ELECTIONS - Labor or Liberal

Has Howard erred in not sacking Costello as Treasurer after Costello's unfavourable published opinions of Howard in the book release this week?

Isn't Costello guilty of disloyalty and therefore deserving/needing disciplining rather than support?

Has Howard shown a recent streak of weakness in supporting, rather than disciplining the Treasurer, in view of the disloyalty?

Are Costello's revelations an attempt for him to finally assume the Liberal leadership, even if it means he is at first to be consigned to Leader of the Opposition?

Will these events have any effect on the upcoming Federal election, or is Howard already a "dead man walking"?

Any ideas/discussion? regards. YN.

Does Howard have the power to sack Costello? More importantly would it be a costly move if he could? Costello does have his supporters and a recent article suggested that Downer was given the job of tapping Howard on the shoulder asking him to move aside if the polls didn't improve...they did for a while there and that saved him, so not even Howard is safe as leader of the Libs.

It's not like we haven't seen a power struggle b/w a PM and treasurer before. Keating used the numbers to oust Hawke and during the Libs darkest days Peacock didn't want to work with Howard.

As Abbot stated on Lateline last night. As long as the party can work together professionally, social interaction is insignificant.

Anyway, the ALP have had their own hiccup of late. With the revelation that Rudd's brother as ALP member donated AUD10K to the Lib/National coalition.

i find this costello howard saga irrelvant to the whole debate!...
costello just comes across as a spoilt child throwing a tantrum, whilst howard comes across as he always did, a shrewd, coniving, politician who lets nothing get in the way of getting re-elected!

but heck, that whats democracy is all about, hence, nothing that howards does is unexpected... his job is to get the liberals re-elected, simple as that... whats actually good for australia in the long term comes a distant second.

its like nelson's comments on oil... heck, everyone knows its about oil... yet everyone is shocked when nelson said it!

sometimes i wonder about these political commentators... or is society just so dumbed down nowadays that things like the above actually matter....

maybe it is, i guess paris hilton, beckams in LA seem to regularly make the front page news... do people really want this news, its obvious they do, cause the magazines and newspapers sell and make money!

ok, thats the end of my friday rant... bring on the weekend:alcohol:

YELNATS said:

Has Howard erred in not sacking Costello as Treasurer after Costello's unfavourable published opinions of Howard in the book release this week?

Isn't Costello guilty of disloyalty and therefore deserving/needing disciplining rather than support?

Has Howard shown a recent streak of weakness in supporting, rather than disciplining the Treasurer, in view of the disloyalty?

Are Costello's revelations an attempt for him to finally assume the Liberal leadership, even if it means he is at first to be consigned to Leader of the Opposition?

Will these events have any effect on the upcoming Federal election, or is Howard already a "dead man walking"?

Any ideas/discussion? regards. YN.

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I first heard the above expression "dead man walking" used in a political sense when Robert (Bob) Dole ran as the Republican Presidentrial candidate against Clinton. Sure enough, he lost. According to the polls, Howard may not only lose the election, but also also his own seat. I think that the polls will tighten up during the election campaign. IMO it seems that voters are no longer listening to the Howard Government. Maybe Howard is now being seen by many as "yesterday's man".
I feel that the Iraq issue is weighing him down a bit together with IR. If it wasn't for the new IR Laws, I reckon Howard would win the next election in a canter. Judging by his partial backdown on the IR laws, I feel that Howard would privately acknowledge that politically he regrets having introduced them. Poll after poll reflects the fact that many of Howard's battlers aren't happy with the IR laws. Increased interest rates aren't helping either. Still unemployment is very low and economic growth is continuing at a sound rate (thanks partly to the resources boom). Still the Howard Government deserves partial credit for Australia's economic circumstances. Perhaps voters feel that 11 years in power is enough.
I'm still undecided.

ok, thats the end of my friday rant... bring on the weekend :alcohol:

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Bit early for the weekend, although still time for a liquid lunch ;-)

trading_rookie said:

Anyway, the ALP have had their own hiccup of late. With the revelation that Rudd's brother as ALP member donated AUD10K to the Lib/National coalition.

