Economic implications of a SARS/Coronavirus outbreak

[Dona Ferentes]

Hope you do not assume i am registered in a tax heaven?;-)
No just fair dinkum Australian asic pty ltd but most income from OS in the past few years.

No, just wanting the thread to get back onto economic aspects

I think there are going to be many amazing implications of this virus. To quote Comrade V I Ulyanov
"There are decades where nothing happens, and there are weeks where decades happen.”

I would prefer to focus on issues and not go up cul-de-sacs (like wet markets). And if we can't achieve reform now, what hope is there?

 

[Value Collector]

I specifically pointed out otherwise. Your desire to assume I said something I didn't, rather than read what I actually said, is your own fault, not mine.

The hypothetical single-case origin of a virus entering the human population is a separate issue than the proliferation of a virus. One is plausible at any place humans come into contact with animals, especially if alive but potentially if dead, but the scenario suggested, which is the one I was responding to, makes zero sense; you can not make a virus replicate in a dead body. You can not infect a dead body with a virus (this is unlike other pathogens such as many bacteria, which can proliferate in dead tissue).

If I had COVID-19 and I went to a market which exclusively sold dead bats of any species you like, or dead pangolins, or dead snakes, or dead whatever animal you like, it would be no more dangerous than a vegetable market or chess tournament.

No one, not China/CCP, not the WHO, not the American government, not any official source, is saying that anyone other than patient zero and one single person who caught the virus from a human corpse, has contracted COVID-19 from any source other than a living human. Even the wetmarket narrative says an initial person was infected at the market, and everyone after that that was infected from human to human transfer, including the single case of someone catching it from a human corpse.

Hypothetically, if the thing you describe was the big problem we should be worried about, that is, animals are a market catching a disease from humans and replicating it, then infecting humans with the same disease, the only relevant problem would be live animals of a single species coming into contact with humans, and then being infected while still alive, and then either while still alive or sufficiently fresh to still be contagious, coming into contact with more humans. In that scenario, different species coming into contact with each other would be irrelevant. Indeed, even in the wetmarket scenario, even according to the most plausible version of the narrative, different species of animals coming into contact with each other at the market is impossible to have been a factor.

It's probably worth saying, because you've already made the mistake, that you should read the context of what I'm saying and not misapply it to other contexts.

you said what you said, you were wrong on that point, You have trouble admitting when you get some details wrong, I am bored of the back and forth, so bye.

 

[basilio]

No, just wanting the thread to get back onto economic aspects

I think there are going to be many amazing implications of this virus. To quote Comrade V I Ulyanov
"There are decades where nothing happens, and there are weeks where decades happen.”

I would prefer to focus on issues and not go up cul-de-sacs (like wet markets). And if we can't achieve reform now, what hope is there?

Thanks. That is what this thread is about.
This analysis from the ABC explores the impact of the COVID 19 crisis on globalization and our national capacity to meet our needs. Much to consider. Check it out

Analysis
When insular replaces open: How could COVID-19 affect the global economy?

Scott Morrison loves to talk about "the other side" and has built an imagery centred around it. There's the road in, the bridge across and the road out.

While the COVID-19 pandemic has forced the Federal Government to abandon many of its long-held beliefs about economic management, particularly in regard to welfare and the role of government in the economy, the Prime Minister has been adamant that this is temporary; a short and sharp response to a crisis.

But, just as the pandemic suddenly derailed the Coalition's immediate plan for a return to budget surplus and continued tax cuts, it may well prove to be the deciding factor in a much bigger shift that ultimately could reshape the global economy.

The "road out" may head in an entirely different direction to the one we travelled towards the chasm and the bridge may need to be much longer than many now imagine.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-20/how-could-coronavirus-affect-the-global-economy/12163198

 

[qldfrog]

No, just wanting the thread to get back onto economic aspects

I think there are going to be many amazing implications of this virus. To quote Comrade V I Ulyanov
"There are decades where nothing happens, and there are weeks where decades happen.”

I would prefer to focus on issues and not go up cul-de-sacs (like wet markets). And if we can't achieve reform now, what hope is there?

