Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Electric cars?

Would you buy an electric car?

  • Already own one

    Votes: 10 5.1%

  • Yes - would definitely buy

    Votes: 43 21.8%

  • Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    Votes: 78 39.6%

  • Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    Votes: 37 18.8%

  • No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    Votes: 25 12.7%

  • No - would never buy one

    Votes: 14 7.1%
  • Total voters
    197
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qldfrog said:
Public transport is a city centric view of the world but electric scooters as in China a freedom licence.
Hard to envisage in Australia between helmet, speed limits on ebikes and power limits on scooters which need a motorbike licence if they are to be useful for commutes
Noted that both @Garpal Gumnut and @SirRumpole like the scooter idea.
Gentlemen, you are not confusing scooters and mobility scooters are you? :)
Quite a frequent sight north of the Brisbane river...
Click to expand...
lol

gg
 
News:

EV investor craze continues. Tesla (NASDAQ: TSLA) saw its market cap surge past $300 billion and investors are piling into other EV makers. Tesla’s shares have more than tripled this year. The market value of Nikola Corp. (NASDAQ: NKLA), an electric truck startup, past Ford (NYSE: F) last month, although the company’s stock has since retreated. The trend shows that investors increasingly believe that EV era will arrive faster than previously thought. Carmakers are rushing to capture a slice of the future, with GM (NYSE: GM) recently announcing that it will develop 20 new EV models by 2023. Including hybrids, the global auto industry will add 350 new models in the next few years.

jog on
duc
 
Well at last some great news on the electric car front, it looks as though they are heading towards a standard plug, thankfully we haven't got millions of EV charge points that may need modifying.:xyxthumbs
At least when we commence a national roll out, the configuration should be fairly standard, rather than a repeat of the 8track 4track cassette wars and the multitude of phone chargers untill micro usb was adopted universally.

https://thedriven.io/2020/07/20/nis...-road-for-electric-vehicle-charging-plug-war/
 
The big boys are starting to get serious, the GM EV Cadillac has some amazing stats.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/cadil...oming-electric-suv-123945.html?trackLink=SMH3
From the article:
The 83cm display is actually an upgrade on the one previewed in the 2021 Cadillac Escalade.
The left-hand zone of the Lyriq's screen will allow the driver to control lighting and the head-up display, while the section behind the steering wheel will be a digital instruments cluster and the rest of the screen will house navigation, infotainment and information on the car's battery.
The Lyriq will be the first Cadillac car to be built on GM's third-generation electric car platform, featuring the company's stackable, pouch-style Ultium batteries, which GM says are capable of offering a top-end range of "400 miles or more" (643km plus)
The car is expected to go on sale in China in 2021, followed by North America in 2022.
 
Car makers are starting to change their operating model, in readiness for electric cars, dealerships and maintenance facilities will become a thing of the past a bit like the T.V repair shops.
Just my opinion.

https://www.couriermail.com.au/moto...e/news-story/2a076d6a1851752a42adcc1a8f2f59e0
From the article:
Mercedes-Benz has pushed forward with a controversial plan to sidestep dealers by introducing an online sales model with fixed prices for all cars from 2022.

Customers will be able to choose to buy their new car online or go into a dealership to purchase their next car.
“This change has already been successfully introduced in Sweden more than twelve months ago and Australia will be another of the earlier markets to make the switch.”

Mercedes expects one in four global sales to be completed online before 2025.

Honda will adopt a similar approach in July 2021, when it will reduce the size of its network and adopt national prices for new cars that currently vary to some degree from dealer to dealer.

The new sales model is similar to that of Tesla, which offers the same no-negotiation prices on its website and in a small number of dealerships owned by the head office. Similarly, Apple’s popular line of laptops and smartphones essentially cost the same price whether bought online or in physical retailers.
 
sptrawler said:
Car makers are starting to change their operating model, in readiness for electric cars, dealerships and maintenance facilities will become a thing of the past a bit like the T.V repair shops.
Just my opinion.

https://www.couriermail.com.au/moto...e/news-story/2a076d6a1851752a42adcc1a8f2f59e0
From the article:
Mercedes-Benz has pushed forward with a controversial plan to sidestep dealers by introducing an online sales model with fixed prices for all cars from 2022.

