Value Collector
Have courage, and be kind.
- Joined
- 13 January 2014
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On one hand, great idea.
On the other you know the car has that function but 99.9% of people don't. Most people seeing that are going to assume the dog's in danger in a seriously hot car and some will take action in regards to that.
It's one of those things where technology is ahead of society with that one.
ICE cars use vanishingly little fuel at idle:Leaving your ice car running when you are more than 3m away is illegal.
But more impin an EV you don’t have a huge engine running wasting a tonne of fuel, you just have a small electric motor efficiently running the fans or aircon depending.
Also, cabin over heat protection only kicks in when the temp rises towards 40 degrees, it will first attempt to just use fans to blow in air from outside, but if that is not enough to keep the cabin under 40 it will use the minimum amount of air con to maintain the cabin at 38 degrees.
Cabin over heat protection uses very little energy, where are leaving your ICE car running would be a huge waste, not to mention blowing poison gas as everyone else in the car park.
so yeah, the old ICE cars can’t really do that, at least not efficiently, safely or legally.
It's used literally dozens of times a day when discussing investment strategies by, well, basically everyone. I've seen it squillions of times just on this forum alone. Seems odd that I'm the one telling you this TBH?——————
I will leave that jargon to you, because it seems nonsensical to me.
ICE cars use vanishingly little fuel at idle:
And an ICE car can use just fans in the literal exact same way an electric car can as the fans themselves run on electricity. It's the A/C which needs the engine running.
I'm also pretty doubtful about the legalities you mention, it might be true for public property/parking on the street but on private property this would literally make it illegal to leave your car running if you forgot your wallet and just ran inside to get it or something, which sounds patently absurd.
This just isn't something that can't be added to ICE cars if it becomes a selling point. It's nice, but this isn't an electric car exclusive feature.
Ignoring that entirely, if this was a feature people really cared about, a decent ICE car battery has more than enough juice to run an air conditioning compressor for a while. MORE than enough.
It's used literally dozens of times a day when discussing investment strategies by, well, basically everyone. I've seen it squillions of times just on this forum alone. Seems odd that I'm the one telling you this TBH?
That's about theft and security. By its and your logic, it would be illegal to accidentally lock your keys in your car and go into a shop or something "leaving your vehicle unattended" to call RACQ to come & break into it for you. Absurd.here is an article mentioning thats It’s illegal to leave your car running.
https://corporatedrivertrainingaustralia.com.au/leaving-a-car-unattended/
we have already discussed the fact that Internal combustion engines lose about 70% of their energy to heat etc, this is no different while idling, ofcourse idling uses less than full throttle, but it can’t compete with a dedicated electric motor that only runs the aircon or fans.
just look at the size of the ICE cars engine, and all the moving parts of the engine, including the water pumps and cooling fans required to remove all that wasted heat just so you can turn the air con compressor vs having a simple small electric motor turning the compressor with almost no energy loses compared to the ice car.
It won't be. Like I said, an ICE car battery has more than enough capacity to run the air conditioning for five minutes (or whatever) before you get in the car.I don’t think people would appreciate not being able to start their cars at the end of the day because the tiny battery in their ICE car is flat.
people don’t care about this feature until they have it in their lives, it’s a good little luxury, it’s not something you buy an ev specifically for, but it’s one of the many things you appreciate once you have it, like not having to visit the petrol station anymore,
I'm going to continue using the terms in the same way that absolutely everyone else understand their meaning and therefore use. If you choose to interpret them in a way other than how you know I and everyone else mean it, that's on you.talking heads in the media say heaps of dumb sheet, and as I said it’s nonsensical, and whom ever you are saying uses the terms as opposites in this forum are just plain wrong.
Well I wasn't expecting they'd thought of that one!It puts up a notification on the cars display letting anyone that looks in that the car is in “Dog Mode” and tells them the temp.
For the A/C literally zero since, in most cars at least, it's driven from the engine and is not electric. There are exceptions, cars with electric A/C, but that's not what the average car has.I don't think you realise how much fan and/or air conditioning running time a normal car battery actually has in it.
It won't be. Like I said, an ICE car battery has more than enough capacity to run the air conditioning for five minutes (or whatever) before you get in the car.
Have you? Which Ice cars have this feature.And as I've demonstrated, it's not something unique to electric cars, making your point irrelevant.
Firstly 600mil per hour is not nothing, and as that guy in the video said, even the cars manufacturer testing says it’s higher than that.ICE engines use vanishingly little fuel at idle. The proportion becomes irrelevant when we're talking multiples of nearly nothing.
