Economic implications of a SARS/Coronavirus outbreak

[boofhead]

Once we get rid of this virus (if we do) I wonder what the chances are of something similar coming along and we'll have to do it all again.

This means a forensic effort to find the source and a public calling out of of responsibilties to eliminate conditions for such viruses arising, even if it causes offense to some.

It will happen again. Some places have changed how they handle outbreaks based on past experiences like Singapore and South Korea as they were afflicted by SARS (which is from the same family of viruses as corvid-19) - we don't have universal ways of vaccinating against infectious viruses of the future. Also harder as they are living entities evolving.

 

[againsthegrain]

China sea, Debt trap of foreign poor countries, silencing of citizens, murder of citizens, military bullying of other countries. At what point do you realize Trump isn't actually the threat in the room.

I wonder if the same was said of Germany or Russia during the ascendancy of Hitler or Stalin. "Shhh, don't point out the obvious..... Because that's racism".

Glad somebody said it

 

[jbocker]

(k) moving supply/manufacture back onshore, which will impact margins;

Listening on radio yesterday about a seafood company in SW of WA is spending $1M to opening and running a cannery in (Australia) the SW of WA. Up till now the seafood is caught here and sent to Thailand where it is canned and then (I think) bought back here for sale. I assume exported again. It will cost more to can here but I think it is a trial.

..but its THAT folks is what I want hear. WE need to get some of these things back.

 

[Sdajii]

It's possible that it has escaped. But for now, until further proof it's a case of zoonotic transmission. Either way it was a huge and dangerous failure.

You can't say you know something until there's further proof. At most it remains an unknown. There is overwhelming evidence for it being artificial, enough to be certain, and enough circumstantial evidence to very strongly suggest it was deliberate (but circumstantial only, so not conclusive at this stage).

 

[Sdajii]

Do you have sources for your claims?
Here are some facts for you to consider.

Patient zero is confirmed to have had it before it was ever at the wet market. There's a tonne of information on it.

 

[rederob]

Patient zero is confirmed to have had it before it was ever at the wet market. There's a tonne of information on it.

In other words you have no evidence.

 

[basilio]

China sea, Debt trap of foreign poor countries, silencing of citizens, murder of citizens, military bullying of other countries. At what point do you realize Trump isn't actually the threat in the room.

Would you like me to detail where Trump in particular and US historically has done exactly those actions ?

I repeat.
IMV Donald Trumps current leadership of US response to the COVID 19 crisis will not be successful. His undermining of US preparedness for the situation was criminally negligent. His usual lying xhit on the matter (blaming Obama for the cuts Trump made) stands as testimony to his unfitness for office.

On this particular thread we are discussing the economic implications of this crisis. Trumps leadership of the US is critical to holding much of the worlds economic framework intact. Good luck for that. !!

 

[basilio]

China is certainly taking a leading role in helping countries tackle the COVID 19 virus around he world .
How and why ? What could happen when this is all over ? The headline offers one rationale but it's bigger than that.

China's coronavirus aid seeking to shift narrative away from Beijing's cover-up, experts say
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03...eks-to-shift-narrative-from-cover-up/12072296

 

[moXJO]

You can't say you know something until there's further proof. At most it remains an unknown. There is overwhelming evidence for it being artificial, enough to be certain, and enough circumstantial evidence to very strongly suggest it was deliberate (but circumstantial only, so not conclusive at this stage).

I can't argue the point if I can't back it up with something tangible. It's possible but I can't find enough data to support it just yet.

 

[moXJO]

Would you like me to detail where Trump in particular and US historically has done exactly those actions ?

I repeat.
IMV Donald Trumps current leadership of US response to the COVID 19 crisis will not be successful. His undermining of US preparedness for the situation was criminally negligent. His usual lying xhit on the matter (blaming Obama for the cuts Trump made) stands as testimony to his unfitness for office.

On this particular thread we are discussing the economic implications of this crisis. Trumps leadership of the US is critical to holding much of the worlds economic framework intact. Good luck for that. !!

Just quietly, Trump polls look like he is gone. And thank God. I don't think I could listen to you lot drone on about it for another term.

 

[Sdajii]

I can't argue the point if I can't back it up with something tangible. It's possible but I can't find enough data to support it just yet.

So your assertion is either premature or incorrect. I can give a heap of reasoning for why it's an artificially modified virus, and I can't find anything other than 'surely China would never make a bioweapon or use transgenic viruses in research' (which you'd have to be beyond stupid to think) or 'surely human error is not a possibility' (does this need comment?) to refute it. Naturally to make an assertion either way you need evidence, but I literally see a heap of evidence for one side, now enough to be all but conclusive unless everything we're being told is a complete lie, and nothing at all other than 'yeah, we reckon it was from someone eating a bat... no evidence despite literally the most exhaustive search in the history of medical science at the time when the technology and ability to do so it greater than ever and it's literally the only time we've ever been unable to do it.