Customers will be able to choose to buy their new car online or go into a dealership to purchase their next car.
“This change has already been successfully introduced in Sweden more than twelve months ago and Australia will be another of the earlier markets to make the switch.”

Mercedes expects one in four global sales to be completed online before 2025.

Honda will adopt a similar approach in July 2021, when it will reduce the size of its network and adopt national prices for new cars that currently vary to some degree from dealer to dealer.

The new sales model is similar to that of Tesla, which offers the same no-negotiation prices on its website and in a small number of dealerships owned by the head office. Similarly, Apple’s popular line of laptops and smartphones essentially cost the same price whether bought online or in physical retailers.
Click to expand...

Ok. But that has big implications for all the current dealer infrastructure. The yards, the people.
Also wonder about who will be carrying the spare parts for all the vehicles current on the roads?

Be interesting to see the outcome..:cautious:
 
basilio said:
Ok. But that has big implications for all the current dealer infrastructure. The yards, the people.
Also wonder about who will be carrying the spare parts for all the vehicles current on the roads?

Be interesting to see the outcome..:cautious:
Click to expand...
That is just collateral damage when a big push is enacted, the manufacturers will be rubbing their hands with glee, bigger profit margins, less overheads, less re tooling costs, less development costs, less ongoing maintenance, less workforce if any due to less maintenance.
Those with older cars will just have to tighten the belt, the sad side will be it will be those that can least afford it as usual, but that is always the case with rapid change. Don't get in the way of an ideological stampede.:roflmao:

As AGL said in the other thread, they can shut down all their coal generation, if people are prepared to pay for it, as the cost of electricity will sky rocket.
Anything can be done, as long as someone can pay for it, those who can't just become collateral damage.:xyxthumbs
That is the difference between ideologically driven change, rather than a staged transition and where a lot of political differences are delineated.IMO
 
Origin to trail E.V home charging smart controllers. This covers a few of the issues we have already discussed on the forum.
https://thedriven.io/2020/08/07/ori...hargers-to-customers-in-trial-of-future-grid/
From the article:
Electricity retailer Origin Energy is to roll out smart EV chargers to up to 150 customers to test the ability of electric vehicle charging to be remotely monitored, controlled and optimised to minimise impacts on the electricity grid.
“We hope this trial will help us understand how we can maximise the benefits to customers by offering products that reduce their EV charging costs, as well as how we can manage EV charging in a way that helps with grid and network stability.”
While electric vehicles will shift more of the transport sector’s energy use on to the electricity system, they also provide a chance to better coordinate the electricity system, by allowing electric vehicles to absorb otherwise excess wind and solar generation, and potentially feeding power back into the grid through two-way chargers.
Under the Origin Energy trial, the smart chargers will be integrated into Origin Energy’s Virtual Power Plant platform, allowing for factors like wholesale electricity prices and total grid demand to coordinate how and when EVs are charged.

“Smart chargers will be able to talk to the platform, which can remotely direct chargers to switch on and off, or higher or lower, in response to wholesale prices, with benefits for customers in terms of lower charging costs and the NEM as we can more efficiently manage demand and supply in the system,” Lucas added.

“We want to get people thinking about EVs as more than just a car and saving on petrol, they can provide additional value to their owners through battery storage for the home, connected to virtual power plants or used for grid stabilisation, all of which will significantly reduce payback periods and improve the economics of EV ownership for many Australians.”

