Electric cars?

[orr]

This video is a must see for anyone that thinks that electric cars pollute as much as petrol cars, or that petrol cars don’t also use huge amounts of electricity.

The major glaring omission of the cost of oil the to the consumer to add to the points listed is the gigantuain monitory and resource weight of worlds militaries in servicing the protection racket to maintain the necessary security of assets and flow...

not news those profiting with the Military Industrial Complex are enarmoured with....

From Jello Biafa circa early 1990's " Die for Oil Sucker "

 

[sptrawler]

Origin to join AGL's lead and start to supply complete BEV packages to companies.

Origin Energy launches “one-stop shop” for EV fleet transition

Australia's laggardly uptake of electric vehicles is set for a boost after Origin Energy announced a partnership with Custom Fleet to provide a holistic solution to EV fleet transition. Fleet cars make up almost half of all new car sales in Australia and upgrading Australia's commercial vehicles...

www.pv-magazine-australia.com

From the article:
Origin Energy announced a partnership with Custom Fleet to provide a holistic solution to EV fleet transition. Fleet cars make up almost half of all new car sales in Australia and upgrading Australia’s commercial vehicles to electric is seen as key to reducing transport emissions.

Origin Energy and Custom Fleet announced that they’re teaming up to provide a solution to EV fleet transition in Australia.

Origin 360 EV Fleet is being branded by Origin Energy as a “one-stop shop for EV fleet procurement, management and charging.”

The idea is to take all the stress away from fleet business customers by fully arranging their EV transition, charging infrastructure, load management and carbon neutral travel through carbon offsets.

This is not the first time Origin and Custom Fleet have teamed up, after working together on Origin’s Australian Renewable Energy Agency (ARENA) funded EV smart charging trial last year. The ongoing two-year trial provided 150 smart chargers to current EV owners and EV fleet managers, connecting them to Origin’s virtual power plant (VPP) platform — an initiative it pioneered in late 2018 with the Victorian Labor Government.

According to Origin’s half FY results, release in February, the company has installed 38 MW of residential and commercial solar in this half year, representing a 47% increase from HY2020. It is hoped that this figure will continue to rise, especially if commercial solar solutions are provided in tandem with fleet transitions to EVs.

 

[Smurf1976]

The major glaring omission of the cost of oil the to the consumer to add to the points listed is the gigantuain monitory and resource weight of worlds militaries in servicing the protection racket to maintain the necessary security of assets and flow...

Absolutely.

Oil fuels war both as a cause and a means of carrying it out.

One of the many reasons that electricity, the vast majority of which is produced from sources other than oil, is a winner. Oil use in the electricity supply chain isn't zero but it's drastically lower than that used to supply and equivalent quantity of petrol or diesel.

 

[over9k]

Better off buying DFEN if that's your play though.

 

[qldfrog]

Absolutely.

Oil fuels war both as a cause and a means of carrying it out.

One of the many reasons that electricity, the vast majority of which is produced from sources other than oil, is a winner. Oil use in the electricity supply chain isn't zero but it's drastically lower than that used to supply and equivalent quantity of petrol or diesel.

I will also let you think about that:
if the west move to EV, and so does not have to compete for oil, that oil will so be available to China...without conflict.
In the way you pretend not to like lollies as they destroy your teeths at school and "offer" them to your bully.
Obviously some here will believe this is a matter of CO2 emissions, worse Climate Change and trust China to reduce its emissions.

 

[Smurf1976]

Obviously some here will believe this is a matter of CO2 emissions, worse Climate Change and trust China to reduce its emissions.

I'm certainly not in that category.

Climate change is an important issue but certainly not the only reason to move to electricity for transport.

The reality that the quantity of oil located in Western countries is quite limited relative to their combined consumption, and that those countries which do have abundant reserves are in general somewhat problematic politically, is a very strong reason to want to use less of it.

 

[qldfrog]

I'm certainly not in that category.

Climate change is an important issue but certainly not the only reason to move to electricity for transport.

The reality that the quantity of oil located in Western countries is quite limited relative to their combined consumption, and that those countries which do have abundant reserves are in general somewhat problematic politically, is a very strong reason to want to use less of it.

What i want to point is that has been the case since 1974 or so, but the west had military hegemony and so could "afford" to launch wars..knowing they would be won.
And God we did...
That might not be the case now against the new big boy in the schoolyard who also needs that oil.
So under the face of a good deed, we aka the West let oil to China, and under a pretend of decolonialism, we leave Africa and SE Asia to China, etc etc
There might be more pressure than CC in our race to EV,ànd maybe just the fact we are losing access to oil .

