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Skate.
Dump it Here
- Thread starter Skate
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Skate.
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Ignore the experts and be passive, not active
Just finished watching an interview between Jordan Belfort, a former stockbroker and convicted fraudster, and Tucker Carlson. The clip focuses on Belfort's thoughts on the stock market and why he believes it's "rigged" against the average investor. Belfort argues that the market is controlled by a small group of powerful people who manipulate prices and profit at the expense of others.
Throughout the interview, Belfort is careful to note that he is not defending his own actions, but rather trying to expose what he sees as a corrupt system and gives some specific examples to support his claim. However, the interview does raise important questions about the fairness and transparency of the financial system, and whether it is truly designed to benefit everyone equally.
# Tucker sums up the interview with "Ignore the experts and be passive, not active" - I must say it was an enjoyable way to spend 51 minutes and it's certainly worth a watch.
TIMESTAMPS
(00:00) The Wolf of Investing
(02:00) Jim Cramer’s bad advice
(24:20) Nancy Pelosi’s stock picks
(33:38) Addiction and redemption (This was interesting)
(47:41) Growing your money
Skate.
Just finished watching an interview between Jordan Belfort, a former stockbroker and convicted fraudster, and Tucker Carlson. The clip focuses on Belfort's thoughts on the stock market and why he believes it's "rigged" against the average investor. Belfort argues that the market is controlled by a small group of powerful people who manipulate prices and profit at the expense of others.
Throughout the interview, Belfort is careful to note that he is not defending his own actions, but rather trying to expose what he sees as a corrupt system and gives some specific examples to support his claim. However, the interview does raise important questions about the fairness and transparency of the financial system, and whether it is truly designed to benefit everyone equally.
# Tucker sums up the interview with "Ignore the experts and be passive, not active" - I must say it was an enjoyable way to spend 51 minutes and it's certainly worth a watch.
TIMESTAMPS
(00:00) The Wolf of Investing
(02:00) Jim Cramer’s bad advice
(24:20) Nancy Pelosi’s stock picks
(33:38) Addiction and redemption (This was interesting)
(47:41) Growing your money
Skate.
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but in saying that knowing the market is very unequal ( and in some cases blatantly rigged ) is the edge a small investor/trader can use
for instance when some big fund managers buy into a stock the price almost immediately comes under pressure , persistent bad luck ? NO they start lending the shares out to short-term traders , now once you notice this an investor , can decide what discount to the current share price is attractive ,
for instance when some big fund managers buy into a stock the price almost immediately comes under pressure , persistent bad luck ? NO they start lending the shares out to short-term traders , now once you notice this an investor , can decide what discount to the current share price is attractive ,
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A long, long time ago
In the aftermath of the 1929-1932 market collapse, Benjamin Graham and David Dodd highlighted the contrasting philosophies of active trading and passive investing. They warned against the potential pitfalls of passive investing, a view shared by @qldfrog in a recent post.
Fast forward to the present day, and as a seasoned trader, I've come to embrace the concept of "passive" investing with the conviction that temporary losses will ultimately be recouped over time while accumulating dividends and franking credits along the way.
I don't believe that passive investing is inherently flawed, provided that investors understand the fundamental principles underlying this strategy and effectively apply them. By embracing passive investing, investors can endure market volatility, capitalise on the power of compounding returns, and avoid the costly pursuit of timing the market.
In summary, a balanced approach that combines the strengths of passive investing with a focus on valuations can pave the way for sustainable, long-term wealth accumulation. Well, that's what I think and currently believe.
Skate.
In the aftermath of the 1929-1932 market collapse, Benjamin Graham and David Dodd highlighted the contrasting philosophies of active trading and passive investing. They warned against the potential pitfalls of passive investing, a view shared by @qldfrog in a recent post.
Fast forward to the present day, and as a seasoned trader, I've come to embrace the concept of "passive" investing with the conviction that temporary losses will ultimately be recouped over time while accumulating dividends and franking credits along the way.
I don't believe that passive investing is inherently flawed, provided that investors understand the fundamental principles underlying this strategy and effectively apply them. By embracing passive investing, investors can endure market volatility, capitalise on the power of compounding returns, and avoid the costly pursuit of timing the market.
In summary, a balanced approach that combines the strengths of passive investing with a focus on valuations can pave the way for sustainable, long-term wealth accumulation. Well, that's what I think and currently believe.
Skate.
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i believe 'passive investing ' is endemically `flawed with the current trend for management to be both regularly refreshed ( and meet 'diversification standards ' ) your 'good solid company' can be led off a cliff by high profile ( share spiking ) appointments .
you need to watch over your investments constantly
and the most important time in the market is when looking for a graceful exit ( that is while still in profit )
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1. Graham contrasted 'valuation' as against 'passive'. Passive was viewed as a negative methodology.
