Electric cars?

[over9k]

C'mon dude, you know full well that I was talking purely in the jargonistic sense, as would anyone else using the, you know, jargon. If you use the terms in a different way to everyone else, you're going to have people fail to understand what you're talking about almost constantly, no matter how right you are in your "they're actually the same thing" assertion. I wasn't using the term because I don't understand that they're effectively the same thing, I was using the term to describe something.

You are not the first or only person here to realise the effective lack of difference between these two things.


Can we get back to the topic at hand rather than a discussion about semantics?

BHP & RIO dropping two billion on a new copper mine should tell everyone a lot. You don't do that kind of thing without very good reason. Question is, is it the reason I have described above? My gut tells me yes, as it's not like I'm the first person to go "gee, more electric cars = more demand for the stuff that goes in them".

 

[basilio]

Sono Motors reveals $34,000 Sion solar car “you can really afford”

• January 13, 2021
• No comments
• 3 minute read
• Bridie Schmidt

Sion solar car. Source: Sono Motors

German start-up Sono Motors has unveiled its Sion solar car via now-online technology expo CES2021 on Wednesday (Australia time), billing it as a solar car “you can really afford”.
The Sion will be priced from €21,429 (ex-VAT) according to Sono Motors chief operating operator Thomas Hausch who introduced the Sion via a live stream event on Wednesday.
This equates to $33,692 in Australian dollars – cheaper than any all-electric car currently on the Australian market, even the MG ZS EV which was introduced in late 2020 from $40,990 before on-roads.
And it’s far cheaper even than the VW ID.3 all-electric hatch, which costs around €35,500 ($A55,812 converted) in Europe.

Solar on Every Vehicle | Sono Motors

Sono Motors will integrate its solar technology exclusively into third-party vehicles. However, the Sion program will be terminated.

sonomotors.com

 

[Value Collector]

C'mon dude, you know full well that I was talking purely in the jargonistic sense, as would anyone else using the, you know, jargon.

In that case, I genuinely have no Idea what that jargon means.

When you said Growth destroyed value, I have no idea by what you were meaning by growth and what you were meaning by value, or the meaning of the entire sentence, I thought you were trying to say "growth stocks" massively out performed "value stocks", which as I have explained doesn't make sense to me, because it assumes they are to different things.

What were you trying to say with that sentence? (genuine question here, as I said the sentence completely confuses me)

 

[Value Collector]

Sono Motors reveals $34,000 Sion solar car “you can really afford”

• January 13, 2021
• No comments
• 3 minute read
• Bridie Schmidt

View attachment 118549 Sion solar car. Source: Sono Motors

German start-up Sono Motors has unveiled its Sion solar car via now-online technology expo CES2021 on Wednesday (Australia time), billing it as a solar car “you can really afford”.
The Sion will be priced from €21,429 (ex-VAT) according to Sono Motors chief operating operator Thomas Hausch who introduced the Sion via a live stream event on Wednesday.
This equates to $33,692 in Australian dollars – cheaper than any all-electric car currently on the Australian market, even the MG ZS EV which was introduced in late 2020 from $40,990 before on-roads.
And it’s far cheaper even than the VW ID.3 all-electric hatch, which costs around €35,500 ($A55,812 converted) in Europe.

Solar on Every Vehicle | Sono Motors

Sono Motors will integrate its solar technology exclusively into third-party vehicles. However, the Sion program will be terminated.

sonomotors.com

interesting idea, I still feel solar panels on cars are a bit of a gimmick, I mean most of us prefer to park out cars in the shade if we can, but I guess if you are forced to park outside every day the solar panels might be handy, if only to run your air-conditioning to keep your car cool and prevent damage.

 

[sptrawler]

I don't know how old you guys are @Value Collector and @over9k , but I have seen BHP have a price crash at least three times over my investment lifespan, so Im sure you will see it again.

 

[Value Collector]

I don't know how old you guys are @Value Collector and @over9k , but I have seen BHP have a price crash at least three times over my investment lifespan, so Im sure you will see it again.

I think the first 1 minute of this video sums that up perfectly, it’s not something to be fear, it’s just business as usual.

