Dump it Here

[Skate]

Skate.

 

[Skate]

Skate, as well as posting your weekly update can you post the p&l by day for this week

Hi @kid hustlr

Why?
I'm at a loss why you would want to know the daily P&L of a weekly system?

It's an unusual request to report daily variations of a weekly system but as you have asked I see no reason not to show you how the week panned out for the CAM Strategy day-by-day for the entire week.

The week started off with a dip & couldn't recover losing (-$8,885) a down week, hopefully there are better weeks to come.


Daily Summary
I've included a graph to show the decline in profits on a daily basis. Monday wasn't kind to the CAM Strategy starting the week off by losing (-$14,948) & another loss of (-$7,589) on Tuesday.

Over the next 3 days the CAM Strategy couldn't recover the loss of the first two days closing with a weekly loss of (-$8,885)

How the week panned out
1. Monday started out poorly down (-$14,948) at the end of trade... #Mondays loss was (-$14,948)
2. Tuesday the CAM Strategy went from a loss of (-$14,948) to losing another (-$7,589) now we are down (-$22,537)... #Tuesdays Loss = (-$7,589)
3. Wednesday we had a small win of +$2,236, taking the loss from (-$22,537) to a loss of (-$20,301)... *Wednesday's gain +$2,236
4. On Thursday the CAM strategy had a small win of +$4,389 taking the weekly loss to (-$15,912)... *Thursday's gain +$4,389
5. Today the CAM strategy had another win of +$7,027 unfortunately not enough to make up the loss of Monday & Tuesday... *Friday's gain = $7,027

Monday = (-$14,948)
Tuesday = (-$7,589)
Wednesday = +$2,236
Thursday = +$4,389
Friday = +$7,027

A total of (-$8,885) loss for the CAM Strategy this week.

The maths
In two days the CAM Strategy lost -$22,537 & the next 3 days it made +$13,652 which was just not enough to make up for the loses of the first two days.

Open positions
Open Profit & Loses go up & down minute by minute, week by week, month by month & open P&L belong to the markets. It's only when the positions are closed the P&L belongs to you & until then, it's not even worth worrying about.

Remember
Open profits & loses = Belong to the Market
Closed Profits & loses = Belong to you

Skate.

 

[willoneau]

It would be interesting to know why he asked too?

 

[kid hustlr]

I think its important to see real life what can happen. Someone following your thread might not realise there can be a huge difference between end of week changes in equity and daily changes.

I agree in theory it doesn't matter but emotions can be hard to manage

 

[JimmyJames80]

I think its important to see real life what can happen. Someone following your thread might not realise there can be a huge difference between end of week changes in equity and daily changes. I agree in theory it doesn't matter but emotions can be hard to manage

kid, skates thread is littered with posts about emotions & I've read everyone.

Emotions colour your attitude
Emotions colour your attitude toward the market and often push you to act when feelings of fear or greed overcome logic. Self-awareness is a valuable trait to cultivate in many areas of life. Investing is no different. The role of emotions becomes even more important when the market has been trending down.
Skate.

Also I grabbed some of these posts from skate that I found helpful in overcomming my emotions as I find losing money very stressful as well as emotional, but I'm getting better & it's not easy.

Skate said:
1. Emotions
Emotions drive our reactions on what we perceive

2. Underestimate
Market participants tend to underestimate the importance of their emotions when making market decisions. If you have a totally mechanical or mathematical approach to the market, you don’t have to worry too much about pesky emotions. But they are still there in some degree.

3. How We All Think
When under the influence of emotions, we may surrender our emotional intelligence and this is why trading is such a difficult endeavour.

4. Being hijacked
We all feel that sinking feeling in our guts after we enter a trade and that trade go slightly against us our emotions kick in and if the fear is strong enough, we might cut the trade short to escape the unpleasantness, hijacked by our emotions encouraging us to do the wrong thing at the wrong time.

5. All Your Emotions Belong to You
Trading psychology is something most people don’t think about when dealing with their investments. However when trading for yourself, your emotions will have an unavoidable impact on your outcome.

Kid, read some of skates other comments about your emotions & trading as I think its important, well I think skate thinks so.

 

[kid hustlr]

Hi JJ,

I get all that however I thought it was a pretty good time to highlight a point.

How would most feel on Tuesday night trading this system when the account is -5% in 2 days and there's no stops to be applied until the following Monday. I'm not saying this is a good thing or bad thing I just felt it was a perfect example of seeing a weekly system under pressure in action in real time.

 

[JimmyJames80]

Hi JJ,
I get all that however I thought it was a pretty good time to highlight a point. How would most feel on Tuesday night trading this system when the account is -5% in 2 days and there's no stops to be applied until the following Monday. I'm not saying this is a good thing or bad thing I just felt it was a perfect example of seeing a weekly system under pressure in action in real time.

kid, it's a good point - "how most would feel" if it was me i would have been devistated. $22,000 in two days I think I would have sold but after reading skates posts maybe not because he has also spoken a lot about having confidence in your system. He has reinforced that coinfidence comes from extensive testing of your system, its all beyond me at this stage but reading this thread & peter2 thread its starting to make a bit more sense & i though trading wasn't going to be difficults, wasn't i wrong.

It's only when the positions are closed the P&L belongs to you & until then, it's not even worth worrying about.

I like this quote about when your money is in the markets "don't worry" because your trading amount fluctuates all the time & its only when the position is closed that matters. I think I worry too much I need to be more like skate

 

[willoneau]

If you don't look at your weekly system until after close Friday or over w/end then less stress if you have trouble controlling emotion.

