Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Electric cars?

Would you buy an electric car?

  • Already own one

    Votes: 10 5.1%

  • Yes - would definitely buy

    Votes: 43 21.8%

  • Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    Votes: 78 39.6%

  • Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    Votes: 37 18.8%

  • No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    Votes: 25 12.7%

  • No - would never buy one

    Votes: 14 7.1%
  • Total voters
    197
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Elon and Tesla in the news again for all the wrong reasons.
FromABC News
The biggest news rocking the Nasdaq was news that US authorities are going to investigate Tesla over its Autopilot cars crashing into emergency vehicles like fire trucks.

Elon Musk's Tesla dropped 5 per cent on that news.

One of the world's biggest companies could face a recall of its cars if the probe does not go its way.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) said that since January 2018, it had identified 11 crashes in which Tesla models "have encountered first responder scenes and subsequently struck one or more vehicles involved with those scenes".

The auto safety agency said it had reports of 17 injuries and one death in those crashes.

One of those includes the December 2019 crash of a Tesla Model 3 that left a passenger dead after the vehicle collided with a parked fire truck in Indiana.

Tesla has built 765,000 'Autopilot' cars since 2014 in the US.

After investigating, NHTSA could opt to take no action, or it could demand a recall, which might effectively impose limits on how, when and where Autopilot operates.
Click to expand...

It seems their AI does not recognise emergency vehicles.
They would have to fix that before its introduced in OZ.
In Vic there is a 450 fine and two demerit points for not slowing to 40KMH when passing an emergency vehicle with its lights flashing.
Mick
 
mullokintyre said:
It will also affect all the fast EV's around as well as ICE equipeed ones.
I can see a huge blackmarket in fake GPS units emitting bull**** data for the leadfoots.
Of course, all the old ICE V8s etc will not be able to fit them retrospectively, especially those vehicles registered as historic or club rego vehicles. Like to see how they are going to integrate one into the 62 Tbird I have that has nothing electrical on it except the lights and the interior clock.
Mick
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you could fit these on a horse carriage, just need 12V..
Mick, you do not escape that easily from big brother, and in a country which accepts mandatory medical trials, a few targeted graphic ads: "speed kills" will ensure a massive adoption of ongoing tracking within meter of every movement [even if you do not have a phone on you], next stage remote stopping..fair after all why do a dangerous car pursuit..even 1984 was not imaginative enough for what is creeping on us.better start gathering high social credits and getting anomynous on forums

Remember, "own nothing, be happy" so no individual cars is the short term target, and we all agree we do not want to be passengers in speeding taxis or train carriages?
It is a done deal and EV with their pricing is the first step, more than any elusive global warming target.As EU has already mandated some steps there, we will get it anyway on all new vehicles
I do not see local gov resisting either the bonanza of automated speed fines..
I even cynically think they will give you enough tolerance just to be able to get you for over 5km/h over the limit in variable speed zones: school, road works and no cop/speed trap needed, you will pay and maintain it with your own $
 
mullokintyre said:
Elon and Tesla in the news again for all the wrong reasons.
FromABC News


It seems their AI does not recognise emergency vehicles.
They would have to fix that before its introduced in OZ.
In Vic there is a 450 fine and two demerit points for not slowing to 40KMH when passing an emergency vehicle with its lights flashing.
Mick
Click to expand...
I suspect a stupid bug, emergency vehicles recognised as different and some rules bypassed..to give them priority..which could for example remove them from the "moving objects on the road" class or similar; this is actually atype of bugs which could make sense;
surprisingly, many bugs..in retrospect..make sense
I would not like to be in a tesla crossing the path of a giant bouncing red kangaroo..
not your typical test in Silicon Valley....or even Sydney
 
mullokintyre said:
It will also affect all the fast EV's around as well as ICE equipeed ones.
I can see a huge blackmarket in fake GPS units emitting bull**** data for the leadfoots.
Of course, all the old ICE V8s etc will not be able to fit them retrospectively, especially those vehicles registered as historic or club rego vehicles. Like to see how they are going to integrate one into the 62 Tbird I have that has nothing electrical on it except the lights and the interior clock.
Mick
Click to expand...
The thing will be IMO, it is the first step along the path to autonomous vehicles, it will only take an overly authoritarian style Gov to start and introduce laws that allow data from the onboard data logger to be used to fine the vehicles owner.
We certainly are moving into an interesting time, the fine for speeding will probably change also, older vehicles getting impounded and crushed will be the go IMO.
Changing peoples perception of what is in their best interest e.g stopping people from speeding, by getting them to buy a car that doesn't allow it to happen, will take some doing and some time. :2twocents
 
The £40,000 Tesla Model 3 saloon car was subsequently removed from the site on the back of a lorry. It is not known if there was a driver behind the wheel at the time of the collision. The Tesla Model 3 has self-driving capabilities.
 
mullokintyre said:
It will also affect all the fast EV's around as well as ICE equipeed ones.
I can see a huge blackmarket in fake GPS units emitting bull**** data for the leadfoots.
Of course, all the old ICE V8s etc will not be able to fit them retrospectively, especially those vehicles registered as historic or club rego vehicles. Like to see how they are going to integrate one into the 62 Tbird I have that has nothing electrical on it except the lights and the interior clock.
Mick
Click to expand...
I guess in the older cars, rather than a gps speed limiter, they could just install a gps device that tracks speed, and issues fines when the “over speed limit” is reached.
 
