ELECTIONS - Labor or Liberal

[somesortoftrader]

The Tories are damned whichever way they jump. Public and private polling consistently indicate that Costello is less popular than Howard. On the other hand, with Howard currently at the helm, the bookies have Labour at $1.37 (for a $1 bet) and the Liberals at $3.10. Also, I don't think that Costello would enjoy the traditional honeymoon, due to his "fart in a space suit" level of popularity. I've also read that Costello doesn't want the leadership until after the election. That is, he "doesn't want to be handed the dirty nappy". The Libs will be throwing a massive amount of resources into being re-elected but FINALLY, FINALLY, FINALLY, it looks hopeful that they're going to meet their Waterloo. If Maxine McKew beats Howard in Bennalong, that would just be the ultimate cream on the cake. Be good to see this divisive and regressive twit of a PM scurrying off with his tail between his legs.

Diatribe like this has sunken the thread into an argy bargy of nothingness.

The Polls & the Bookies are saying a win to Rudd/Labor.... but do they deserve to win? Rudd still needs to offer something for mine... winning on the back of a "its time" mandate is frog droppings!

I say bring on the election campaign and lets some ticker.

 

[2020hindsight]

here's an old post that introduced (accidentally perhaps lol) some of the minor parties ...
and some of the other "clashes" that the election campaign may yet introduce for the major parties to lock horns over.

but, as you say, (somesorta) , bring on the REAL election campaign , -
.........
which, arguably, (when it does finally start) - will already have grey hair lol

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=169060&highlight=dichotomies#post169060

As we suggested earlier in this guide, online censorship and digital free speech have become something of a crusade for enthusiasts of various persuasions, with truth caught in the crossfire while industry groups and government agencies tread warily (or merely wearily) across the battlefield

let's agree that, in Aus, it's a privelege we enjoy to be able to disagree - without a midnight knock on the door

 

[Whiskers]

The Polls & the Bookies are saying a win to Rudd/Labor.... but do they deserve to win? Rudd still needs to offer something for mine... winning on the back of a "its time" mandate is frog droppings!

I think the most forgotten, or rather dissafected groups from the Lib's policies perspective are the elderly and youth. The aged care problems and IR controvicies, probably the two biggest issues.

No doubt Howard will come up with some 'carrots' once the campaign is officially launched, but the feeling I am getting is that most people want a government with more social conscience.

Traditionally Labour wears that mantle and Rudd seems to be quite acceptable as leader.

As the old saying goes... oppositions don't win power, governments loose power. In this case I just can't see howard winning back peoples confidence. I believe he is in the similar position and the only thing he can do to salvage any hope for his party is resign as beattie has done.

Otherwise, it may well come down to just that... 'it's time for a change'.

 

[skint]

Diatribe like this has sunken the thread into an argy bargy of nothingness.

The Polls & the Bookies are saying a win to Rudd/Labor.... but do they deserve to win? Rudd still needs to offer something for mine... winning on the back of a "its time" mandate is frog droppings!

I say bring on the election campaign and lets some ticker.

Read my post. Read your post. Which one offered more substantive evidence of the likely outcome of the next federal election. Does Labour desrve to win? - Different discussion. Happy to have it.

 

[numbercruncher]

Diatribe like this has sunken the thread into an argy bargy of nothingness.

The Polls & the Bookies are saying a win to Rudd/Labor.... but do they deserve to win? Rudd still needs to offer something for mine... winning on the back of a "its time" mandate is frog droppings!

I say bring on the election campaign and lets some ticker.

You should check out Labors website, if there isnt a proposal in there that you find substantially appealing I would be flabbergasted.

I believe all voters at this election should look further than short term gain and think long term sustainability with Australias best interests at heart, it sure seems to me that Labors plans will deliver on this.

Im afraid if Liberals remain they will continue to squander money on patch jobs and reactionary fixes, Labors plans are proactive and will steer us towards an Sustainable and prosperous future.

What scares me to death is Howard is setting us up to become exactly like the US, at a time when we should be becoming uniquely Australian, they are quickly evaporating our individual identity and good reputation.

 

[The Mint Man]

You should check out Labors website, if there isnt a proposal in there that you find substantially appealing I would be flabbergasted.

I believe all voters at this election should look further than short term gain and think long term sustainability with Australias best interests at heart, it sure seems to me that Labors plans will deliver on this.