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I guess both sides have their skeletons in the cupboard.

Peter's brother Tim, former mayor of St Kilda, was often referred to as "that leftist cleric" by Jeff Kennett, and Peter himself was for a time an office-bearer of the Social Democratic Students Association of Victoria, an affiliate of the Victorian Branch of Australian Young Labor

YELNATS said:

I guess both sides have their skeletons in the cupboard.

Peter's brother Tim, former mayor of St Kilda, was often referred to as "that leftist cleric" by Jeff Kennett, and Peter himself was for a time an office-bearer of the Social Democratic Students Association of Victoria, an affiliate of the Victorian Branch of Australian Young Labor

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At one stage, Tim Costello strongly considered running for the Democrats in the Senate. I would view him as being a small "l" liberal in terms of political philosophy. Whilst Mayor of St Kilda he cleaned up the area's image. Property prices there have since gone through the roof.

Rafa said:

costello just comes across as a spoilt child throwing a tantrum, whilst howard comes across as he always did, a shrewd, coniving, politician who lets nothing get in the way of getting re-elected!

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At the end of the day, Costello is only human and he obviously finds it difficult to bottle up the incessant stream of BS and lies from Howard. Imagine trying to appear pally with somebody whom you truely despise.

bingk6 said:

At the end of the day, Costello is only human and he obviously finds it difficult to bottle up the incessant stream of BS and lies from Howard. Imagine trying to appear pally with somebody whom you truely despise.

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Reminds me of Keating's frustration with Hawke. Remember the Kirribilly Agreement. Its too late for Howard to even consider handing over the reins to Costello as it would be seen as panicking.

What surprised me was that Costello knew the biography would come out about now and could only harm the Liberals' chances of re-election. Gives Labor plenty of ammunition along the lines of "disunity" for a start. But imo more important than that is Costello's comment that he feels the country's financial health is in danger because Howard is pushing him (the Treasurer) into more spending than the Treasurer feels is sustainable or responsible.

I don't know whether he does in fact feel this, or whether he was feeling sufficiently chagrined and frustrated to suggest this merely as a means of "getting back" at John Howard.

No surprise about how he feels, but I still don't understand why he would want to so clearly shoot his own party in the foot at a time when the outlook for them is so bad already.

I've only seen the 7.30 Report interview with John Howard plus the Lateline one with Tony Abbot (who did little to ameliorate the situation). Has Costello himself offered any justification for his dummy spit?

gday all,
its interesting stuff. just how deep does the resentment go? academic really, but its a good example of a disintigrating govt. ( live by the sword etc).

im quite upset at the mo.
the haneef thing is so wrong at a fundamental level, as was dave hicks. any society is built around justice, and when it is shunted aside that society will start to come undone at the most basic levels. why should our children not lie when it is perfected at the top?

i saw some photos from iraq on a US website late last night. US troops dragged an iraqi bloke about 20-25 yo out of his car in baghdad. they had shot him dead because he was driving slowly around the block and didnt stop when they said to stop. an old lady was crying nearby.

the dead bloke was a cabbie looking for her house.
i dont really blame the troops, as they were undoubtedly shi tting themselves, expecting to be blown up at any minute, like thousands of their colleagues. the cabbie is one of over half a million Iraqis.

Bush, Cheney, Howard and the rest of our government have done this. this is not the country i want my two kids to grow up in.

as far as i can tell, the one thing that binds the government's supporters is their joy at the state of the economy. pc admits jh was a very ordinary treasurer, and a spendthrift pm. thats ok, we have heaps of money floating around, because OF A MINING BOOM.

is there an economist/ accountant out there who can calculate how much extra income Oz has received in the last 5-10 years over and above what we had in the past. RBA figures show x5 the income of 1989. (table H3 RBA stats) if i earnt $1000 a week then suddenly earnt $5000 a week im sure i could put lobster instread of rissoles on the table.

i truly think most sane and balanced aussies see the govt for what it is, and when the implosions continue the less informed may also see.

the house of cards built on fear and lies will come crashing down in November.
have a great weekend all. go GBG, LYC, AGS.

haven't heard much from costello, tho howard did indicate costello was on ABC radio in the morning...

anyway...

i don't think anything here is new...

we all know that howards only motivation is to get re-elected and will do anything to get there... regardless of the long term consequences, be they economic, social or environmental. so whats the big deal

Julia said:

What surprised me was that Costello knew the biography would come out about now and could only harm the Liberals' chances of re-election. Gives Labor plenty of ammunition along the lines of "disunity" for a start. But imo more important than that is Costello's comment that he feels the country's financial health is in danger because Howard is pushing him (the Treasurer) into more spending than the Treasurer feels is sustainable or responsible.

