Electric cars?

[sptrawler]

They have electricity in the country already, its super easy to install a charging station, actually much easier and cheaper than building petrol station,

Hell, you can just plug into a regular power point if needs be.

Yes, but then it goes back to the charge time issue, jeez like I said if they can get the capacitor/battery hybrid going they're on a winner.
A capacitor can take a BIG hit of electricity and bleed it into the battery, that is where the technology will probably go.
But having said that, you will still have a huge issue with resources to make the batteries required, and a huge issue with recycling and or disposing of depleted batteries.

Also there will be an issue of charging for the electricity, oil company owned service stations aren't going to install electric charging points and get a pitance.
While the generating company uses their outlet, steals their customers, and rapes their profits.

Hydrogen gives off a waste of water, like duh that's good, it cost a lot to make, well Fluck they're only plebs they'll pay.
Christ people on the dole still smoke cigarettes at $30 a packet, and your telling me hydrogen costs too much to make, give me a break.
If you think cost is an issue, you're dreaming, the only issue is if companies can sell it.

 

[luutzu]

No that’s not quite right,

If the sun is up, and you are producing solar power, your house runs off the panels.

Any extra power that you don’t use, gets sold at your sell rate.

Once the sun goes down, or if you are using more than your panels are producing you will draw from he grid at your buy rate.

So the power you produce goes

1st to cover your own usage (at that moment)

2nd sold to the grid,

That's not what my bill says.

And I know it because, shhh... don't tell anyone, when [someone else ] first had it installed and the installer have yet to inform the provider so he just tag the panels, somehow, to reverse the meter.

For an entire quarter the bill was about $3. That's three dollars.

i.e. the power the panels produced almost equal the consumption over the three months.

Once it's switch over properly, it's been over $600/q all year round.

Explain that one my idealistic capitalist friend.

 

[sptrawler]

That's not what my bill says.

And I know it because, shhh... don't tell anyone, when [someone else ] first had it installed and the installer have yet to inform the provider so he just tag the panels, somehow, to reverse the meter.

For an entire quarter the bill was about $3. That's three dollars.

i.e. the power the panels produced almost equal the consumption over the three months.

Once it's switch over properly, it's been over $600/q all year round.

Explain that one my idealistic capitalist friend.

LOL, I have a mate who did that years ago, has kept the inductive disc meter, but he's $hit scared to go on holidays. Because if his next reading is ever below the previous, he will be sprung, then penalties of twice the inverter generated and a fine apply.lol

 

[luutzu]

LOL, I have a mate who did that years ago, has kept the inductive disc meter, but he's $hit scared to go on holidays. Because if his next reading is ever below the previous, he will be sprung, then penalties of twice the inverter generated and a fine apply.lol

yea, called the installer to fix it and he's like, oh yea... forgot about your job. No rush 'cause it's good for you.

We're like... yea, good until the fine us. Can't tell them we went on holiday all year so don't use power at all man.

 

[Value Collector]

Yes, but then it goes back to the charge time issue, jeez like I said if they can get the capacitor/battery hybrid going they're on a winner.
A capacitor can take a BIG hit of electricity and bleed it into the battery, that is where the technology will probably go.
But having said that, you will still have a huge issue with resources to make the batteries required, and a huge issue with recycling and or disposing of depleted batteries.

Also there will be an issue of charging for the electricity, oil company owned service stations aren't going to install electric charging points and get a pitance.
While the generating company uses their outlet, steals their customers, and rapes their profits.

Hydrogen gives off a waste of water, like duh that's good, it cost a lot to make, well Fluck they're only plebs they'll pay.
Christ people on the dole still smoke cigarettes at $30 a packet, and your telling me hydrogen costs too much to make, give me a break.
If you think cost is an issue, you're dreaming, the only issue is if companies can sell it.

What’s the issue with the charge time? For most of the year it takes zero of your time, due to over night charging, and on road trips it takes less time than filling your stomach and empting your bladder.

The problem with hydrogen is that you would need 3 times the infrastructure, eg, 3 times the number of wind turbines and solar panels etc because you lose so much power in the conversion process.