Im afraid if Liberals remain they will continue to squander money on patch jobs and reactionary fixes, Labors plans are proactive and will steer us towards an Sustainable and prosperous future.

What scares me to death is Howard is setting us up to become exactly like the US, at a time when we should be becoming uniquely Australian, they are quickly evaporating our individual identity and good reputation.

Hey numbercruncher,
Could you please provide the link to the labor website, I would like to look up their Tax policy and do some number crunching of my own

Cheers

 

[numbercruncher]

Howdy The Mint Man


http://http://labor.com.au/

http://http://kevin07.com.au/



If you want your vote to count this year, Make sure you are enrolled, Johnny has taken a feather out of his Idol G.Dubbyas book and altered the rules, not enrolled when the election is called and you cant vote.

Just another sign of what life under Howard will be like in the future, Imagine the rules of our police state when hes 90 and still running the show I reckon by then speaking against the Government would probably be an act of Terrorism punishable by 10 years or a finacial sum of equivalent pain. Ok im going a bit over the top, I did vote Liberal the last couple of elections but they are now freaking me out.

I think the swing to Labor is shaping up to be massive, my 11 year old neice was lecturing my Wife about how terrible Howards government have become, told so by there teachers !! The new Gen have be taught from an early age to be very enviromentally resposible, something Johnny and co currently have zero credibility in.

 

[YOUNG_TRADER]

I love lamp!

I love lamp!

 

[arminius]

hi all,

if howard handed costello the top job it would be nothing more than a hospital pass, and maybe destroy costello as a political force.

would the libs have the foresight to see past this election and rally their forces for 2009, with PT at the helm. going on their performance as a government, id have to say no.

a lib backbencher was crying the other day that all the attention was on JH and not 'the team'. unfortunately 'the team' are reserve grade at best. as many have said, everyone is depressed by downer, turnbull doesnt appear to have popular support, and the less said about the rest the better.

i think the libs will let howard get washed down the drain with all the filthy bath water and return in 2009 with Mal Brough at the helm.
of course by then we'd have had 3 yrs of prosperity, security, and social justice and the libs will not hold power for AT LEAST 10-15 yrs.

for those who are scared, especially about the US alliance, remember that bush is gone in a yr and either clinton or obama will be boss, both ideological allies of the ALP.

 

[trinity]

What scares me to death is Howard is setting us up to become exactly like the US, at a time when we should be becoming uniquely Australian, they are quickly evaporating our individual identity and good reputation

That would really be sad if Australia becomes more and more like the US. What's with all those US tellie shows brainwashing our kids? I have personally never been to the US, but, scares the !!! out of me when I hear of kids going to school and some looney toon decides to blow everyone's head off.

Anyways, election is to be called soon ... so, let's hope and pray for the best.

 

[Julia]

,


i think the libs will let howard get washed down the drain with all the filthy bath water and return in 2009 with Mal Brough at the helm.

Now, that is a sensible suggestion. I think Mal Brough has a lot of promise.

 

[Duckman#72]

The Tories are damned whichever way they jump. Public and private polling consistently indicate that Costello is less popular than Howard. On the other hand, with Howard currently at the helm, the bookies have Labour at $1.37 (for a $1 bet) and the Liberals at $3.10. The Libs will be throwing a massive amount of resources into being re-elected but FINALLY, FINALLY, FINALLY, it looks hopeful that they're going to meet their Waterloo. If Maxine McKew beats Howard in Bennalong, that would just be the ultimate cream on the cake. Be good to see this divisive and regressive twit of a PM scurrying off with his tail between his legs.

Lions headed to Perth to play West Coast earlier this year with the Eagles at the unbackable odds of $1.20 and the Lions at $7.00. The Lions won.

As for the comment about the 11 year old niece who's teachers had been talking about "the terrible John Howard" - that is nothing new. I had a teacher in Year 7 that used to tell us daily how all the problems in Queensland could be related back to Joh. Union reps have been pushing their own agenda for years!!

Skint - I'm sorry that the last 11 years have left you so obviously scarred.

Duckman

 

[chops_a_must]

Now, that is a sensible suggestion. I think Mal Brough has a lot of promise.

I think all of you guys are way off the mark and are missing the most obvious candidate, Andrew Peacock. With everything that has gone wrong with Howard of late, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if he pops up somewhere.