I don't know whether he does in fact feel this, or whether he was feeling sufficiently chagrined and frustrated to suggest this merely as a means of "getting back" at John Howard.

No surprise about how he feels, but I still don't understand why he would want to so clearly shoot his own party in the foot at a time when the outlook for them is so bad already.

I've only seen the 7.30 Report interview with John Howard plus the Lateline one with Tony Abbot (who did little to ameliorate the situation). Has Costello himself offered any justification for his dummy spit?

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Good question - why Costello wants to shoot his own party in the foot at a time when the outlook for them is so bad already.

It agains shows that he makes a good treasurer, not a good PM! Personally I like Costello a lot more than Howard, but he is such as technical (per se) person that he doesn't make a good political figure.

arminius said:

the haneef thing is so wrong at a fundamental level, as was dave hicks. any society is built around justice, and when it is shunted aside that society will start to come undone at the most basic levels. why should our children not lie when it is perfected at the top?

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the only people Haneef has to blame are his terrorist cousins. Australia has strong anti-terror laws for a reason. A

And hicks???? Please. it simply amazes me that people sympathise with this self-confessed terrorist supporter. It is sickening.

Bush, Cheney, Howard and the rest of our government have done this. this is not the country i want my two kids to grow up in.

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of course, and the terrorists and the insurgents in iraq who kill innocent civilians daily?

i truly think most sane and balanced aussies see the govt for what it is, and when the implosions continue the less informed may also see.

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continue? what implosions are those?

Julia said:

But imo more important than that is Costello's comment that he feels the country's financial health is in danger because Howard is pushing him (the Treasurer) into more spending than the Treasurer feels is sustainable or responsible.

I don't know whether he does in fact feel this, or whether he was feeling sufficiently chagrined and frustrated to suggest this merely as a means of "getting back" at John Howard.

No surprise about how he feels, but I still don't understand why he would want to so clearly shoot his own party in the foot at a time when the outlook for them is so bad already.

I've only seen the 7.30 Report interview with John Howard plus the Lateline one with Tony Abbot (who did little to ameliorate the situation). Has Costello himself offered any justification for his dummy spit?

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To me it is fairly obvious.

It is well known that Howard is an economic hack (maybe not on these boards), and an outright failure as a treasuer, yet he has tried to claim credit for Australia's recent economic performance. Why wouldn't Costello therefore be trying to set the record straight? Especially when Howard himself and anyone else that KNOWS his performance has tried their utmost to hide his actual economic performance.

But aside from this, I don't think Costello has any fundamental allegiance to the Liberal party. It is known that his wife was given to him by the libs to get him to run for them, as he was at the time, an up and coming future Labor party gun. In fact, I think he is actually more moderate than a lot of ALP members.

So what does he owe the libs? Why should he let Howard the incompetent take credit for his work?

Julia said:

What surprised me was that Costello knew the biography would come out about now and could only harm the Liberals' chances of re-election. Gives Labor plenty of ammunition along the lines of "disunity" for a start. But imo more important than that is Costello's comment that he feels the country's financial health is in danger because Howard is pushing him (the Treasurer) into more spending than the Treasurer feels is sustainable or responsible.

I don't know whether he does in fact feel this, or whether he was feeling sufficiently chagrined and frustrated to suggest this merely as a means of "getting back" at John Howard.

No surprise about how he feels, but I still don't understand why he would want to so clearly shoot his own party in the foot at a time when the outlook for them is so bad already.

I've only seen the 7.30 Report interview with John Howard plus the Lateline one with Tony Abbot (who did little to ameliorate the situation). Has Costello himself offered any justification for his dummy spit?