 

[sptrawler]

I didn't listen to it but I presume he said the same.

 

[Value Collector]

I didn't listen to it but I presume he said the same.

You only have to listen to the first 60 seconds, it worth the listen.

 

[sptrawler]

You only have to listen to the first 60 seconds, it worth the listen.

OMG Maybe next week, this week has been a nightmare, I just want it to end.
The last thing I need is in-depth anything.

 

[Belli]

I still feel solar panels on cars are a bit of a gimmick, I mean most of us prefer to park out cars in the shade if we can, but I guess if you are forced to park outside every day the solar panels might be handy, if only to run your air-conditioning to keep your car cool and prevent damage.

Park and Plug?

 

[over9k]

Park and Plug?

View attachment 118555

Unfortunately, that amount of solar panelling will do 3/8ths of f**k all to all of those cars even if they were parked there for an entire day.

I suspect it's pure economics of running the air conditioning in the shopping centre or something like that, so unless the centre can on-sell the power for more than they pay for it (and why would anybody do that when they can just charge their car with their own cheaper electricity at home), we aren't going to see park & charge like this.

 

[Belli]

Of course not, hence the smiley. However, I assume that as the cars are parked in the shade of the solar panels, they wouldn't need 3/8th's of f&&& all power for the aircon.

 

[over9k]

Er, running a car's aircon? When it's parked? And you're inside?

Wut?

 

[over9k]

In that case, I genuinely have no Idea what that jargon means.

When you said Growth destroyed value, I have no idea by what you were meaning by growth and what you were meaning by value, or the meaning of the entire sentence, I thought you were trying to say "growth stocks" massively out performed "value stocks", which as I have explained doesn't make sense to me, because it assumes they are to different things.

What were you trying to say with that sentence? (genuine question here, as I said the sentence completely confuses me)

Value = stock you buy to get its dividends, growth = stock you buy to see its market cap increase

obviously a 5% (or whatever) dividend (ignoring franking) is going to be the same figure as a market cap increase of 5%, but there's the question of which is the better bet and market caps have increased way way way above dividends that have been paid lately. way above.

 

[Value Collector]

Value = stock you buy to get its dividends, growth = stock you buy to see its market cap increase.

Again that makes no sense to me, I think you either avoided watching that short Buffett video I posted or didn’t understand what he is talking about.

You can be a value investor and buy a share that doesn’t pay a dividend, not paying a dividend doesn’t mean it’s not a value investment.

A “growth company” is just a company that I believe or the market believes is making credible steps to grow and therefore increase its underlying value, it’s all based on value it’s not a separate thing, growth companies don’t stop being value investments until their share price is to high based on their future growth.

The only reason you would buy a growth company is because you believe it’s increasing in value, you shouldn’t be ignoring value, you should be making your best estimates to what you think it’s future value is and comparing that to the price today.... and in the process you are “value investing” and “growth investing” because they are not mutually exclusive terms.

 

[Value Collector]

Er, running a car's aircon? When it's parked? And you're inside?

Wut?

Tesla’s have a “Cabin Overheat Protection” setting, where if your car is parked in the sun it will use the fan or the aircon to keep the car under 40 degrees, it usually sits at about 38 degrees.

You can also keep the climate control running while you are away from the car if you want, I had some groceries in the car the other day and kept the car at 12 degrees while I dropped into another shop.

You can also control the car temp using the app, so you can turn on the aircon or the heater on a few minutes before you get back to your car, so its nice temp when you get into your car.

It also has dog mode, where it keeps the climate control on while your parked, if you want to leave your dog in the car.

Yeah, with EV’s there are plenty of options no available in petrol cars.

 

[basilio]

Tesla’s have a “Cabin Overheat Protection” setting, where if your car is parked in the sun it will use the fan or the aircon to keep the car under 40 degrees, it usually sits at about 38 degrees.

You can also keep the climate control running while you are away from the car if you want, I had some groceries in the car the other day and kept the car at 12 degrees while I dropped into another shop.

You can also control the car temp using the app, so you can turn on the aircon or the heater on a few minutes before you get back to your car, so its nice temp when you get into your car.