Perhaps the soufflé can rise thrice. Lol!

I'm trying to find a fast forward clip of the Starship Free Enterprise to go along with this... no luck.

What's my age again? What's my age again? Lol!

 

[2020hindsight]

chops

An Droopy ****?
lol - not bludy likely

Here's that post again - Media watch
NB - the govt are seriously pushing crap here !!! - misinformation about the Iraq war
http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s2029170.htm
seriously disturbing !! - seriously dishonest crap.

Still there are pockets of blind loyalty to the Government and Defence Minister Brendan Nelson knows exactly where to find them. In this election year he's hand picked just three journalists to join him on his travels to Iraq and Afghanistan. They're government barrackers - Herald Sun columnist Andrew Bolt, The Australian's political editor, Dennis Shanahan and The Sydney Morning Herald's columnist, Miranda Devine.

Two - Miranda Devine and Dennis Shanahan have just been to Iraq with the Minister. And both splashed with front page stories that the war in Iraq was now going much better than you might have thought.

There was this in the Sydney Morning Herald from Miranda Devine:

We've sent al-Qaeda into a spin, says US chief in Iraq
David Petraeus, the US military commander in Iraq, has given a preview of his forthcoming report to Congress, citing a dramatic reduction in violence in Baghdad and foreshadowing a "gradual" reduction in the number of troops in Iraq…he used as a benchmark of progress the number of "ethno-sectarian deaths"…In Baghdad, the monthly death toll has fallen by more than two-thirds. In the rest of Iraq, such deaths have dropped by more than 50 per cent...

— The Sydney Morning Herald, We've sent al-Qaeda into a spin, says US chief in Iraq, 31st August, 2007

Read "We've sent al-Qaeda into a spin, says US chief in Iraq", The Sydney Morning Herald, 31st August, 2007.

And here's what Dennis Shanahan wrote in The Australian.

Surge working, says US generalThe US troop surge in Iraq has thrown al-Qa'ida off balance and produced a dramatic reduction in sectarian killings and a drop in roadside bombings. … General Petraeus told The Australian during a face-to-face interview at his Baghdad headquarters there had been a 75 per cent reduction in religious and ethnic killings since last year…

— The Australian, Surge working, says US general, 31st August, 2007

Read "Surge working, says US general", The Australian, 31st August, 2007.

The entire US strategy in Iraq hangs on General David Petraeus's report back to Congress this week on whether the troop surge is working.

No wonder the Reuters news wire picked up on The Australian's story - that the surge was working wonders - and that papers like the New York Times followed that.

Read Reuters's clarification to their 31st August, 2007 story "U.S. Iraq commander says "surge" working-paper".

In The Australian, Dennis Shanahan thought there'd be political implications here.

General David Petraeus's positive findings on the "surge" in Iraq will have ramifications for the Australian election campaign.

— The Australian, Good news on Iraq to hit home, 31st August, 2007

Well if they do it will be because readers believed The Australian's front page.
But it was wrong as the paper had to admit three days later.

Clarification
A report in The Australian on Friday ("Surge working says US general" page 1) quoted the top US commander in Iraq, General David Petraeus, as saying there had been a 75 per cent reduction in religious and ethnic killings since last year. This figure is for Baghdad and compares August with last December.

— The Australian, Clarification, 3rd September, 2007

Last December registered the peak of civilian deaths in Iraq's civil war.
A very convenient month to use for a comparison.
Dennis Shanahan says...

I used the term ‘last year’. And General Petraeus’s office wanted it to be precise and requested that it was printed December to August.

— Statement from Dennis Shanahan (Political editor, The Australian) to Media Watch

So what are the real figures on Iraq's latest violence?

At least 1,771 civilians were killed in Iraq in August, up seven percent on the previous month, according to figures compiled by three Iraqi ministries and seen by AFP. August's toll is significantly higher than the number for February, when the United States launched a "surge" during which Baghdad and its surrounds were flooded with 28,500 extra troops …

— Agence France-Presse, Civilian deaths in Iraq up in August, 1st September, 2007

Read "Civilian deaths in Iraq up in August", Agence France-Presse, 1st September, 2007.

In fact, on the very same day Australians were reading about Iraq's lessening violence from Dennis Shanahan and Miranda Devine, Associated Press published this.