 

[Macquack]

There might be more pressure than CC in our race to EV,ànd maybe just the fact we are losing access to oil .

I am starting to think "our race to EV" will become purely a matter of economics and nothing to do with climate change.

As already undertaken by Value Collector, if I can charge an EV from my house solar panels and get "fuel" for virtually "free", then it is not a question of will I get a EV, it is just a question of when.

 

[qldfrog]

I am starting to think "our race to EV" will become purely a matter of economics and nothing to do with climate change.

As already undertaken by Value Collector, if I can charge an EV from my house solar panels and get "fuel" for virtually "free", then it is not a question of will I get a EV, it is just a question of when.

Agree but the gov see that and has already decided they want their shareso your electricity might be free but you will be charged for thr priviledge so higher rego for ev fee on power access, or fee per solar panel.
Gas is actually really cheap if you remove taxes so each tank you fill is mostly a cheque to the ato more than buying a produce
43c per litre plus a 10% gst on the lot..nearly 50% of your tank bill is a gift to the ATO if you take into account the taxes on the reseller importers etc
They will not let that go, that is a given

 

[Macquack]

Agree but the gov see that and has already decided they want their shareso your electricity might be free but you will be charged for thr priviledge so higher rego for ev fee on power access, or fee per solar panel.
Gas is actually really cheap if you remove taxes so each tank you fill is mostly a cheque to the ato more than buying a produce
43c per litre plus a 10% gst on the lot..nearly 50% of your tank bill is a gift to the ATO if you take into account the taxes on the reseller importers etc
They will not let that go, that is a given

True.

I must be getting old and also starting to think how to cut the government out of the loop. Off grid, off town water, just need a cow, a veggy patch, a home brew kit, and a 30 year old car so I can get cheap "club" rego.

 

[over9k]

I am starting to think "our race to EV" will become purely a matter of economics and nothing to do with climate change.

As already undertaken by Value Collector, if I can charge an EV from my house solar panels and get "fuel" for virtually "free", then it is not a question of will I get a EV, it is just a question of when.

Lol that's all it's ever been macquack. I made that big post about energy security etc for a reason.

Most of the world doesn't care about climate change in the slightest.

 

[qldfrog]

True.

I must be getting old and also starting to think how to cut the government out of the loop. Off grid, off town water, just need a cow, a veggy patch, a home brew kit, and a 30 year old car so I can get cheap "club" rego.

Working on it too?

 

[basilio]

Lol that's all it's ever been macquack. I made that big post about energy security etc for a reason.

Most of the world doesn't care about climate change in the slightest.

Do you really think so ? if "climate change" was some abstract concept like the formation of black holes or "how many angels can dance on the head of pin" discussion I could see your POV.

But CC is intensely real. The bushfires that now far more dangerous than every before. Rising sea levels because of runaway melting of Arctic/Antarctic ice. Droughts that decimate landscapes and ecosystems.

And if I was just to pick one definitive hip pocket item that could persuade people to become woke to why we need to recognise and tackle CC, check out the obvious consequence of more bushfires, floods and rising sea levels. When you see this years house insurance premiums this will be a prime driver. It will be catastrophic in some/many areas and just steep for the rest of the community.

How the spread of insurance red zones could trigger a property crunch

Insurance premiums for thousands of Australians are likely to double or even triple within decades. New data reveals the suburbs facing the biggest jumps.

www.abc.net.au

Climate change and P&C insurance: The threat and opportunity

Many insurance business models must adapt to the effects from climate change

www.mckinsey.com

 

[basilio]

But back to electric cars.

China is the world biggest car market. And China is moving very rapidly to electric cars for CC, pollution and cost reasons. Check out the cute, basic Chinese electric car that is going through the roof.

Electric vehicles tipped to reach 58pct of new car sales in China by 2030

HSBC predicts almost six in ten new cars sold in China could be electric by 2030, driven by new generation of EV-friendly consumers.

thedriven.io

 

[basilio]

A really interesting phenomenon is the runaway success of the Wuling Hongguang Mini EV.
Went from design to full production in 12 months!!
Costs $4.500. Can seat four. Tiny footprint. 100-140k range. Looks fun and quirky.

But most importantly in China it doesn't incur an additional $10,000 cost to drive in Shanghai. Very powerful incentive indeed.

Yes it is basic and cheap. But for $4500 urban transport ? That's, what, 3 iphones ?

China plans 2035 gas car ban that doesn't actually ban gas ...​

electrek.co › 2020/10/27 › china-plans-2035-gas-car-b...
27 Oct 2020 — China plans to require that all new cars sold after 2035 be eco-friendly ... cars sold in the country will be either electric, plug-in hybrid, or fuel cell vehicles, ... In Shanghai, for example, license plates are prohibitively expensive ($10,000+) for gas vehicles, while EV license plates do not need to pay this fee.

