I am 4th quartile for both income and assets...but I work, so you appear to be in a very favourable position Belli.
I still invest funds but also distribute money to my children. They are going to get it eventually but I see no reason not to have some of it now.
I so want to disagree that investing in gambling. TA or trend trading definitely is. Maybe even my Bottom picking.
However, You lose on red.... Go bust trying to get to 21....... It's all gone. Generally trading you still have a percentage in the game.
Importantly Trading and gambling require a strategy and risk mitigation to be successful.
I also want more WDS but probably too stubborn. Under $30 or i'll stick with the amount I got. Still can't come to terms with almost selling out aiming for around $40 about a month ago.
I cannot see the reason to gather funds and assets unless there is a purpose to it. To do otherwise is shallow to me. I figure where there are available funds which are surplus to my needs, the rational decision is to help my family if possible in order to make their lives easier so why not do it?
Others have different motives and drivers.
I don't have time.Ok, I have time.
You disagree that investing is gambling. On what basis?
jog on
duc
Can't see the other 4 gross disposable income quintiles ( Does " disposable " mean , AFTER tax ? I don't know ... )At $288,311 in 2021-22, average equivalised gross disposable income per household for the top quintile was 5.3 times as high as that for the lowest income quintile ($54,134). Net worth (wealth) per household at $3.2 million for the highest quintile was 5.9 times as high as that for the lowest quintile ($551,460)."
Life is gambling to a large degree. Importantly Trading and gambling require a strategy and risk mitigation to be successful.
I look at Gambling vs Investment in quite a different way
I believe that If you are a Fundamentalist and know very little about FA you are a GAMBLER
I believe that If you are a Technical Analyst and know very little about TA you are also a GAMBLER
In Summary I don't think there is a Know-It- All in either Discapline
But then there is always the Fantasists who believe " She'll be right in the Long Term if we can only live a long life
They call themselves INVESTORS
I'm Sorry, but I call them GAMBLERS also
Mr Skate, Sir I have been watching and reading your words of wisdom since i joined ASF.
1. Building wealth versus entertainment
Investing and gambling have different definitions and involve different levels of risk, uncertainty, and control. Investing typically involves a long-term strategy and requires careful research, and analysis, to make informed decisions. Gambling, on the other hand, is the act of placing bets with uncertain outcomes as a form of entertainment. Gambling is certainly not a reliable way to build wealth for most people. @rcw1 may disagree.
2. The two main differences between investing and gambling
Investors can manage risk whereas gambling, on the other hand, involves a much higher level of risk, as the outcome is highly uncertain and often beyond anyone's control. Investors may hold onto their investments for years, while gambling typically involves short-term bets with an instant adrenalin rush.
3. Professional punters play a different game
However, it's important to note that professional punters play a different game. They have the knowledge, experience, and resources to make informed decisions and manage risk effectively. With first-hand experience, I can assure you that professional punters operate in a different realm than the average person.
Skate.
If we are going to discuss this rationally, an apples to apples comparison is required. We are not comparing participants. We are comparing the game itself.
So let's look at some of the major components of both games.
1. Uncertainty. Both contain uncertain outcomes because both a reliant on the future, which is unknown.
2. Probabilities. Gambling is more certain here as there are clearly defined outcomes. A die has 6 sides, 52 cards in a pack, the roulette wheel has X numbers, etc. Investing has far more potential outcomes or risks.
3. Participants. Both will have their professional and amateur participants. You are more likely to be able to find a sucker in gambling than in investing/trading.
4. Control. Both are equivalent. Place your bet and wait on the outcome.
5. Edge. This is the key variable in both. If you have a true edge, that is the game you should play. I have through the years heard (and given) many arguments on an edge for investing/trading. Most are spurious. Diligent analysis has more relevance in what not to do/buy than what to do/buy, particularly when discussing fundamentals. A mathematical edge is best. Card counting in blackjack being a good example.
6. Emotional control. Which game provides the most intense challenge to character and discipline?
7. Extrinsic influences. For gambling, there are few if any (hot tips). For investing/trading, you are bombarded daily with reports, tips, news stories, TV, etc. Some are helpful some of the time. Some not so much. Noise. Noise is far more of an issue in trading/investing than in gambling.
8. Money at risk. A bit of a generalisation here, but 'most' will risk less gambling than in the market. There will be degenerates that bet their house on the turn of a card, but on average, more is risked in markets than gambling. This is to do with perception. Gambling is frowned upon as irresponsible and should only be entertainment. Markets are considered an 'investment' a positive undertaking, a career choice. Markets are degenerate casinos posing as bastions of capitalism.
jog on
duc
@ducati916, I appreciate your attempt to compare gambling and investing/trading in a rational manner. However, I would like to offer some counterpoints to your arguments, playing the "Devil's Advocate"
1. Uncertainty
While it's true that both gambling and investing/trading involve uncertain outcomes, the nature of uncertainty is different in each activity. In gambling, the outcomes are inherently uncertain due to the randomness of events, whereas in investing/trading, uncertainty arises from the complexities of the market and the difficulty of predicting future events.
2. Probabilities
You argue that gambling has more certain probabilities due to the clearly defined outcomes. However, I would argue that investing/trading has more predictable outcomes in the long run, as historical data and trends can provide valuable insights into future performance. In contrast, gambling outcomes are largely independent of past events.