Baghdad Civilian deaths rose in August to their second-highest monthly level this year…That raises questions about whether U.S. strategy is working days before Congress receives landmark reports that will decide the course of the war.
— Associated Press, AP's Count: Contrary to Claims - Civilian Deaths Soaring in Iraq, 1st September, 2007

Washington-based reporters point out that General Petraeus has been talking up the situation in Iraq for years, despite the slide into chaos.

He always manages to paint a hopeful picture.

In 2004 as a 2 star division commander…in 2005 as a 3 star training Iraqi forces.

It’s great to see the determination of many of the partners.

And today after years of setbacks and violence the now 4 star General remains optimistic…Petraeus says there’s political progress in Iraq as well despite a series of reports that say there has been next to none.

— ABC News (USA), 4th September, 2007

That's the kind of analysis a journalist who knows the story can bring and presumably, why Defence Minister Nelson hasn't been travelling with expert security reporters.

There were other signs that things mightn't be as positive as the General suggested.

The day before Devine and Shanahan were published, a major story on Iraq - leaked to the Washington Post - was breaking across America.

Report Finds Little Progress On Iraq Goals
Iraq has failed to meet all but three of 18 congressionally mandated benchmarks for political and military progress…The document questions whether some aspects of a more positive assessment by the White House last month adequately reflected the range of views...within the administration.

— The Washington Post, Report Finds Little Progress On Iraq Goals, 30th August, 2007

Read "Report Finds Little Progress On Iraq Goals", The Washington Post, 30th August, 2007.

The Sydney Morning Herald did run that story.
But on Page 14, while Miranda Devine's story ran on the front page.

It only ran on page 13 of The Australian a week later when it was officially released.

And why did Shanahan and Devine miss this negative assessment on Iraq since the start of the surge, that General Petraeus was giving to others.

The most senior US commander in Iraq has said that progress in bringing security to the country had been uneven and in some cases disappointing...General David Petraeus said Iraq's political leaders had not made the gains hoped for under the US troop "surge" strategy. “it has not worked out as we hoped".
— BBC News Online, Petraeus says Iraq gains 'uneven', 7th September, 2007

Read "Petraeus says Iraq gains 'uneven'", BBC News Online, 7th September, 2007.

Despite not mentioning that lack of political progress Miranda Devine says...

Gen Petraeus' September 7 letter to troops mirrors what he told me in his office in Baghdad and what I reported in my news story of August 31.

Any "tonal" discordance is a product of your imagination.

— Email from Miranda Devine (The Sydney Morning Herald) to Media Watch

Still Miranda Devine was prepared to pit her knowledge, against Opposition leader Kevin Rudd's understanding of the country.

He should go to Iraq and Afghanistan and see for himself the important work our troops are doing and judge for himself their morale.

— The Sydney Morning Herald, These boots make a difference, 6th September, 2007

Read "These boots make a difference", The Sydney Morning Herald, 6th September, 2007.

Miranda Devine's own instant expert status was achieved in less than 48 hours in Iraq.

Her elevation to visiting war correspondent has been met with "scoffing" derision within Fairfax.

Still, from Brendan Nelson's perspective, the selection of friendly reporters to cover his final trip to Iraq before the election worked a treat.
That's the show for this week.

 

[explod]

chops


Here's that post again - Media watch
NB - the govt are seriously pushing crap here !!! - misinformation about the Iraq war
http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s2029170.htm
seriously disturbing !! - seriously dishonest crap.

Most who have made up their minds for the election have already switched off because of such percieved manipulation and destruction of the media since the start of the war, and our disgraceful participation in it.

Too late, the backroom libs are realising this finally; and the adage that, "you can fool some of the people some of the time but not all..." etc

Interesting, that when dollars are being spent and the lives of our own are at risk, the ultimate auditor's are the electorate

 

[ghotib]

I think all of you guys are way off the mark and are missing the most obvious candidate, Andrew Peacock. With everything that has gone wrong with Howard of late, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if he pops up somewhere.

Perhaps the soufflé can rise thrice. Lol!

I'm trying to find a fast forward clip of the Starship Free Enterprise to go along with this... no luck.

What's my age again? What's my age again? Lol!

HOOOOOWWWWLLLLL!!!!

Thanks you Chops. This is a glorious time for lovers of politics as theatre, but that's introduced a truly wonderful comic sub-plot to a classical Greek tragedy.