 

[Smurf1976]

I am starting to think "our race to EV" will become purely a matter of economics and nothing to do with climate change.

I'll simply observe that what's most important depends on who you ask.

Anyone on the engineering side and most governments (Australia's a notable exception) will put supply security as top of the list of concerns. They won't see the others as unimportant, just not the top priority.

Big business tends to put price at top of the list until someone mentions supply security, at which point they usually ask probing questions and conclude that some compromise between cost and reliability is what's needed.

General public tends to worry about financial cost and any sort of environmental impact they can see. Smoke coming out of a stack, urban smog, oil spills, etc.

Everyone says they're worried about climate change but in practice very few put it top of the list when it comes to the crunch of what they actually do. That's not aiming to throw stones, it's just a practical observation. Everyone says they're concerned but in practice that concern is usually "subject to" some other consideration(s). In other words, it's on the list but not at the top.

So far as oil supply security is concerned, well that one's nothing new to anyone who's been around the whole thing. The Australian electricity industry in particular churned out a huge amount of research into it around 40 years ago now and the short version of all that could be stated as "the world isn't running out of oil but the price and supply of it is and will remain at risk - at some point that risk may well blow up and at that point it's far too late to do anything about it".

Quite a few major projects came out of that thinking. Some which were built and which did reduce the use of oil substantially, others which ended in major controversy and didn't go ahead but alternatives were in due course built instead. Hence why we only have ~2% of electricity supply from oil nationally, and most of that's not on the main grid. That was a very conscious decision made circa 40 years ago now to not have oil as a major source of electricity in Australia.

 

[over9k]

Do you really think so ? if "climate change" was some abstract concept like the formation of black holes or "how many angels can dance on the head of pin" discussion I could see your POV.

But CC is intensely real. The bushfires that now far more dangerous than every before. Rising sea levels because of runaway melting of Arctic/Antarctic ice. Droughts that decimate landscapes and ecosystems.

And if I was just to pick one definitive hip pocket item that could persuade people to become woke to why we need to recognise and tackle CC, check out the obvious consequence of more bushfires, floods and rising sea levels. When you see this years house insurance premiums this will be a prime driver. It will be catastrophic in some/many areas and just steep for the rest of the community.

How the spread of insurance red zones could trigger a property crunch

Insurance premiums for thousands of Australians are likely to double or even triple within decades. New data reveals the suburbs facing the biggest jumps.

www.abc.net.au

Climate change and P&C insurance: The threat and opportunity

Many insurance business models must adapt to the effects from climate change

www.mckinsey.com

I didn't say it isn't real. I said most of the planet doesn't care, and they don't. Environmentalism is a luxury of the rich. Most of the planet have much more immediate and bigger problems (like starvation) than climate change.

I made a big point of this in my post about asia trying to get off oil dependence etc - that it has nothing to do with environmentalism and everything to do with energy security. Any positive environmental things are just side effects.

 

[sptrawler]

I didn't say it isn't real. I said most of the planet doesn't care, and they don't. Environmentalism is a luxury of the rich. Most of the planet have much more immediate and bigger problems (like starvation) than climate change.

I made a big point of this in my post about asia trying to get off oil dependence etc - that it has nothing to do with environmentalism and everything to do with energy security. Any positive environmental things are just side effects.

Spot on and as smurf said, many go on and on about climate change, but actually do very little themselves about it.
In most cases it is like listening to someone with a smoke in their mouths, telling you that you should give up smoking, meanwhile they take another puff.
For the record I don't smoke.

 

[over9k]

Fact is that most simply cannot afford to. If you don't know where your next meal is coming from, that concern generally consumes all of your attention.

One of the BIG overlap areas is in smog though - health problems cost and smog causes a lot of health problems. For that reason, even poor countries are putting a lot of effort into reducing smog, which basically just means doing any/every thing they can to reduce or at least mitigate the number and/or effects of exhaust pipes in any one area.

Hence why even energy secure poor countries are still chasing EV's etc. Again, nothing to do with climate change, but a nice side-effect nonetheless.

 

[Craton]

A really interesting phenomenon is the runaway success of the Wuling Hongguang Mini EV.
Went from design to full production in 12 months!!
Costs $4.500. Can seat four. Tiny footprint. 100-140k range. Looks fun and quirky.

But most importantly in China it doesn't incur an additional $10,000 cost to drive in Shanghai. Very powerful incentive indeed.

Yes it is basic and cheap. But for $4500 urban transport ? That's, what, 3 iphones ?

Is there even a safety rating on that thing?