For the A/C literally zero since, in most cars at least, it's driven from the engine and is not electric. There are exceptions, cars with electric A/C, but that's not what the average car has.
For the fan, in theory a few hours as long as it's only the fan you're using. That said, I've only ever driven one ICE car that lets you turn the fan on with the key in "accessory" position and none which allow running the fan without the key in the ignition.
As for idling engines, did that for an extended period once (10 hours or so). It was for a reason, power was being tapped off the 12V and far more current than the battery could supply without going flat, so running the engine was the workaround.
All good, seemed to suffer no harm but then when I got in the car and drove off after it had been idling all day there was an almighty cloud of black stuff which came out the exhaust.
No it doesn't?5 minutes???
cabin over heat protection needs to be able to run for 5 hours.
Er, what?what’s the point of having a cabin over heat protection if it only keeps your car cool for the first 5 minutes of your 8 hour work day?
You're defining practical level of time as hours. Why would you be cooling your car when you're not in it?this is what I am talking about, the standard lead acid battery will not hold enough charge to keep run the air con for any practical length of time and still be able to start the car, especially once that battery is 2 years old.
The feature is not unique, it can be (could have been years ago) added to ICE cars any time the market actually wants it. You're acting as if this is something that ICE cars can't do rather than something they aren't doing, which are completely different things.Have you? Which Ice cars have this feature.
Yeah but you're not running the car at idle for hours are you? You're running it for 5-10 mins before you get in it. So burning 60ml (depending on engine size), or about 10c, of fuel.Firstly 600mil per hour is not nothing, and as that guy in the video said, even the cars manufacturer testing says it’s higher than that.
secondly, that’s is for an engine with no load, as soon as you put the aircon on in an ICE car you can hear the engine begin to labour more, increasing fuel consumption, so it could be easily over 1 litre and hour probably closer to 2 litres for the average size engine.
so that’s consuming up to $3 of fuel per hour.
which means when I parked my car outside yesterday (Hot Queensland day), I would have burned about $15 of petrol vs $0.45 of electricity, I don’t think people would want their engines running burning cash like that.
No it doesn't?
If it takes ten minutes (or whatever) to cool the car down from whatever temp it is in the sun to a comfortable temperature to get in to, then it needs to run for ten minutes.
It only needs to run for the amount of time necessary to bring the car down to whatever temp you've decided.
Er, what?
Why would you be cooling your car when you're not in it?
You're defining practical level of time as hours. Why would you be cooling your car when you're not in it?
The feature is not unique, it can be (could have been years ago) added to ICE cars any time the market actually wants it. You're acting as if this is something that ICE cars can't do rather than something they aren't doing, which are completely different things.
Yeah but you're not running the car at idle for hours are you? You're running it for 5-10 mins before you get in it. So burning 60ml (depending on engine size), or about 10c, of fuel.
I think if you leave your car parked with the air conditioning running for the entire day without anyone actually in the car, you're a moron.
Can someone please explain this premise of leaving the air conditioning running for hours and hours and hours at a time without anyone actually in the car? Why would anyone do this?
The point of the cabin over heat protection is to protect the car and its contents from damage and premature deterioration caused my constantly exposing the interior to super high temps, so turning on for 5 to 10 minutes doesn't quite cut it.
As explained above, "cabin over heat protection" just keeps the car below 40 degrees to protect the car and its contents, exposing the car and other equipment to 60+ degrees temps is not good.
Let me explain the various modes.
1, Cabin over heat protection mode - Stops the car exceeding 40 degrees for the protection of the car and sensitive things like phones you may have left in it.
2, Climate control - Brings the car down/up to what ever temp you decide before you arrive back at car or you can leave it on to protect groceries etc.
3, Dog Mode- Keeps the car cool/warm for Rover while you are temporarily away
4, Camp mode- like Dog mode for people, but also allows entertainment and arcade features to operate
Ice cars can't run cabin over heat protection for any practical time.
Also, its a bit like saying Ice cars could have added self driving and sentry modes, so Tesla isn't unique, the fact is they didn't add those features, so Tesla is unique.
As explained above, cabin over heat protection runs all day every day when ever they car is going to go over 40 degrees, and doesn't require a massive engine idling, it just intelligently turns on and over, nothing like that exists in Ice cars.
At this point I think you just don't understand the cabin overheat protection mode, it turns on and off as needed, its you that was saying you could replicate this feature by leaving your car idling, which would be moronic.