That’s the issue we have been trying to explain, it’s more expensive for a reason.

 

[Value Collector]

That's not what my bill says.

And I know it because, shhh... don't tell anyone, when [someone else ] first had it installed and the installer have yet to inform the provider so he just tag the panels, somehow, to reverse the meter.

For an entire quarter the bill was about $3. That's three dollars.

i.e. the power the panels produced almost equal the consumption over the three months.

Once it's switch over properly, it's been over $600/q all year round.

Explain that one my idealistic capitalist friend.

Dude you are wrong, it’s to late to explain it now I will explain tomorrow, what you see on your bill is just what you send out @ the sell rate, and what you buy back @ the buy rate.

If for example your washing machine is running during the day, that doesn’t appear on your bill (just less will be sent out at the sell rate while it’s running) provided your panels are making enough to run you washing machine at that exact moment, you won’t be paying anything.

 

[sptrawler]

What’s the issue with the charge time? For most of the year it takes zero of your time, due to over night charging, and on road trips it takes less time than filling your stomach and empting your bladder.

The problem with hydrogen is that you would need 3 times the infrastructure, eg, 3 times the number of wind turbines and solar panels etc because you lose so much power in the conversion process.

That’s the issue we have been trying to explain, it’s more expensive for a reason.

What you seem to be ignoring, is no one will give a fluck if it is the most expensive, if it gives the desired result you'll just have to pay it.
When has anybody given a $hit about what something costs, if they can make them pay it?
FFS Labor introduced the carbon tax, our electricity has gone from the cheapest in the first world, to the most expensive.

Who the Fluck has said anything about that? other than smurph, and now you are telling me that if the Government decide hydrogen is the way to go, you with your little Tesla Car flag will stop it.
Jeez grow up.

If the powers that be decree batteries are the way to go, batteries it will be, if they decide the economy can bear the jump to hydrogen, hydrogen it will be.
It will be a cost base analysis, that's all.
Get over it, I drive a diesel. LOL
God you must be a battery based computer programme, or an electric car seller.
Iutzu pulling off a blinder, if he gets away with it.lol

 

[luutzu]

Dude you are wrong, it’s to late to explain it now I will explain tomorrow, what you see on your bill is just what you send out @ the sell rate, and what you buy back @ the buy rate.

If for example your washing machine is running during the day, that doesn’t appear on your bill (just less will be sent out at the sell rate while it’s running) provided your panels are making enough to run you washing machine at that exact moment, you won’t be paying anything.

Is there a way to test what you, and the sales guy, are telling me?

'cause I had an accidental test case and it appear that my panels generated almost as much as I used for an entire quarter. Then suddenly it don't generate so much no more

 

[Value Collector]

What you seem to be ignoring, is no one will give a fluck if it is the most expensive, if it gives the desired result you'll just have to pay it.
When has anybody given a $hit about what something costs, if they can make them pay it?
FFS Labor introduced the carbon tax, our electricity has gone from the cheapest in the first world, to the most expensive.

Who the Fluck has said anything about that? other than smurph, and now you are telling me that if the Government decide hydrogen is the way to go, you with your little Tesla Car flag will stop it.
Jeez grow up.

If the powers that be decree batteries are the way to go, batteries it will be, if they decide the economy can bear the jump to hydrogen, hydrogen it will be.
Get over it, I drive a diesel. LOL

The people that own the infrastructure will want to generate the highest return they can get, now sending the electricity into an inefficient system isn’t going to deliver the highest return.

Also consumers want the cheaper alternatives.

 

[sptrawler]

The people that own the infrastructure will want to generate the highest return they can get, now sending the electricity into an inefficient system isn’t going to deliver the highest return.

Also consumers want the cheaper alternatives.

If consumers wanted the cheapest fuel, we would be still burning coal. Jeez

Consumers will want, what the Government decides is the best for the planet.

They have taken the road to saving the planet, batteries will get them over the removal of fossil fuels.

Hydrogen will be the clean fuel of the future, blind freddy can see that are you sitting next to him? ask him.

When it happens, will be completely dependent on Government legislation, batteries will be a stop gap.