2. Which is exactly what Graham was warning against.
3. Why do you not believe passive is flawed? What are the principles? How do you effectively apply them?
4. They are mutually (at by least Graham's definition) exclusive.
For the stocks that you hold, you provided screenshots of third party 'valuations'. One at least was 'overvalued', which in Graham's methodology would have precluded a purchase at that price. Graham was an active seller of stocks that he held. Graham also traded a lot of 'special situations' and arbitrage. He was probably one of the first specialist arbitrage traders in his day.
The point being: Graham was very far from passive.
Fisher was more about 'growth stocks' and longer term holds. However he would also sell if the fundamentals deteriorated.
Buffett is more of a hybrid of the two. Buffett learned his 'valuations' at Graham's knee.
Your portfolio consists of: (a) banks and (b) resource companies. Both are amongst the hardest to value. Banks because they hold everything of interest (importance) off balance sheet so that you can't see it and Resource companies, because their assets are of a diminishing value as they are used up. Placing a value on this is really hard.
The 'analysis' provided to date is third party analysis from a website. As it requires some form of payment to access (other than a teaser) it is difficult to really assess the quality of their work (product). Have you undertaken any independent analysis yourself or are you relying solely on their work?
jog on
duc
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Sustainable income from dividends and franking credits - fluctuating share prices matter less
@ducati916, thank you for sharing your insights and perspectives on passive investing, on Graham, Fisher, and Buffett's investment strategies.
Firstly, I'd like to clarify that my portfolio consists of a mix of banking and resource stocks, which I believe offer a reasonable margin of safety and potential for long-term growth. However, I do not claim to be a perfect stock picker, and I acknowledge that no one can accurately predict the future with certainty.
Regarding the third-party valuations I provided, I understand your concern about relying solely on external analysis. While I do find their work helpful in informing my investment decisions, I also conduct my "own research" and analysis to ensure that my investments align with my goal of generating a sustainable income.
Lastly, I appreciate your point that Benjamin Graham was an active trader and sold stocks when their fundamentals deteriorated. I aim to adopt a similar approach "if required", by continuously monitoring my investments and making adjustments as needed. At this stage, I've left room to increase the holding in WDS, whereas MFG has to put runs on the board before more latitude is given to this security.
In conclusion, when seeking a sustainable steady income from dividends and franking credits, fluctuating share prices become less relevant. As an exercise, I should evaluate what my investment portfolio would have generated in income for the previous year.
Skate.
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Ahoy there Old Friend "Skates on Thick Ice"
Have you ever thought of designing an "All Weather Sailing Ship"
Herte is My Design! incorporating all Classifications of Sail
All you need to do is Hoist and Lower each sail as each Sail's Trend Dictates
Salute and Gods' Speed
Have you ever thought of designing an "All Weather Sailing Ship"
Herte is My Design! incorporating all Classifications of Sail
All you need to do is Hoist and Lower each sail as each Sail's Trend Dictates
Salute and Gods' Speed
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A Sustainable Income Stream through Dividend Investing
Investing in the stock market can provide a sustainable income stream through dividends and franking credits. In the chart below I explore the potential returns from a hypothetical investment in six well-known Australian companies: ANZ, BHP, CBA, FMG, MFG and WDS. The dividends and franking credits paid out by these companies between 2022 and 2023, demonstrate how a long-term investment strategy can provide a reliable income stream.
Methods
I collected the dividend and franking credit data for the six companies mentioned above from publicly available sources (CommSec). The data covers four dividend payments for each company between 2022 and 2023. I calculated the total dividend and franking credit payments for each company and then combined them to obtain a total payment figure.
Results
The results are presented in the table below, showing the total dividend and franking credit payments for each company and the total for all six companies.
# Dividends and Franking Credits for 2023 were = $177,114.27 (Tax Free in my case)
# Dividends and Franking Credits for 2022 were = $227,891.44 (Tax Free in my case)
On face value
The amounts listed above will vary - but overall, the tax-free returns aren't too shabby at all. A hypothetical investment in these six companies could have provided a significant income stream through dividends and franking credits. The total dividend and franking credit payments for 2023 amounted to $177,114.27, while the total for 2022 was $227,891.44. These figures illustrate the potential for a sustainable income stream over two years.