Hopefully by this point I have repeated my self enough times for you to understand that cabin overheat protection mode runs all day to keep the car below 40 degrees, but aircon only switches on and off as necessary to keep it below 40degrees which is still fairly warm, but its low enough to prevent undue damage or deterioration to you car and personal bellowing left inside the car.
Remember - It was you that suggested ICE cars could achieve this by leaving their engines idling to run the aircon, not me.
I think the only reason you find this feature weird is because you are thinking like an ICE car owner, where in the back of your mind running the aircon is a cumbersome and expensive exercise, so it seems simpler to just let your car bake all day cooking the inside, where as once you have an EV you will see have a feature that protects the car and its contents by intelligently switching the fans and aircon on and off every now and then is simple and low cost good idea.
You're not hearing me. I don't understand the point of "cabin overheat mode" when no person or dog is in the car. What is the point? To make the floor mats more comfortable?
You're not hearing me. I don't understand the point of "cabin overheat mode" when no person or dog is in the car. What is the point? To make the floor mats more comfortable?
If by that you mean that I think that anyone who buys an electric car because it has "cabin overheat protection" is an idiot, then yes.I think you are beating a dead horse into absolute pulp here over9K.Perhaps give it away and focus on other constructive elements of EV cars ?
I have to say I am very impressed with the cabin cooling technology of Tesla cars to cheaply and easily :
1) Protect the interior of the car from temperature extremes on hot days
2) Cool the car before you get into it
3) Protect an animal and have a big screen telling people the internal temperature and what is happening
One wouldn't necessarily buy the car because of these features but wow what a bonus. And really I don't believe it would be anywheere near as practical/viable to attempt a similar exercise in an ICE car - unless they were a hybrid and somehow had integrated this technology into the electric components of the car. (And I don't think that would work because the A/C I suspect would be operated through the petrol motor)
Perhaps you should drive around yelling at the people that take the shaded car parks, telling them they are idiots for wanting their car shaded and cool because there is no benefit in it, because the first car parks to fill up are always the shaded ones, that shows a certain amount of people do think about their car cooking in the sun.If by that you mean that I think that anyone who buys an electric car because it has "cabin overheat protection" is an idiot, then yes.
This is not a selling feature, except to idiots.
Alright so I'll try to be a bit more diplomatic here:
It isn't heat per se that ruins cars, it is direct sunlight which does it.
Deterioration
The principal agents of deterioration of textiles are:
Substances incorporated in finishing and manufacturing processes may contribute to textile degradation. For instance, metal-based dyes and dye mordants can accelerate rotting of fibres, producing gaping holes in affected fabrics. In silks the weighting, which was introduced in the form of metal salts to increase the weight and make the silk crisper and more drapable, actively promotes the degradation of the fabric. There is little that can be done for these fabrics as deterioration will continue even under good storage conditions.
- light;
- temperature and relative humidity;
- pollutants and chemical degradation;
- dust;
- inappropriate repairs and handling; and
- biological deterioration (insects and mould)
Light
All forms of light are damaging to textiles. Photochemical reactions initiated by light energy can lead to the deterioration of the principally organic textile components. The damage to a textile by visible and invisible radiation is cumulative and irreversible. Of particular importance is the ultraviolet (UV) radiation band which supplies enough energy to break the molecular bonds found in textile fibres. UV radiation is present in daylight and is also emitted by many types of artificial light. Control of visible light and UV radiation is described in an earlier chapter (see the chapter Preventive Conservation: Agents of Decay).
Closely monitor and limit the amount of light to which textiles are exposed, particularly those on display. Storing textiles in the dark is standard practice.
Isolate light sources from textiles because heat generated from light sources can accelerate deterioration. Most light sources generate heat and this can build up, especially if the light source is housed in the same closed cabinet as the textile.
Temperature and Relative Humidity
Do not expose textiles to high temperatures. Often the effects of heat damage are not immediately obvious but may be manifested by fibres becoming brittle or discolouring.
Relative humidity is a well understood agent of destruction. Fibres expand and contract in line with changes in relative humidity. Continual fluctuations of this type create stresses in fibres which may eventually lead to fragmentation of the textile. Under low relative humidity conditions fibres shrink, textiles become desiccated and lose flexibility. They are then more susceptible to damage when handled. If on the other hand the textile is exposed to high relative humidity conditions then the chemical stability of the textile will be threatened, the effects of light exposure enhanced and mould growth and insect attack encouraged.
No, you just said people that use it are morons, and tried to make out having cabin over heat protection was crazy, which it clearly isn't..
I never said that the air conditioning won't help, .
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