries of a new electric commercial delivery van to FedEx.
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2025 is still a fair way off, so its just more vaporware, but the fact that they have started delivering a Van version of the EV platform to FEDEX means that they join Rivian in having the big logistics companies doing their field testing for them.

Rivian has made some huge splashes in the automotive market recently, and this one related to their partner Amazon is by no means the smallest. Deliveries of the Rivian EV van will begin to Amazon this month and offer a new way for both companies to be more profitable.
For Amazon, the electric delivery van or the EDV will offer up to 201-mile (323 km) of all-electric range per charge. It will cut costs in the longer term since it will never require the same type of expensive gasoline fill-ups that ICE vans do. It will also help them save on maintenance costs like oil changes.

For Rivian, it's proof that they can sell and fulfill big corporate fleet orders. Amazon ordered 100,000 of the vans and has an exclusive deal with Rivian through the next four years. The initial deal called for the order to be fulfilled by 2030, but clearly, Rivian seems ahead of schedule.

In fact, they're so far ahead that they've beat every other EV van to market. The Brightdrop EV van from General Motors will start deliveries later this month. The Ford E-Transit is still months away from deliveries. All EDVs have been built at the brand's Normal, IL production facility. In the future, we expect some vans to come out of the new factory that was just announced and will be located in Georgia.
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Be interesting to see which of them come out on top.
Was always surprised that Tesla did not announce a EV Van to compete with the other auto makers in the transport market.
Mick
 
sptrawler said:
@mullokintyre GM are a lot further along the development road, than many think.

techcrunch.com

Cruise launches driverless robotaxi service in San Francisco | TechCrunch

Employees of Cruise, the self-driving subsidiary of General Motors, will be the first to jump inside one of the company's autonomous vehicles that operate
techcrunch.com techcrunch.com
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Yes, fully autonomous driving (ie in a passenger only vehicle) is probably more advanced than many think.
Waymo was the first to begin operating anywhere, and now has Phoenix and San Francisco services.
AutoX was the first platform outside of America, and I think is the only other company able to operate in San Francisco 24/7. But they are growing in China:

Given the lack of care for following road rules in China, AutoX's software was pretty good way back then (for good reason) , so it wasn't a big jump to become the country's only RoboTaxi service.
It a shame there cannot be more and better collaborations between companies on autonomous driving as it's a bit like the countless billions poured into cancer research by every man and his dog rather than a concentration of effort from industry leaders to win the race.
 
sptrawler said:
@mullokintyre GM are a lot further along the development road, than many think.

techcrunch.com

Cruise launches driverless robotaxi service in San Francisco | TechCrunch

Employees of Cruise, the self-driving subsidiary of General Motors, will be the first to jump inside one of the company's autonomous vehicles that operate
techcrunch.com techcrunch.com
Click to expand...

GM has always been one of my favourite vehicle manufactures, I hope they can survive the next 10 years but after the GFC their use of smoke and mirrors increased significantly.

General Motors had US$110.8b of debt at March 2021, down from US$127.0b a year prior. However, it does have US$23.1b in cash offsetting this, leading to net debt of about US$87.7b.
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2021-12-18.png

 
the talk of increased sales of EV'[s in Europe needs to be seen in the context of continued falls in new vehicle registrations overall.
From Zero Hedge
European auto stocks are on watch heading into Friday's cash session in the U.S., after ugly November sales data was released from across the pond.

New registrations plunged 17% in November, marking the fifth month in a row where the region's auto market contracted, according to Bloomberg Friday morning.

New car registrations came in at 864,119, the worst number since the European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association started tracking figures in 1993, the writeup says.
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Its been on a downward trend, the slope of that trend increasing sharply.
Is it possible that who are well off sufficiently that their buying habits are not affected compared to those whose income levels do not reach such lofty heights?
This follows the stats from China that Auto sales have also fallen for the last seven months.
Vehicle sales in China fell for the seventh straight month in November, according to newly released data from the China Association of Automobile Manufacturers (CAAM) on Friday.

Sales were down 9.1% from the year prior as the industry continued to struggle with what is now becoming a year's long semiconductor shortage.

The country posted total sales of 2.52 million vehicles in November, once again led by sales of new energy and electric vehicles, according to Reuters.
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The semi conductor shortage did not seem to stretch to EV's, they must use different chips.
Mick
 
mullokintyre said:
The semi conductor shortage did not seem to stretch to EV's, they must use different chips.
Mick
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more likely they couldn't hit production ( or sales ) projections , not everyone plans to make one billion of one model , so am guessing when the dust clears some will be launching new models to make them appear to be a success
 
divs4ever said:
more likely they couldn't hit production ( or sales ) projections , not everyone plans to make one billion of one model , so am guessing when the dust clears some will be launching new models to make them appear to be a success
Click to expand...
Can you translate this into a sense please.
 
if you pre-order xxx number of chips but only sell ( or make ) xx number of vehicles you still have inventory and many vehicle makers plan to have production changes regularly in coming years ( which might no longer need the current model of chip )

so the 2020 model might already be obsolete as production is being tooled up for the 2022 model
 
According to This Guy there are around 3,000 microchips in todays car models.
if everything is software controlled, you change the software rather than change the chip.
If they they use a lot of hardwired applications, then that would require redesign of boards.
Its a lot easier to change the software.
Mick
 
divs4ever said:
if you pre-order xxx number of chips but only sell ( or make ) xx number of vehicles you still have inventory and many vehicle makers plan to have production changes regularly in coming years ( which might no longer need the current model of chip )

so the 2020 model might already be obsolete as production is being tooled up for the 2022 model
Click to expand...
The car manufacturers could not get enough chips. They didn't have inventory because chip suppliers could not meet demand.
Tesla got hold of some old chips and rewrote firmware. Chinese manufacturers had already been shut out of some supply by US sanctions so had alternative arrangements in place. BYD had its own chip fab so was unaffected.
 