 

[Skate]

Stimulate discussion
I've made a lot of posts to stimulate members to open up & express their alternative trading ideas as trading is confusing for the best of us.

Right or wrong it doesn't matter
The 'Dump it here' thread is not about right or wrong as everyone has the right to express an alternative point of view & to explain their methodology when it comes to their trading style.

Hijack away

Okay, let me post a few more

Acquired Taste
His posting style is an acquired taste. Perhaps someone appreciates his abundant use of headings.
OK. I'm just having fun here, and it's all tongue-in-cheek. Skate can post in whatever style he likes. But it certainly is unique.

I'm glad you've focused on that, because things are often said as "standard wisdom", but they need to be tested to see if they're actually true. The statement "if you hold more than 30 stocks..." oops, I forgot where I was. Reconfiguring my thoughts into the 'Dump it Here' formatting standard

Just to be fair
I'm Hijacking a few other posts that have caught my eye.

“portfolio-heat-will-it-save-your-bacon” thread

I've found focusing on open profit adjusted for "open risk" helps me deal with the inevitable rapid market falls into drawdown. As a systematic trend trader, its no use getting excited over long periods of climbing profits if you blow your cool after a few down days. Its no fun seeing open profit evaporate quickly, but they're never really your profits until you book them and you usually shouldn't be doing that until price closes below trailing stops (thinking weekly trend following here).

@Newt, nailed it. Being a systematic trend trader myself I appreciate "open profits" & "open loses" can carry emotions but those emotions don't drive our decision making process as they are pre-locked into our strategy.

“when-to-buy-a-stock” thread

Perhaps I should have specified more clearly in the video - if I buy a stock, and the fundamentals clearly don't match the trajectory, and it goes down, I simply buy more. Typically I'll do first buy ~25 - 40% on first drop, and then buy more if it goes down another 25 - 30%, with one more buy if it goes down another 25 - 30% after that.

@SensibleInvesting thread is a worthy read even though our trading style is like 'Chalk-&-Cheese', I say each to their own. Different trading style make a market.

“stock-market-sectors-are-you-a-loser-or-one-of-the-cool-kids” thread

I am curious as to whether some of the system type traders pay attention to this area or if they have a system in place that incorporates the sector bias. I know there is a lot of system based traders on the ASF like peter2, captain black, tech/a, Skate, willoneau, Boggo, investtrader, but I've just mentioned a few who regularly post info/charts of their system based trades and see what they can contribute to the discussion.

As I was mentioned
I can only comment on my style of system trading, others may hold a different view. I trade the All Ordinaries only, the top 500 companies listed on the ASX & sector bias doesn't even rate.

ASX codes
I want to right upfront & say "I don't even know what companies I'm buying" let alone the sector they belong to, I'm just buying ASX codes. But what I do know about the ASX codes I buy is that they meet my buy conditions & a predetermined list of parameters.

Skates method is the hold the strongest cull the weakest making your money work ever day. The higher number of positions raises the probability to find the strongest (obvious but a revelation to me thanks Peter 2) Holding a large number of stocks with out churning to find the strongest will possibly get you similar results as the index.

Yes, that's how I trade
@IFocus post demonstrates an understanding of how I trade. I trade a variety strategies & they all do the same thing "finding repeatable patterns" jumping on the "shakers-&-movers" that have momentum & when they stop "moving & shaking" the system culls them.

Skate.

 

[willoneau]

I trade similar to Skate and chase the outliers but I don't know which they are so take every signal.
Outliers are the edge in trend trading.

 

[willoneau]

So from the portfolio heat thread I think controlling how quickly I buy positions will only have a negative impact on my system.

 

[Zaxon]

@Skate , in retrospect, that original post I made came across as slightly mean, so I apologize for that.

 

[willoneau]

I trade similar to Skate and chase the outliers but I don't know which they are so take every signal.
Outliers are the edge in trend trading.

Actually that isn't entirely true, I also eye ball the signals and look for expansion bars with high volume and place conditional orders above instead of open orders on Monday.
Tech/a made a valid point ages ago about systems and pick and choosing signals and I totally agree with him.

 

[qldfrog]

But the above can be incorporated in your system too?

 

[willoneau]

Definately qldfrog,
as tech/a stated as long as you pick signals it doesn't matter because you will still fall inside the range of your moniti carlo test of worst and best return. Just hopefully more towards the best side.

 

[aus_trader]

As I was mentioned
I can only comment on my style of system trading, others may hold a different view. I trade the All Ordinaries only, the top 500 companies listed on the ASX & sector bias doesn't even rate.

Thanks for clarifying your input with respect to stock selection. How Sectors affect stocks is something we are still learning about and although we believe there is a co-relation, it is not yet proven with any testing or stats.

 

[Smurf1976]

Holding a large number of stocks with out churning to find the strongest will possibly get you similar results as the index.

One advantage of holding a large number of stocks is that it should assist in controlling the "human" factors.

Taking it to the extreme, if someone holds 50 stocks of equal value then even a total loss on any one of them is still only 2% of the portfolio. That ought to reduce the tendency to panic because a particular stock is down 10 or 20%.

The downside of that approach of course is that even a 100% gain in any individual stock is only a 2% gain to the portfolio.

50 is going too far in my view but 30 seems workable.

 

[willoneau]

Hi Smurf1976, I also think universe size will play a part when looking at larger portfolio size.

 

[Skate]

Skate.

 

[willoneau]

Hi SKate , is your total position size 30?
never mind just noticed it was 25 total not open at moment.