Agree, was just thinking about new opportunities etc products acts i could develop.but to be honest i do not see how i could do this here.even now..
I have ideas but..
We need strong changes: taxes ,attitudes,regulations, red tapes..honestly i am doubtful
Let's hope...

 

[basilio]

Came across this interview with Danielle DiMartino Booth (who ? ).
Big picture view of the economic future post COVID 19'

 

[basilio]

Another view to consider

 

[Sdajii]

you said what you said, you were wrong on that point, You have trouble admitting when you get some details wrong, I am bored of the back and forth, so bye.

Except that I wasn't. You're literally guilty of what you accuse me of. Glad for you to say 'bye'.

 

[jbocker]

Came across this interview with Danielle DiMartino Booth (who ? ).
Big picture view of the economic future post COVID 19'

1st half well worth listening to.

 

[wayneL]

Agree, was just thinking about new opportunities etc products acts i could develop.but to be honest i do not see how i could do this here.even now..
I have ideas but..
We need strong changes: taxes ,attitudes,regulations, red tapes..honestly i am doubtful
Let's hope...

It's actually a really big opportunity for us to reshape our economy and society for better... Well hopefully, and there may be some disagreement about what "better" actually is.

It would involve a great deal of financial pain for some, always winners and losses in any change.

Unfortunately I don't see any sign of our government being on board with anything except perpetuation of the current corporatocratic(sic) part dystopia.... so share your pessimism there.

It would have to be a grass roots movement of we proles.... but I wonder if there is enough of a critical mass of people awake enough?

 

[Value Collector]

Except that I wasn't. You're literally guilty of what you accuse me of. Glad for you to say 'bye'.

You were suggesting that because no live animals are sold at the market the market they couldn't have any added risk of the virus other than what you would get at a fruit and veg market.

This is clearly untrue.

But anyway, twist things however you like and retreat to a different point other than the one I was addressing, I don't care I am out.

 

[Country Lad]

You were suggesting that because no live animals are sold at the market the market they couldn't have any added risk of the virus other than what you would get at a fruit and veg market.

This is clearly untrue.

But anyway, twist things however you like and retreat to a different point other than the one I was addressing, I don't care I am out.

I would really prefer that you continue the argument as PMs. It has nothing to do with the Economic implication of COVID 19 which is what this thread is about

 

[jbocker]

It would involve a great deal of financial pain for some...

It think there will a LOT more than some, and if we not see that much here, we will see it in abundance in other nations. It will be about how much debt you carry vs how flaky your income is understood.

It would have to be a grass roots movement of we proles.... but I wonder if there is enough of a critical mass of people awake enough?

The middle class with the debt is the critical mass.

 

[wayneL]

It think there will a LOT more than some, and if we not see that much here, we will see it in abundance in other nations. It will be about how much debt you carry vs how flaky your income is understood.

The middle class with the debt is the critical mass.

and my fears that the middle class are largely absolutely asleep

 

[hja]

Sure as long as , and i do not think you want to understand this , that you agree it would have been the very same in a busy clothing market
IF this had been the case, would you argue we should close all clothing shops because this is where the disease got shared?
Selling wild animal where you can to see them slaughtered on the spot might be shocking, we even have the vegan snowflakes tipping in etc fair as long it is not mixed with the issue on hand which is the coronavirus. Another problem, another combat if you want, but not related
What next? Greta arguing that it is caused by global warming as you know, germs like warm conditions?

you need to realise all this is playing hand in hand with the CPP; some do not even hide their masters here but I doubt you would consider yourself a Xi shrill @hja?
so try to step back and reread what has been explained probably badly by both @Sdajii , myself and others
If need be, read on viruses, inter species bridges and then get some more details on the labs in Wuhan playing with coronavirus or live bats in their research labs and make your own opinion.

I don't think you can compare a local or insular population with one that has remote or exotic outsiders introduced into it. A clothing market isn't exactly a wet market.
I'm no fan of Greta but if you'd heard some of the narrative or seen some of the footage of these wet markets or been there!, your tune might change somewhat.