Also, I read some where that some of the ICE car manufactures actually canceled orders for chips (and other parts) during the early stages of the pandemic believing demand would be suppressed for a long time, and when demand came back just a few months later they found them selves at the back of the line, where as Tesla continued its production ramp up and never canceled orders.

But off course a car company born in Silicon Valley will have more ability to rewrite code etc and change things on the fly than Detroit.
 
mullokintyre said:
According to This Guy there are around 3,000 microchips in todays car models.
if everything is software controlled, you change the software rather than change the chip.
If they they use a lot of hardwired applications, then that would require redesign of boards.
Its a lot easier to change the software.
Mick
Click to expand...
that sounds messing and prone to 'glitches '

SoC ( System on a Chip ) has been possible for years ( and the software on a static ram chip )

maybe the problem is too many 'features ' on the vehicle
 
mullokintyre said:
According to This Guy there are around 3,000 microchips in todays car models.
if everything is software controlled, you change the software rather than change the chip.
If they they use a lot of hardwired applications, then that would require redesign of boards.
Its a lot easier to change the software.
Mick
Click to expand...

Like an engine can be designed and build for different purposes; torque for pulling and low speed work, or horse power for high speed, both can be adjusted and used for for other functions, their peak performance will not be achieved but they will be capable of the required work. Chips (processors ) are the same; a graphics chip is designed to be 100% efficient for games, movies, video, photos, editing etc, but the software can be re-written to allow the chip to be used for navigation, audio, etc.

Tesla is lucky enough to have an abundance of talented software gurus that they were able to find chips sets not being used and to rewrite the software for them.

Other companies are now following.

My Tesla may have a graphics chip running the infotainment system, which is 100x more powerful than required.
 
mullokintyre said:
the talk of increased sales of EV'[s in Europe needs to be seen in the context of continued falls in new vehicle registrations overall.
From Zero Hedge

Its been on a downward trend, the slope of that trend increasing sharply.
Is it possible that who are well off sufficiently that their buying habits are not affected compared to those whose income levels do not reach such lofty heights?
This follows the stats from China that Auto sales have also fallen for the last seven months.

The semi conductor shortage did not seem to stretch to EV's, they must use different chips.
Mick
Click to expand...
Just USB shortages, been hearing TEslas shipping without USB ports lol....
 
Another test an assessment of EV's for Police use -

As well as proving itself capable of serving as an emergency vehicle capable of advanced driving techniques and maintaining plenty of driving range, the Model 3’s use as a police car was also apparently well received.

Charging the Model 3 during a shift didn’t impact police operations during the past nine-month trial either, Toozs-Hobson (who travelled with police crews during the trial period) reported. Arriving at a Supercharger with 80 miles (128km) range left, a 20 minute top up of power gave the crew another 6-7 hours worth of driving.

Toozs-Hobson says the trial will continue into 2022 as Tesla continues to work with the National Association of Police Fleet Managers and the Crown Commercial Service, a UK government department that buys equipment and provides services for the public sector in the UK.
Click to expand...

thedriven.io

"Mind blowing:" Tesla Model 3 electric car gets great review as police vehicle

A Tesla Model 3 electric sedan being used in a trial by UK police has passed with flying colours (and blue lights).
thedriven.io thedriven.io
 
Sounds like an investment opportunity, if you know what to grab -

​

Ford CEO says automaker needs EV batteries more than semiconductor chips as electric F-150 reservations hit 200,000 units​


Ford Motor needs batteries for its electric vehicles more than semiconductor chips, CEO Jim Farley told CNBC’s Jim Cramer on Thursday.

His comments come after the Detroit automaker shut down customer reservations for an upcoming electric version of the F-150 after they hit 200,000 units, which is more than double Ford’s annual production capacity for the vehicle. The electric F-150 Lightning is scheduled to go on sale in the spring.

“We’ll get the semiconductors, that’s a matter of prioritizing the (battery-electric vehicles) over the (internal combustion engine) vehicles,” Farley said during a webcast for the CNBC Investing Club with Jim Cramer. “The issue is batteries. That’s what we have to solve.”

Farley said the automaker is “completely oversubscribed with our battery electric vehicles,” specifically the F-150 Lightning. He told CNBC last week that Ford was doing “whatever it takes” to double production capacity for electric F-150 pickup.

Farley’s comments may surprise many as the automaker continues to deal with a global shortage of semiconductor chips that has wreaked havoc this year on the global automotive industry.

Automakers like Ford are increasingly striking deals to source materials and parts for electric vehicles, specifically batteries, to potentially avoid supply chain interruptions like the chips shortage has highlighted.

There’s worry by some Wall Street analysts that demand for EVs will exceed the expected supply of critical materials such as lithium, creating a problem for automakers to produce the vehicles.

www.cnbc.com

Ford CEO says automaker needs EV batteries more than semiconductor chips as electric F-150 reservations hit 200,000 units

Ford needs batteries for its electric vehicles more than semiconductor chips, CEO Jim Farley told CNBC's Jim Cramer on Thursday.
www.cnbc.com www.cnbc.com
 
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