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Hi Julia,

I just feel that Costello needs to grow up a little. Unity is very important. Any whiff that a party is disunited will lead to further falls in opinion polls. Yes, Costello wants to be PM one day. He just has to wait his turn even if it has been a long time.

hey b,

would u mind telling us a little about yourself, what u do, where you're from, hobbies etc, as im kind of interested to know what sort of person thinks like you do.

I guess both sides have their skeletons in the cupboard.

Peter's brother Tim, former mayor of St Kilda, was often referred to as "that leftist cleric" by Jeff Kennett, and Peter himself was for a time an office-bearer of the Social Democratic Students Association of Victoria, an affiliate of the Victorian Branch of Australian Young Labor

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Yes, I was aware of that, but really no real surprise there, many people in their youth are more centre-left leaning than they are right. It’s once young adults have to work to have something that they realise the greens employment policy ‘if you don’t want to work, you don’t have to’ doesn’t sit well with them.

Costello became more conservative once he graduated (like a lot of young adults) and I doubt he’d ever join the ALP. To prove it, he was a founding member of the economic think tank the New Right in the late 1980’s (he became a member of the Upper House in 1990) that has strong links to the Lib Party and is hated by the social-left element of the ALP.

I believe one of the reasons why Howard and Costello don’t get along socially is because Costello still holds some moderate views over Howards stern ultra-conservative ones.

In any event, this isn’t the Liberal Party of the Menzies or Fraser era's, when it was a club for the WASPs.

Take Joe Hockey (Hockeidonian) for example. As he puts it, the first Arab on the front bench. He was named after one of Labor’s favourite sons – Joesph Benedict Chifley. At Sydney Uni he was a very visable student union leader and was approached by a very senior ALP figure (he won’t say who as the person is still alive – you can probably assume it was Whitlam) to join the ALP, but
realised even though society had to help it’s fellow men, there was nothing wrong with individual enterprise and reward for innovation – something Costello realised as well.

If anything Costello has only himself to blame for not taking over the top job while in opposition. It was basically thrown at him in 1995 but he turned it down…the rest as they say is history ;-)

But imo more important than that is Costello's comment that he feels the country's financial health is in danger because Howard is pushing him (the Treasurer) into more spending than the Treasurer feels is sustainable or responsible.

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Not that dangerous. Howard wanted GST to be lowered from 10% to 8% in 1998 and got the hairy eyeball from Costello. Howard is the CEO and Costello the CFO. Like in any business you’re going to want to spent to entice your customers (or voters in this example) and it’s up to your CFO to let you or not. If you have a weak CFO, the CEO can do what he wants. Costello is obviously a good CFO (well depends on what view you take – we’d all rather be paying 8% GST to 10%) who controls the purse strings.

we all know that howards only motivation is to get re-elected and will do anything to get there...

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Sounds very much like Rudd – although it will be his first term. Won’t be holding my breath though to see how he’ll solve the housing affordability fiasco, nor anything else he’s promising…

It agains shows that he makes a good treasurer, not a good PM! Personally I like Costello a lot more than Howard, but he is such as technical (per se) person that he doesn't make a good political figure.

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Yeah but just watch him stick it to the opposition during quesiton time! “Hello meals on wheels this is Sharon Burrows calling! From the church of later-day unionists" !!! ;-)

It’s once young adults have to work to have something that they realise the greens unemployment policy ‘if you don’t want to work, you don’t have to’ doesn’t sit well with them.

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...that should of read employment policy.

Hey Joe, how come the edit option is missing for previous posts? If you added a time stamp to when a post was re-edited it would take care of any liability issues if that was of concern.

It's just frustating when you look back at one of your posts' and notice silly things like the above not to mention spelling/grammar mistakes.

[Fixed it for you... Cheers]

If only Hewson got voted in......

I just want to see Howard squirm again like he did after the Obama 'incident' hahaha

And "B", Hick's confession was made under duress, therefore not admissable in a normal court of law.

Fear fear fear fear fear fear fear fear fear fear fear fear

Who are we at war with this week? Iraqi's, hippies, aboriginals, unionists, Costello?