Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Electric cars?

Would you buy an electric car?

  • Already own one

    Votes: 10 5.1%

  • Yes - would definitely buy

    Votes: 43 21.8%

  • Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    Votes: 78 39.6%

  • Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    Votes: 37 18.8%

  • No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    Votes: 25 12.7%

  • No - would never buy one

    Votes: 14 7.1%
  • Total voters
    197
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Value Collector said:
Pretty sure buffet would agree building a giant battery factory + building huge car plant + building a global charging network + opening new stores all over the world + doing r & d on new products are all investing.

The guy said investors would keep investing as long as things continued to look promising, which if you have actually liked at the details you would see they are.
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Tesla is at that stage where everything it does could be considered both operating and investing.

Where to put the expense is just management's decision to claim back R&D subsidies and looking not-so-bad on investor's roadshow.

I'm obviously no accountant but if I were in the car manufacturing business, I'd classified by first car manufacturing plant as an operating expense rather than an investing activity. I mean, without that plant I wouldn't be able to operate my main activity of manufacturing, right?

Expanding on that plant, getting rid of perfectly usable robots with better ones for efficiency... Those I'd considered investing.

I read Buffett saying that if he teaches investing and ask students to value any dot.com company and they come back with a number, he'd flunk them.

Why? I'm guessing that it's because they're burning cash like it's other people's money, and there's always more of it.

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I don't know how Tesla will work out, neither are many other investors, including that guy in the video. But Tesla is trying to change the world, taking on everybody and their politicians... and all from simply using bankers and investors' cash.

A manufacturing business cannot keep doing that for too long.

Think about it. Tesla is up against the car manufacturers, their parts suppliers; up against the world's charging networks of refill stations and all those logistic companies; it's up against the oil industry.

How many jobs, how much money does all that industry have and would be at risk?

You can't take on all that with investors and bankers cash alone. You'd need the gov't. And the gov't not only has the car, the oil, the supply chains up their azz, they also have voters whose jobs are also at risk.

Why in the world would any gov't support a factory that's mainly robotics (won't be hiring much, making more idle hands to cause social unrest)...

Then top that off with car manufacturers all over the world announcing the drive to EV.

Those guys have the cash, the assets, the experience, the brain power, the logistics, the know-how, the political influence... did I mention they also have positive cash flow (most of the time)?

Musk better grow up and learn to share the market potential of Tesla with other partners. By the look of it he want to operate that Apple model of excluding everyone else.

I mean, complaining about Tesla having to be in a JV if it want to operate in China? Come on Elon, if you want 100% ownership, how will the Chinese steal your ideas and IPs? How will the princlings make their billions? How will the Communist Party get you to influence certain policies in Washington?
 
luutzu said:
I'm obviously no accountant but if I were in the car manufacturing business, I'd classified by first car manufacturing plant as an operating expense rather than an investing activity. I mean, without that plant I wouldn't be able to operate my main activity of manufacturing, right?
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So you don't count the money being spend to build a new factory and to expand another existing one as investing???

I should use you as my accountant, using your theory I could write off the cost of building a new investment property as an expense on this years income tax, rather than be forced to depreciate it over 40 years.

Yet if I go and redo the kitchen with a nicer one that raises the rent by $5 a week you will want to count that as an investment, So on my books the total value of the rental property will appear as just the cost of the new kitchen.

I can see you are right in one thing, you are definitely not an accountant.

As I said before, your cynicism bores me, so don't be offended if my replies to you are limited in the future, you just seem to have a warped view of everything, everything you look at seems to be out to get you or con you, or rip people off, I am not interested in cynics.
 
Value Collector said:
So you don't count the money being spend to build a new factory and to expand another existing one as investing???

I should use you as my accountant, using your theory I could write off the cost of building a new investment property as an expense on this years income tax, rather than be forced to depreciate it over 40 years.

Yet if I go and redo the kitchen with a nicer one that raises the rent by $5 a week you will want to count that as an investment, So on my books the total value of the rental property will appear as just the cost of the new kitchen.