A shrilling shill for the CCP? With no connection or nothing in common with their culture or language: Haha very funny! well I do expect they will be our masters, maybe even sooner rather than later, seriously... Hard not to see otherwise.

I'm still open, frangin, but I'm not dismissing the animal origin idea or it playing some part in it somehow, either.

 

[jbocker]

and my fears that the middle class are largely absolutely asleep

Agree but I am hoping they are focussing on beating the bug for the moment. While doing that contemplating their real financial situation and from there change their way wrt to working to reduce debt and getting more than a few weeks cover in their budget (start a budget). This will happen when we tire of playing about getting dressed up to put the bins out. On debt I think there has been a change to lessen debt, with the house price falls over the last couple of years, the virus effects, is a massive new injection of pain for those who are yet to have a lesson.
With that pain and knowledge we then make the demands on govt to make our employment living and lifestyle a lot more self sustaining. Whatever that takes.

I really hope that people wont run off in riots as in some countries, I trust Aussies continue to work together. It is far more smarter thing to do.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

It will be about how much debt you carry vs how flaky your income is.
The middle class with the debt is the critical mass.

Why single out one cohort? Utilising debt to (hopefully) enhance one's financial position has been the only game in town, across all socio-economic groups. Especially when the Central Bank Put (Bernanke, Powell, Draghi, Xi, RBA & etc, around the world) is evidence enough that risk has been squashed <technically; mispriced>. Then something comes along, very much left field, and what were thought to be sure things are shown to be dangerously, damagingly risky.

That's not to deny there is a random element of bad luck at play. It is, as you imply, the sheer scale of the dislocation and its speed that is creating chaos.

 

[basilio]

I highlighted the "economic opportunities" offered by Livingstone International during the COVID 19 crisis.
Essentially they had pricked their ears and were going full charge on pricing for PPE items.

Finally been picked up by the media..

Medical supply company charging $786 for a box of 20 face masks accused of exploiting coronavirus crisis
7.30
By Grace Tobin

Pharmacist Linda Nguyen is a loyal customer of Livingstone International, which manufactures and supplies a large range of medical equipment to hospitals, aged care centres, pathology labs and government departments across Australia.

She says the company's prices for face masks have soared since the COVID-19 pandemic unleashed panic buying in Australia.

"When we had some quotes from the company back in January a box of the N95 masks would cost about $40," Ms Nguyen told 7.30.

"Now they would cost about $700-$800 depending on the brand, and that would be about 20 masks per box."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04...harging-$786-for-single-box-of-masks/12166438

 

[PZ99]

It's actually a really big opportunity for us to reshape our economy and society for better... Well hopefully, and there may be some disagreement about what "better" actually is.

Well we won't partake in invading other countries for oil. So that's better... and cheaper

 

[Sdajii]

You were suggesting that because no live animals are sold at the market the market they couldn't have any added risk of the virus other than what you would get at a fruit and veg market.

This is clearly untrue.

But anyway, twist things however you like and retreat to a different point other than the one I was addressing, I don't care I am out.

That's not what I said. I said if you or I were infected and were the source of the infection, going to a market with dead animals being sold would be no more dangerous than going to a vegetable market or arm wrestling tournament etc.

If you are talking about a scenario where no humans are yet infected, and you're looking for the source of a new virus infecting a patient zero, then extremely low as the risk is, obviously it is higher at a dead animal market than a vegetable market.

You're the only one twisting things, pretending that I was saying the first thing in the second context, which I never did.

 

[Humid]

That's not what I said. I said if you or I were infected and were the source of the infection, going to a market with dead animals being sold would be no more dangerous than going to a vegetable market or arm wrestling tournament etc.

If you are talking about a scenario where no humans are yet infected, and you're looking for the source of a new virus infecting a patient zero, then extremely low as the risk is, obviously it is higher at a dead animal market than a vegetable market.

You're the only one twisting things, pretending that I was saying the first thing in the second context, which I never did.

well you have the animal market and the vegetable market what about the stock market?