But as has been shown by the S.A Government, who are trying to dig themselves out of a hole, batteries aren't the long term answer that's why they are putting in the hydrogen plants. oh

 

[Value Collector]

Is there a way to test what you, and the sales guy, are telling me?

'cause I had an accidental test case and it appear that my panels generated almost as much as I used for an entire quarter. Then suddenly it don't generate so much no more

(Numbers quoted below vary on your plan)

When the meter runs backwards before it is setup correctly, you are getting a 1 for 1 swap for your generation. (This is not how it’s meant to work)

Eg, 1kwh that you send back completely offsets one that you buy, so you are selling your power 25cents and buying it back for 25cents.

Once your meter is set up correctly, you will be charged 25cents for every 1kwh you draw from the grid and receive 7cents or 15cents for credit for every 1kwh you send back.

Any electricity you use onsite as it is generated, doesn’t appear on your bill, you just use it free, because it’s yours.

So if your solar panels generated 100kwh today, you might have used 25 kWh yourself, and sent back 75kwh for a credit at 7cents each, but then that night you might have used 30kwh which you will be charged 25cents each for.

So the 25kwh you used yourself were entirely free, the 75kwh you got a credit for, and the 30kwh you used that night you bought just like everyone else.

 

[sptrawler]

(Numbers quoted below vary on your plan)

When the meter runs backwards before it is setup correctly, you are getting a 1 for 1 swap for your generation. (This is not how it’s meant to work)

Eg, 1kwh that you send back completely offsets one that you buy, so you are selling your power 25cents and buying it back for 25cents.

Once your meter is set up correctly, you will be charged 25cents for every 1kwh you draw from the grid and receive 7cents or 15cents for credit for every 1kwh you send back.

Any electricity you use onsite as it is generated, doesn’t appear on your bill, you just use it free, because it’s yours.

So if your solar panels generated 100kwh today, you might have used 25 kWh yourself, and sent back 75kwh for a credit at 7cents each, but then that night you might have used 30kwh which you will be charged 25cents each for.

So the 25kwh you used yourself were entirely free, the 75kwh you got a credit for, and the 30kwh you used that night you bought just like everyone else.

You are a computer programme, or a call centre, aren't you?
Do you live in India?
Are you a computer generated test droid, to check out EV acceptance?
PRINT THE FOLLOWING NUMBERS TO PROVE YOUR NOT A ROBOT.
Im A RicHard.

 

[Wysiwyg]

You people are making me feel like someone whose sole purpose is to keep society rolling comfortably along. Apols. for veering off electric cars subject.

 

[Value Collector]

Is there a way to test what you, and the sales guy, are telling me?

'cause I had an accidental test case and it appear that my panels generated almost as much as I used for an entire quarter. Then suddenly it don't generate so much no more

Last post on this topic.

Watch this video from the 2.30 mark, it shows the Tesla app and how the electricity flow is managed between the load from the house, flow to and from battery, and how the excess/deficit is sent to of drawn from the grid.

2.30 mark the example starts.

 

[luutzu]

Last post on this topic.

Watch this video from the 2.30 mark, it shows the Tesla app and how the electricity flow is managed between the load from the house, flow to and from battery, and how the excess/deficit is sent to of drawn from the grid.

2.30 mark the example starts.

You and I both know there's never a last post on any topic

I'll watch that Tesla fanboy thingy later, got a few bricks to lay because some contractors apparently don't do all the work what was agreed but want all the pay that was "agreed"... and then get upset when you don't pay them what they wanted. Farkers.

The likes of AGL are much more polite. They just send you a bill with changes their fine prints said they can make and you can either get a lawyer or suck it up.

So with regards to solar panels and using what's produced the moment it's produced etc... Yea, I know that that's what they said. Just that my bill and my experience and my little pocket calculator doesn't add 2 and 2 together.

 

[Value Collector]

Just that my bill and my experience and my little pocket calculator doesn't add 2 and 2 together.

the electricity you used directly from your solar panels never hit your bill, or your pocket calculator.