All the while we have the in-your-face-obvious motive not to tell the public it's artificial.

How close to dots need to be for people to be able to join them?

 

[satanoperca]

China is certainly taking a leading role in helping countries tackle the COVID 19 virus around he world .
How and why ? What could happen when this is all over ? The headline offers one rationale but it's bigger than that.

China's coronavirus aid seeking to shift narrative away from Beijing's cover-up, experts say
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03...eks-to-shift-narrative-from-cover-up/12072296

Really, really, really.
"China is sending medical supplies and protective equipment such as face masks to dozens of countries and has given US$20 million ($35 million) to the World Health Organisation's COVID-19 appeal."

WOW, $20M, they are such good citizens aren't they. This is text book stuff.

So I smash you in the face, causing a blood nose and then give you a tissue to wipe away the blood. Gee I am a good guy.

Basilio, have you ever been to China, worked with the Chinese, understand their culture, their history and more importantly, their govnuts?

 

[Smurf1976]

I don't have a great love of China. They have certainly done many things I think are very wrong. You brought up a few of them. I just don't see good value in geeing up anti Chinese sentiment over this issue.

Strongly agreed.

That said, it is also very clear that Australia cannot sensibly remain so closely tied to either China, the US or any other single country. This crisis has made that reality very clear.

My expectation is that Australia's economy will ultimately emerge stronger because of this. We'll be forced to diversify both geographically and in terms of activity and neither is a bad thing. Our business model of simply selling what we've got to whoever walks in the door, which isn't far removed from prostitution as a concept, has reached its end point.

Short term the downside is mass unemployment, investors losing money and massive disruption.

Long term here's the springboard to put Australians back to work in actual higher value industries and to fix the problems we've been sweeping under the rug in the great race to the bottom. Problems like hospital funding, the natural environment including issues of pollution and emissions, house prices and so on are all ultimately products of the economic race to the bottom we've been engaged in.

If I was to try and fit our predicament to any previous historic example then once the virus is sorted I'd pick 1945. A war won and a focus on rebuilding our industries as the obvious path forward both practically and economically.

 

[Smurf1976]

but its THAT folks is what I want hear. WE need to get some of these things back.

There's a company proposing to build a new oil refinery in Darwin as another example. It looks to be a serious proposal not just a thought bubble.

We'll see more such things I think yes.

 

[Sdajii]

In other words you have no evidence.

There are countless sites and media outlets covering it, which makes it weird (telling?) that so many media outlets are still saying the old story which is completely debunked. The first known patient had the diseases on November 17. He didn't get it from the market. Many sources still spout the old information which was being said before China had acknowledged the existence of earlier cases and was trying to cover it up (with many early whistleblowers who were young and healthy 'dying from the coronavirus' or just... disappearing). The early story about the wetmarket origin had the beginning of the outbreak as being after the Chinese denial. The WHO wasn't told of the virus until much later but we now know (and no one disputes) that cases go back to at least as early as November 17.

This was the first one which came up on a web search, it's generally regarded as credible (I personally disagree entirely, it pushes pro China narratives which are clearly false, but even they acknowledge the first known case as November 17, which is before anyone says the disease was at the wet market.

https://www.livescience.com/first-case-coronavirus-found.html

Feel free to read as many sites as you like, literally no one with a shred of credibility disputes cases existing back to November 17 and no one says the disease was in the market that early.

 

[satanoperca]

In other words you have no evidence.

Where is yours Rederob? Found it on some disused TP?

 

[rederob]

Feel free to read as many sites as you like, literally no one with a shred of credibility disputes cases existing back to November 17 and no one says the disease was in the market that early.

While this is true all you have done is layer your spin over the fact that patient tracking showed a common source for almost half those infected in early days, and that point has never been debunked as you seem think.
Many Australians who have now tested positive have not been able to understand how or where they could have been infected, and "patient zero" in Wuhan for that matter may have been asymptomatic -we don't know and should be clear on that.

 

[rederob]

Where is yours Rederob? Found it on some disused TP?

It was linked earlier - did you miss it.

 

[satanoperca]

It was linked earlier - did you miss it.

That is evidence? Wow, I hope you don't trade stocks

 

[againsthegrain]

Really, really, really.
"China is sending medical supplies and protective equipment such as face masks to dozens of countries and has given US$20 million ($35 million) to the World Health Organisation's COVID-19 appeal."

WOW, $20M, they are such good citizens aren't they. This is text book stuff.

So I smash you in the face, causing a blood nose and then give you a tissue to wipe away the blood. Gee I am a good guy.

Basilio, have you ever been to China, worked with the Chinese, understand their culture, their history and more importantly, their govnuts?

Nothing is free, somewhere down the road china will be happy to use this as "you owe us now" this is exactly their style of tactics.... giving loans poor countries can't repay etc