| ANZ | Shares | Dividend | Payment | Franking | TOTAL |
22/12/2023 | 15,572 | $0.94 | $14,637.68 | $2,854.35 | $17,492.03 |
3/07/2023 | 15,572 | $0.81 | $12,613.32 | $3,784.00 | $16,397.32 |
15/12/2022 | 15,572 | $0.74 | $11,523.28 | $3,456.98 | $14,980.26 |
1/07/2022 | 15,572 | $0.72 | $11,211.84 | $3,363.55 | $14,575.39 |
| BHP | Shares | Dividend | Payment | Franking | TOTAL |
28/09/2023 | 17,515 | $1.25 | $21,911.27 | $4,272.70 | $26,183.96 |
30/03/2023 | 17,515 | $1.36 | $23,890.46 | $4,658.64 | $28,549.10 |
22/09/2022 | 17,515 | $2.55 | $44,698.28 | $8,716.16 | $53,414.44 |
28/03/2022 | 17,515 | $2.08 | $36,448.72 | $7,107.50 | $43,556.21 |
| CBA | Shares | Dividend | Payment | Franking | TOTAL |
28/09/2023 | 3,698 | $2.40 | $8,875.20 | $1,730.66 | $10,605.86 |
30/03/2023 | 3,698 | $2.10 | $7,765.80 | $1,514.33 | $9,280.13 |
29/09/2022 | 3,698 | $2.10 | $7,765.80 | $1,514.33 | $9,280.13 |
30/03/2022 | 3,698 | $1.75 | $6,471.50 | $1,261.94 | $7,733.44 |
| FMG | Shares | Dividend | Payment | Franking | TOTAL |
28/09/2023 | 15,464 | $1.00 | $15,464.00 | $3,015.48 | $18,479.48 |
29/03/2023 | 15,464 | $0.75 | $11,598.00 | $2,261.61 | $13,859.61 |
29/09/2022 | 15,464 | $1.21 | $18,711.44 | $3,648.73 | $22,360.17 |
30/03/2022 | 15,464 | $0.86 | $13,299.04 | $2,593.31 | $15,892.35 |
| MFG | Shares | Dividend | Payment | Franking | TOTAL |
7/09/2023 | 14,189 | $0.698 | $9,903.92 | $3,607.86 | $13,511.78 |
8/03/2023 | 14,189 | $0.47 | $6,654.64 | $2,424.19 | $9,078.83 |
6/09/2022 | 14,189 | $0.69 | $9,776.22 | $3,351.85 | $13,128.07 |
8/03/2022 | 14,189 | $1.10 | $15,622.09 | $5,021.39 | $20,643.48 |
| WDS | Shares | Dividend | Payment | Franking | TOTAL |
28/09/2023 | 3,369 | $1.24 | $4,187.67 | $816.60 | $5,004.26 |
5/04/2023 | 3,369 | $2.15 | $7,256.83 | $1,415.08 | $8,671.91 |
6/10/2022 | 3,369 | $1.60 | $5,390.40 | $1,051.13 | $6,441.53 |
23/03/2022 | 3,369 | $1.46 | $4,925.48 | $960.47 | $5,885.95 |
| Dividends + Franking | |||||
2023 | $177,114.27 | ||||
2022 | $227,891.44 |
Conclusion
This case study demonstrates the potential for a sustainable income stream through dividend and franking credits investing in well-established Australian companies. By investing in a diversified portfolio of stocks, investors can potentially earn a reliable income stream that can help them meet their financial goals. Also, there will be Capital Gains and losses along the way.
Skate.
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Talk is Cheap!
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@Captain_Chaza, the tax-free returns for the last two years aren't too shabby at all and they are documented facts.
# Dividends and Franking Credits for 2023 were = $177,114.27 (Tax Free in my case)
# Dividends and Franking Credits for 2022 were = $227,891.44 (Tax Free in my case)
Skate.
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@eskys, riddles can obscure your point, making it hard for others to understand. Instead, consider explaining your thoughts clearly and directly.
Skate.
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Professor i don't know why you even bother with the Mad Cap't.
I'm not privy to anything he posts but there is always the back door to get in by to have a glimpse, if I have nothing better to do.
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Asking good questions is key to getting helpful responses
Here are some tips to keep in mind when posting:
1. Add value to the discussion.
2. When expressing an alternative view, focus on the issues, not the person.
3. Avoid inciting emotional responses with one-liners. Instead, ask detailed questions to get detailed responses.
3. Don't be repetitive or ask questions that can be answered with a simple "yes" or "no."
4. Take the time to provide context and explain why you don't understand something.
Avoid following patterns of behaviour that don't contribute to the conversation, such as demanding evidence from others without offering any in return. Remember, the goal is to have a productive and respectful discussion. By asking thoughtful questions, you can help make that happen.
Skate.
Here are some tips to keep in mind when posting:
1. Add value to the discussion.
2. When expressing an alternative view, focus on the issues, not the person.
3. Avoid inciting emotional responses with one-liners. Instead, ask detailed questions to get detailed responses.
3. Don't be repetitive or ask questions that can be answered with a simple "yes" or "no."
4. Take the time to provide context and explain why you don't understand something.
Avoid following patterns of behaviour that don't contribute to the conversation, such as demanding evidence from others without offering any in return. Remember, the goal is to have a productive and respectful discussion. By asking thoughtful questions, you can help make that happen.
Skate.
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I thought that's as clear as a nose is on a face.
Debts will always be there until paid, whereas income can vary depending on many factors, be it a company or an individual's
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Professor so true, but unfortunately this not always the case.
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Well done ! My apologies
I did not know you started with only $4,000,000.00
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Do yourself a favour
Set a logbook of your shares at their Highest
That was YOUR MONEY THEN
What you have lost is LOST!
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