All that hits your bill is the Power you sent out and the power you took in.

eg. if you're producing at a rate of 4KWH, but are using at a rate of 1.5KWH, you will be sending 2.5KWH to the grid, that 1.5KWH you were using doesn't appear on any paper work, only excess production you sent to the grid does.

Also, if you turn your washing machine on, and some cloud cover comes and reduces your production to below you usage rate, you will be drawing the extra power you need at 25 cents, when the sun comes out later, you will be selling again at 7 cents.

(by the way you can shop around and get better rates, 7 cents is pretty crap, my dad is getting 16 cents and buying power at 28cents.)

I'll watch that Tesla fanboy thingy later

don't comment back till after you have watched it, because it shows exactly what you are taking about, you can see live on the app where the power is going and where it is coming from.

pause the video as you see the screen change as the solar fluctuates and use your pocket calculator to see the flow.

 

[luutzu]

the electricity you used directly from your solar panels never hit your bill, or your pocket calculator.

All that hits your bill is the Power you sent out and the power you took in.

eg. if you're producing at a rate of 4KWH, but are using at a rate of 1.5KWH, you will be sending 2.5KWH to the grid, that 1.5KWH you were using doesn't appear on any paper work, only excess production you sent to the grid does.

Also, if you turn your washing machine on, and some cloud cover comes and reduces your production to below you usage rate, you will be drawing the extra power you need at 25 cents, when the sun comes out later, you will be selling again at 7 cents.

(by the way you can shop around and get better rates, 7 cents is pretty crap, my dad is getting 16 cents and buying power at 28cents.)
...

I hear what you're saying, just it doesn't work out like that from my experience.

When the installer turn back the meter, I pay practically zero for the entire 3 months. When it's back to normal, I pay some $500.

Before the panels, we pay about $550. And i also remember the discount due to our solar was about $50... it's since been around $30 or something.

If what you're saying is what the power company does... it mean this:

First, let assume our normal pattern of usage remain the same;

Second, a bill of $500 ought to show a rebate (discount) of around 1/3 for our solar energy. Not showing around 1/10th. Right?

We sell to them at 7cent; they sell to us at 22c [around there]. So if we sell about the same and uses about the same but the buy/sell rate is 1:3... you'd expect the bill to reflect that.

Anyway, our usage pattern haven't changed. And with young kids going to bed early, not a whole lot of power are being used at night soooo I'm pretty sure their fine prints got the better of consumers, again.


Yea... we used to switch energy provider whenever some sales guy knock on the door with a better rate and discounts. But then a year or two later they take it back through other means.

 

[sptrawler]

I hear what you're saying, just it doesn't work out like that from my experience.

When the installer turn back the meter, I pay practically zero for the entire 3 months. When it's back to normal, I pay some $500.

Before the panels, we pay about $550. And i also remember the discount due to our solar was about $50... it's since been around $30 or something.

If what you're saying is what the power company does... it mean this:

First, let assume our normal pattern of usage remain the same;

Second, a bill of $500 ought to show a rebate (discount) of around 1/3 for our solar energy. Not showing around 1/10th. Right?

We sell to them at 7cent; they sell to us at 22c [around there]. So if we sell about the same and uses about the same but the buy/sell rate is 1:3... you'd expect the bill to reflect that.

Anyway, our usage pattern haven't changed. And with young kids going to bed early, not a whole lot of power are being used at night soooo I'm pretty sure their fine prints got the better of consumers, again.


Yea... we used to switch energy provider whenever some sales guy knock on the door with a better rate and discounts. But then a year or two later they take it back through other means.

Spinning the disc is a better outcome.lol

 

[luutzu]

Spinning the disc is a better outcome.lol

I heard of a guy who connect a bunch of car batteries in his shed to store the solar instead of selling it.

I think he got pizzed at being played by the gov't and power companies enticing him to spend what must have been $8,000 to install the panels.

 

[sptrawler]

I heard of a guy who connect a bunch of car batteries in his shed to store the solar instead of selling it.

I think he got pizzed at being played by the gov't and power companies enticing him to spend what must have been $8,000 to install the panels.

Yes as soon as you put in batteries, you become a generator and don't qualify for any feed in tarif.
Well that's how it is in W.A