3. Participants
While both activities have professional and amateur participants, I would argue that investing/trading has a higher proportion of informed and skilled participants compared to gambling. This is because investing/trading requires a deeper understanding of finance, economics, and market dynamics, which tends to attract more sophisticated participants.
4. Control
You argue that both activities have equivalent control, as participants simply place their bets and wait for the outcome. However, I would argue that investing/trading requires more active management, as participants need to constantly monitor their portfolios and adjust their strategies in response to changing market conditions.
5. Edge
You argue that a mathematical edge is best in both activities. However, I would argue that a mathematical edge is more easily achievable in investing/trading due to the availability of historical data and the ability to analyse market trends. In contrast, gambling outcomes are largely independent of past events, making it more difficult to develop a reliable mathematical edge.
6. Emotional control
You argue that gambling provides a greater challenge to character and discipline. However, I would argue that investing/trading requires greater emotional control, as participants need to navigate market volatility and avoid making impulsive decisions based on short-term market fluctuations.
7. Extrinsic influences
You argue that gambling has fewer extrinsic influences compared to investing/trading. However, I would argue that both activities are subject to external influences, such as market trends, economic conditions, and regulatory changes.
8. Money at risk
You argue that gambling typically involves less money at risk compared to investing/trading. However, I would argue that the amount of money at risk is a personal choice and can vary greatly in both activities.
In conclusion, while there are some valid points in your comparison of gambling and investing/trading, I believe that there are also some important differences to consider. Both activities involve uncertain outcomes and require skill and strategy, but the nature of uncertainty, the availability of data, and the level of emotional control required differ in each activity.
Skate.
As we welcome the New Year
I've taken a moment to reflect on my trading journey over the past 26 weeks. I'm proud to say that my trading days have been halted for now, and I'm excited to share some key takeaways and insights from this period.
Firstly, my portfolio has seen a significant increase in value over the past 26 weeks compared to the previous financial year, with a tidy sum returned.
1. Adapting to changing market conditions has been a key factor in my success. With ongoing geopolitical and political tensions, the markets have been incredibly volatile, and it's been crucial to stay responsive.
2. Risk management has also been my focus.
Interest
3. I've been working hard to develop a long-term investment strategy and after the market closes for the year, I'll share a progress report on my transition from active trading to investing. While some might find it dull, I'm hoping there is some interest.
Skate.
Mr Skate,
1. Adaptability. With a long term 'set and forget' strategy, you have just thrown away adaptability. Certainly the ability to adapt quickly in the short term.
2. Risk management. Now I may be wrong, but you have inferred that your portfolio will be managed on the fundamentals. Now excuse me for being blunt, but you are clueless on the fundamentals. The fundamentals as an analysis tool are far more difficult than the technicals.
Is there an increased reward for that extra layer of complexity? Probably not. Buffett is often trotted out as an example of success using the fundamentals. Yes he is.
How about Eddie Lampert? Often touted (previously) as the next/new Buffett.
View attachment 167973
‘It’s done, it’s over’: Eddie Lampert’s Sears case won’t go to Supreme Court
Three courts had already rejected an attempt from Lampert and other lenders to wring millions more from what’s left of the former retail giant.www.retaildive.com
Blew himself up. This was a very smart and sophisticated fundamentals chap. It is a tough gig.
3. I will be fascinated and following this very closely.
Now you may/may not remember this thread: https://www.aussiestockforums.com/threads/the-education-of-an-investor.34402/
jog on
duc
I may be wrong, but you have inferred that your portfolio will be managed on the fundamentals.
Now excuse me for being blunt, but you are clueless on the fundamentals. The fundamentals as an analysis tool are far more difficult than the technical.
1. I apologise for any confusion caused by my previous responses. To clarify, my comments about adapting to changing market conditions and risk management were in the context of my trading experience, and not related to my new endeavour of investing.
2. You may also be confused about the point you raised (highlighted above)
Firstly, I'd like to confirm that I won't be actively managing the investment portfolio beyond adding to the original position. My selection of the six companies was based on a thorough evaluation of their fundamentals, with a strong emphasis on dividends and franking credits.
3. Projected capital gains were not a consideration in my original brief, and I apologise if my previous responses may have caused any confusion on this point.
4. To provide further context, I'd like to direct you to the six individual posts I made on my reasoning for each selection and my methodology of evaluation. These posts "outline the key factors" that led me to choose each company for my investment portfolio.
5. Hey @ducati916, check out this throwback post from 5 years ago
It gives a brief history of transiting from a debt collector to being a Financial Judge in the N.S.W. court system. I know, I know - it's a pretty unusual career path, but let me tell you, the best part was helping people find financial solutions that work for everyone involved. It wasn't always easy, but it was always worth it. I don't accept being clueless as one of my attributes.
Dump it Here
Skate a lot of investment boils back to personality, a friend of mine is a great believer in the market and has been all in for 10 years. I'm much more conservative and always carry enough cash, to be able to afford to lose everything in the market. ATM he is braking out in hives, I'm enjoying...www.aussiestockforums.com
Skate.
I will be fascinated and following this very closely.
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