Hmmm.. HOW old did you say you were??

 

[chops_a_must]

HOOOOOWWWWLLLLL!!!!

Thanks you Chops. This is a glorious time for lovers of politics as theatre, but that's introduced a truly wonderful comic sub-plot to a classical Greek tragedy.

Hmmm.. HOW old did you say you were??

I don't know, but I was a very politically astute 3 year old when Peacock was having his second go. Lol!

 

[skint]

Lions headed to Perth to play West Coast earlier this year with the Eagles at the unbackable odds of $1.20 and the Lions at $7.00. The Lions won.

As for the comment about the 11 year old niece who's teachers had been talking about "the terrible John Howard" - that is nothing new. I had a teacher in Year 7 that used to tell us daily how all the problems in Queensland could be related back to Joh. Union reps have been pushing their own agenda for years!!

Skint - I'm sorry that the last 11 years have left you so obviously scarred.

Duckman

Whilst it's true that a political party/footy team etc.. can win against unbackable odds, it happens rarely. Otherwise all the bookies would be broke long ago.
I haven't read the post about the "11 year old niece", but as for Joh, your Year 7 teacher wasn't too far wrong. Recall Joh's proposal to turn the Barrier Reef into a huge oil field or perhaps his attempt to turn the Daintree into suburban lots. How much tourist income would Queenslanders now be doing without if he had his way? Joh had Queensland so gerry mandered that he kept being re-elected with a paltry percent of the vote. When he ran for PM, he didn't win a single seat in Queensland or elsewhere without the benefit of the gerry mander. Recall also that 11 out of 12 jurors found him to guilty of gross corruption. The 12th juror turned out to be a fanatical Joh supporter and the jury ended up being hung. On a positive note though, I think Joh is doing his best work right now!

 

[Duckman#72]

as for Joh, your Year 7 teacher wasn't too far wrong. Recall Joh's proposal to turn the Barrier Reef into a huge oil field or perhaps his attempt to turn the Daintree into suburban lots. How much tourist income would Queenslanders now be doing without if he had his way? Joh had Queensland so gerry mandered that he kept being re-elected with a paltry percent of the vote. When he ran for PM, he didn't win a single seat in Queensland or elsewhere without the benefit of the gerry mander. Recall also that 11 out of 12 jurors found him to guilty of gross corruption. The 12th juror turned out to be a fanatical Joh supporter and the jury ended up being hung. On a positive note though,

I think Joh is doing his best work right now!

I think my Grade 7 teacher would agree with that statement!!!

......actually your ravings are giving me flashbacks.......oh it couldn't be...could it?.... NO WAY......you're not Mr Hansen are you?

Oh ****.....I had no idea who I was talking to.....sorry Sir......won't happen again Sir......yes Sir....more power to the Unions Sir.......yes Sir .......completely corrupt imbecile Sir....yes Sir....go Kevin 07....whatever you want me to think Sir.

 

[happytown]

this may just explain a thing or two,

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...cs10sep10,0,5349018.story?coll=la-home-center

Study finds left-wing brain, right-wing brain

Even in humdrum nonpolitical decisions, liberals and conservatives literally think differently, researchers show.

By Denise Gellene, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
September 10, 2007

Exploring the neurobiology of politics, scientists have found that liberals tolerate ambiguity and conflict better than conservatives because of how their brains work.

...

Previous psychological studies have found that conservatives tend to be more structured and persistent in their judgments whereas liberals are more open to new experiences.

...

Based on the results, he said, liberals could be expected to more readily accept new social, scientific or religious ideas.

...

The tendency of conservatives to block distracting information could be a good thing depending on the situation

...

a meeting of the minds between conservatives and liberals looked difficult given the study results.

...

link to the study,

note: sub req'd for article, abstract only appears below:

http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/nn1979.html

Neurocognitive correlates of liberalism and conservatism

Political scientists and psychologists have noted that, on average, conservatives show more structured and persistent cognitive styles, whereas liberals are more responsive to informational complexity, ambiguity and novelty. We tested the hypothesis that these profiles relate to differences in general neurocognitive functioning using event-related potentials, and found that greater liberalism was associated with stronger conflict-related anterior cingulate activity, suggesting greater neurocognitive sensitivity to cues for altering a habitual response pattern.

cheers