The deployment of smart charging systems is being supported by an $838,000 grant from the Australian Renewable Energy Agency, recognising the ability to minimise costs for drivers while supporting the reliability of the electricity system will both facilitate greater uptake of electric vehicle models.
“As the uptake of EVs increases, it will be important to efficiently manage the charging of vehicles, to avoid potentially costly impacts on peak demand, associated network charges and grid security issues,” ARENA CEO Darren Miller said.

“Smart charging enables charging at times when demand is lowest and electricity is cheapest, which reduces the burden on the network and the cost to the customer.”
 
sptrawler said:
Origin to trail E.V home charging smart controllers. This covers a few of the issues we have already discussed on the forum.
https://thedriven.io/2020/08/07/ori...hargers-to-customers-in-trial-of-future-grid/
From the article:
Electricity retailer Origin Energy is to roll out smart EV chargers to up to 150 customers to test the ability of electric vehicle charging to be remotely monitored, controlled and optimised to minimise impacts on the electricity grid.
“We hope this trial will help us understand how we can maximise the benefits to customers by offering products that reduce their EV charging costs, as well as how we can manage EV charging in a way that helps with grid and network stability.”
While electric vehicles will shift more of the transport sector’s energy use on to the electricity system, they also provide a chance to better coordinate the electricity system, by allowing electric vehicles to absorb otherwise excess wind and solar generation, and potentially feeding power back into the grid through two-way chargers.
Under the Origin Energy trial, the smart chargers will be integrated into Origin Energy’s Virtual Power Plant platform, allowing for factors like wholesale electricity prices and total grid demand to coordinate how and when EVs are charged.

“Smart chargers will be able to talk to the platform, which can remotely direct chargers to switch on and off, or higher or lower, in response to wholesale prices, with benefits for customers in terms of lower charging costs and the NEM as we can more efficiently manage demand and supply in the system,” Lucas added.

“We want to get people thinking about EVs as more than just a car and saving on petrol, they can provide additional value to their owners through battery storage for the home, connected to virtual power plants or used for grid stabilisation, all of which will significantly reduce payback periods and improve the economics of EV ownership for many Australians.”

The deployment of smart charging systems is being supported by an $838,000 grant from the Australian Renewable Energy Agency, recognising the ability to minimise costs for drivers while supporting the reliability of the electricity system will both facilitate greater uptake of electric vehicle models.
“As the uptake of EVs increases, it will be important to efficiently manage the charging of vehicles, to avoid potentially costly impacts on peak demand, associated network charges and grid security issues,” ARENA CEO Darren Miller said.

“Smart charging enables charging at times when demand is lowest and electricity is cheapest, which reduces the burden on the network and the cost to the customer.”
Click to expand...

That’s awesome that they are getting on the front foot like that, it’s really in their interests, and it’s good for everybody, including people without electric cars, it create higher utilisation of the existing assets.
 
sptrawler said:
Origin to trail E.V home charging smart controllers. This covers a few of the issues we have already discussed on the forum.
https://thedriven.io/2020/08/07/ori...hargers-to-customers-in-trial-of-future-grid/
From the article:
Electricity retailer Origin Energy is to roll out smart EV chargers to up to 150 customers to test the ability of electric vehicle charging to be remotely monitored, controlled and optimised to minimise impacts on the electricity grid.
“We hope this trial will help us understand how we can maximise the benefits to customers by offering products that reduce their EV charging costs, as well as how we can manage EV charging in a way that helps with grid and network stability.”
While electric vehicles will shift more of the transport sector’s energy use on to the electricity system, they also provide a chance to better coordinate the electricity system, by allowing electric vehicles to absorb otherwise excess wind and solar generation, and potentially feeding power back into the grid through two-way chargers.
Under the Origin Energy trial, the smart chargers will be integrated into Origin Energy’s Virtual Power Plant platform, allowing for factors like wholesale electricity prices and total grid demand to coordinate how and when EVs are charged.

“Smart chargers will be able to talk to the platform, which can remotely direct chargers to switch on and off, or higher or lower, in response to wholesale prices, with benefits for customers in terms of lower charging costs and the NEM as we can more efficiently manage demand and supply in the system,” Lucas added.