Value Collector said:
I guess in the older cars, rather than a gps speed limiter, they could just install a gps device that tracks speed, and issues fines when the “over speed limit” is reached.
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The easiest way, would be to just increase punitive laws, so that it has the three fold effect of reducing speeders, removing cars from the road if they are impounded and crushed and also increasing revenue.
People spending a lot of money on a brand new Tesla, won't be impressed when all the V8's get to Melbourne 3 hours faster than the BEV, it will stifle demand IMO.
The easiest way to get around it, will be to make it unattractive to be caught speeding, just reduce the level at which hoon laws come into effect "to save people".
The other thing that would happen as a consequence would be, the benefit of having a 500KW V8 Mustang would be pointless, I can actually see this killing the performance car market. :2twocents
They won't bring in retrospective gps fitment IMO, same as they didn't make it compulsory old cars had to be fitted with seat belts.
They may bring in that cars fitted with satnav, have an approved data logger fitted, that could be done as a recall e.g the Mustangs etc.
I can imagine it now, "hello sir is there any reason for why you were speeding"? um no.
"Well could you please get out of the car while we plug in our OBD2 reader, oh gosh it looks as though you have been a naughty boy, on numerous occasions. We will have to impound your car for further investigation and possible penalties". ?
"Can I call you a taxi"?
 
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sptrawler said:
People spending a lot of money on a brand new Tesla, won't be impressed when all the V8's get to Melbourne 3 hours faster than the BEV, it will stifle demand IMO.
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I am not sure they will mind, they will be asleep, watching movies or playing video games as the cars drive themselves soon.
 
SirRumpole said:
And crashing into parked emergency vehicles . :rolleyes:
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Sometimes, but less often than human drivers do.

The real test of autonomous driving systems is not whether they crash or not, because there will definitely be crashes, but whether or not they crash less often than human drivers.

think of it like the COVID-19 vaccines, we know that the vaccines cause deaths, but they will prevent 1000’s more deaths than they cause.

Avoiding autonomous vehicles because you are worried about crashes, will eventually be as illogical as avoiding the vaccines.
 
Value Collector said:
Sometimes, but less often than human drivers do.

The real test of autonomous driving systems is not whether they crash or not, because there will definitely be crashes, but whether or not they crash less often than human drivers.

think of it like the COVID-19 vaccines, we know that the vaccines cause deaths, but they will prevent 1000’s more deaths than they cause.

Avoiding autonomous vehicles because you are worried about crashes, will eventually be as illogical as avoiding the vaccines.
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Well the problem is as I've said already is we don't know the algorithm that the auto pilot works on.

eg is it going to send me head on with a B double in order to avoid a pedestrian or a stray dog on the road ?

I'd like to make those decisions myself, but I admit that it's tempting to sit back and let the car drive me.
 
SirRumpole said:
Well the problem is as I've said already is we don't know the algorithm that the auto pilot works on.

eg is it going to send me head on with a B double in order to avoid a pedestrian or a stray dog on the road ?

I'd like to make those decisions myself, but I admit that it's tempting to sit back and let the car drive me.
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If you have an accident with a B double, it’s probably because either you or the B double driver was sleepy, distracted, or drunk these are the types of accidents that autonomous systems will avoid completely.

As I said you argument is a bit like the lady that died of covid recently, because she avoided the vax, because she was scared of blood clots.
 
Value Collector said:
If you have an accident with a B double, it’s probably because either you or the B double driver was sleepy, distracted, or drunk these are the types of accidents that autonomous systems will avoid completely.

As I said you argument is a bit like the lady that died of covid recently, because she avoided the vax, because she was scared of blood clots.
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So what do you do with your autopilot ? Just turn it on and go to sleep ? That's what you would do if you trust it completely.
 
SirRumpole said:
So what do you do with your autopilot ? Just turn it on and go to sleep ? That's what you would do if you trust it completely.
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Autopilot is not fully autonomous at the moment, that will be called level 5 Autopilot, at the moment it’s only level 2.

So I will put autopilot on, the car will navigate, change lanes, over take slower cars, merge off freeway etc but it’s not perfect, but it’s getting better and better all the time with updates.

so far the figures suggest that a car with autopilot enabled and an alert driver out performs the driver by itself.
 
Value Collector said:
Autopilot is not fully autonomous at the moment, that will be called level 5 Autopilot, at the moment it’s only level 2.

So I will put autopilot on, the car will navigate, change lanes, over take slower cars, merge off freeway etc but it’s not perfect, but it’s getting better and better all the time with updates.

so far the figures suggest that a car with autopilot enabled and an alert driver out performs the driver by itself.
Click to expand...
Wireless technology will enable autonomous driving, as 5G, 6G, 7G etc enable faster and greater amounts of data transfer, autonomous driving cars will get better and better. It is only a matter of time.
 
SirRumpole said:
Yes, the hackers will have a great time.
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That will be an issue for sure, but as the hackers get better so do the establishment trackers, then if the hacker is caught it becomes murder in the case of a car accident. Currently they are looked upon as nuisance value, once they start causing cars to crash, that takes it to a whole new level. :2twocents
But the introduction of active speed limiting, really does indicate they are heading toward autonomous cars, if all the cars are behaving in a controlled manner without human interference the algorithm becomes much easier.
There will be problems, but removing human emotion, ability, eyesight, physical dexterity, cognitive function etc from the equation, makes for a huge reduction in variables.
 
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