I can see you are right in one thing, you are definitely not an accountant.

As I said before, your cynicism bores me, so don't be offended if my replies to you are limited in the future, you just seem to have a warped view of everything, everything you look at seems to be out to get you or con you, or rip people off, I am not interested in cynics.
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How do you not have any "cynicism" investing in public companies?

We're talking about corporate managers whose mandate is to make money first and foremost. We're not talking about kindergarten teachers or nurses man.

And are my "cynicism" misplaced or without evidence? If not, then maybe it's just an approximate of the actual world we live in.

But anyway, if you think people are all honest and out there to deliver what they promised and what you paid for... try and have that investment property of yours built. Manage it yourself and see how people work.
 
Humid said:
Will there be some sort of electrical car tax to make up for the lost fuel tax?
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Eventually when they hit some critical mass in the future, until then the government would probably avoid it to help induce more electric cars.

Although, Electric cars would still be paying into the system via car rego etc just not quite as much without the fuel tax.

Also, there are other economic benefits to electrical cars that may offset other government spending, eg the government spends Billions related to air pollution heath problems, if electric cars reduced this, the benefit may be greater than the road tax.

Not to mention the trade deficit, using our own Solar, wind, Natural gas and coal rather than importing oil would have benefits for the trade deficit and also creating more local jobs and investment here.

We discussed it back on page 16 of this thread.

at the time I wrote this
I think thats a pretty easy fix, once electric cars hit a certain number on the road the taxes just need to be changed to include them.

But, electric cars also provide financial and non financial benefits to other Australia, which may be worth a lot more than the road tax.

For example

1, Reduced demand for oil based fuel reduces the cost of fuel for other users.
2, Lower air pollution in our cities improves health and lowers the health care costs
3, Using Australian sourced fuel eg Coal, gas and renewables increases fuel security and lowers the trade deficit compared to imported fuels.

these and other benefits may totally offset the 50% lower road tax paid, and may at least justify not taxing the electric car until it becomes a major user of the roads.
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luutzu said:
How do you not have any "cynicism" investing in public companies?

.
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Dude, there is a big difference between healthy skepticism and cynicism.

I consider myself a skeptic, but I can't stand cynics

And are my "cynicism" misplaced or without evidence?
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Yes, often you haven't even researched the facts behind the situation.


But anyway, if you think people are all honest
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Never have I said that, Although you seem to believe everyone and every company is dishonest.
 
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...a421&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

BERLIN (Reuters) - The German automotive industry must invest heavily in electric car technology and develop battery production facilities in Europe to keep up with global competitors, Economy Minister Peter Altmaier said in a newspaper interview published on Monday.

German minister to carmakers: Invest in electric cars or lose out
 
Why would anyone manufacture anything in Australia?? Or better yet, why would anyone invest in anyone wanting to manufacture anything in Australia??
 
I did have an LPG converted vehicle for quite a long time. Quite surprised one day when stopped from going into a car park. Seems there are also restrictions from going through some tunnels. Some vans had gas containers on the roof and that was before World War 2.

Electricity to power vehicles is 'old hat' it's nothing new at all. The first one was built in 1882 in Germany.

220px-First_Trolleybuss_of_Siemens_in_Berlin_1882_%28postcard%29.jpg
The "Elektromote", the world's first trolleybus,[6] in Berlin, Germany, 1882
 
horse and cart revolution will bring problems of its own

the stench from fecal matter in the streets, the lack of farriers, the lack of forgers to make enough shoes, the lack of trainers, what to do with dead beasts that break down in the street, not enough wheel repair shops

of course, on the plus side: more jobs for wheel repair shops, farriers, more basic sanitation jobs, steel forging, but, hey, let's not have any sense of value or optimism about this transitionary phase

 
$85,000 ? And the rest !

You may get a 'standard' car for that , but the options to make it liveable will kill your bank balance.
 
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