“We want to get people thinking about EVs as more than just a car and saving on petrol, they can provide additional value to their owners through battery storage for the home, connected to virtual power plants or used for grid stabilisation, all of which will significantly reduce payback periods and improve the economics of EV ownership for many Australians.”

The deployment of smart charging systems is being supported by an $838,000 grant from the Australian Renewable Energy Agency, recognising the ability to minimise costs for drivers while supporting the reliability of the electricity system will both facilitate greater uptake of electric vehicle models.
“As the uptake of EVs increases, it will be important to efficiently manage the charging of vehicles, to avoid potentially costly impacts on peak demand, associated network charges and grid security issues,” ARENA CEO Darren Miller said.

“Smart charging enables charging at times when demand is lowest and electricity is cheapest, which reduces the burden on the network and the cost to the customer.”
Click to expand...

That project pulls together almost all the major points that make widespread integration of EV cars into our energy systems so useful.
  • The capacity to absorb excess solar power.
  • The capacity to act as a virtual battery bank if/when energy use becomes too excessive for peak loads and to stabilise the grid
  • The opportunity to use of peak power to full advantage.
Will be great to see the outcomes and hopefully practical ways to ensure rapid and widespread use of EVs is encouraged.:)
 
basilio said:
That project pulls together almost all the major points that make widespread integration of EV cars into our energy systems so useful.
  • The capacity to absorb excess solar power.
  • The capacity to act as a virtual battery bank if/when energy use becomes too excessive for peak loads and to stabilise the grid
  • The opportunity to use of peak power to full advantage.
Will be great to see the outcomes and hopefully practical ways to ensure rapid and widespread use of EVs is encouraged.:)
Click to expand...

It will interesting when EV's can be used to act like a virtual battery bank, So not only will owning an EV save you a lot by reducing your spending on petrol, but while its parked up it could be earning you credits on your power bill by helping support the grid.
 
Value Collector said:
It will interesting when EV's can be used to act like a virtual battery bank, So not only will owning an EV save you a lot by reducing your spending on petrol, but while its parked up it could be earning you credits on your power bill by helping support the grid.
Click to expand...

So you go back to your car after work and find your battery flat ?

That would need a mighty big jump start from the NRMA !
 
SirRumpole said:
So you go back to your car after work and find your battery flat ?

That would need a mighty big jump start from the NRMA !
Click to expand...

It would be more like plugging your car in when you get home after work at 6pm with and the grid pulling out the remaining charge to support the evening peak demand, and then filling you back up during the low demand so you have a full battery in the morning again.
———————

I would imagine that it would be set to operate within certain levels.

Eg, between fully charged and say 70%.

They currentmy run the virtual power plant system with peoples Tesla power walls, which only have a capacity of 12KWH, where as EVs range between 50KWH and 100KWH.

So even if they only worked within a range of day 20%, (fully charged to 80%) it would be better than a Tesla power wall

again though it would be an opt in basis, imagine if you basically got free car charging because your car was available when you weren’t driving to support the grid.
 
sptrawler said:
Origin to trail E.V home charging smart controllers.
Click to expand...
There's another substantial player in the power industry, one of the gentailers, also going down the track of, as they put it, "EV charging as a service".

Customer plugs it in, they'll charge it at the most appropriate time which means not during the peaks basically.

So there's a few companies with ideas, all ultimately aiming to achieve the same thing.

As for Origin, they already do have a limited presence in the public EV charger business including in places where they don't otherwise retail electricity. They put one in at a Nissan dealership in Hobart some years ago now - notable given that Origin doesn't generate or retail electricity in Tas so in this case is simply involved with the EV charger only. :2twocents
 
Here is my academic background in engineering, a little more than Elon;), not accounting for personal engineering study which I have open access to all the textbooks that universities give their students:

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