It also has dog mode, where it keeps the climate control on while your parked, if you want to leave your dog in the car.

Yeah, with EV’s there are plenty of options no available in petrol cars.

Wow!! That is seriously useful.
Re the integrated solar panels on the Sono. I think it makes good sense across a number of points

1) No need to paint the car. Just saved that production cost
2) The technology of integrated solar panels is getting very cost effective and potentially more efficient/productive. 38 klms extra travel a day is not to be dismissed. It could well improve. In a number of cases it can be the total daily commute.

On a financial basis consider the economic value of say 300 days in a year producing an average of 25klms travel distance. That is 7500 klms of travel effectively free. I don't believe that is small fry. The company claims it can generate up to 35 Klms a day extra travel in Germany. I'm rounding it down by 30%\

Plus the following plug for the car.

Low Cost Maintenance
Our clever 3-step maintenance system keeps repair costs as low as possible.

1. DIY is back. Standard replacement parts can be changed by yourself without needing much prior knowledge.
2. By publishing a workshop handbook, we make it possible to establish an extensive network of independent mechanics.
3. For any repairs involving high-voltage or body parts, we cooperate with a well-known European service provider.

 

[over9k]

Tesla’s have a “Cabin Overheat Protection” setting, where if your car is parked in the sun it will use the fan or the aircon to keep the car under 40 degrees, it usually sits at about 38 degrees.

You can also keep the climate control running while you are away from the car if you want, I had some groceries in the car the other day and kept the car at 12 degrees while I dropped into another shop.

You can also control the car temp using the app, so you can turn on the aircon or the heater on a few minutes before you get back to your car, so its nice temp when you get into your car.

It also has dog mode, where it keeps the climate control on while your parked, if you want to leave your dog in the car.

Yeah, with EV’s there are plenty of options no available in petrol cars.

No different to just leaving the engine running with the a/c on then?

And before anyone carries on about leaving the keys in the car, there's FOB keys and/or the ability to just have a 2nd key. This is definitely something ICE cars could do.

Again that makes no sense to me, I think you either avoided watching that short Buffett video I posted or didn’t understand what he is talking about.

You can be a value investor and buy a share that doesn’t pay a dividend, not paying a dividend doesn’t mean it’s not a value investment.

A “growth company” is just a company that I believe or the market believes is making credible steps to grow and therefore increase its underlying value, it’s all based on value it’s not a separate thing, growth companies don’t stop being value investments until their share price is to high based on their future growth.

The only reason you would buy a growth company is because you believe it’s increasing in value, you shouldn’t be ignoring value, you should be making your best estimates to what you think it’s future value is and comparing that to the price today.... and in the process you are “value investing” and “growth investing” because they are not mutually exclusive terms.

I was referring to the jargon...

 

[Smurf1976]

It also has dog mode, where it keeps the climate control on while your parked, if you want to leave your dog in the car.

On one hand, great idea.

On the other you know the car has that function but 99.9% of people don't. Most people seeing that are going to assume the dog's in danger in a seriously hot car and some will take action in regards to that.

It's one of those things where technology is ahead of society with that one.

 

[Value Collector]

No different to just leaving the engine running with the a/c on then?

And before anyone carries on about leaving the keys in the car, there's FOB keys and/or the ability to just have a 2nd key. This is definitely something ICE cars could do.


I was referring to the jargon...

Leaving your ice car running when you are more than 3m away is illegal.

But more important an EV you don’t have a huge engine running wasting a tonne of fuel, you just have a small electric motor efficiently running the fans or aircon depending.

Also, cabin over heat protection only kicks in when the temp rises towards 40 degrees, it will first attempt to just use fans to blow in air from outside, but if that is not enough to keep the cabin under 40 it will use the minimum amount of air con to maintain the cabin at 38 degrees.

Cabin over heat protection uses very little energy, where as leaving your ICE car running would be a huge waste, not to mention blowing poison gas at everyone else in the car park.

so yeah, the old ICE cars can’t really do that, at least not efficiently, safely or legally.

——————

I will leave that jargon to you, because it seems nonsensical to me.