Dump it Here

[Skate]

While Skate, I'm sure is quite capable of defending himself if he so chose, I will do so as in my short time of reading his posts I have found him to be exceptionally polite and patient.

Also there are some rather obvious lessons to be learned.

So:

"I was not expecting a diatribe from you just a simple response. "

I suggest you look up the meaning of the underlined word.

"Addressing me by name once is sufficient, twice is permissible any more than that sounds condescending. Avoid over using someone's name, it is rude and sounds manipulative."

I would disagree.

"My father owned an engineering company. It convinced me it is a fool's path."

As a 'trader' you are self-employed. You are a 'business', unless you are employed to trade for someone [bank/hedge fund/etc].

On a bigger picture basis: without those who engage in business, we are back to hunting/gathering. Only through specialisation/diversification of production can we continue to consume: which by definition means someone has to create and run businesses. If you are an 'employee' you are employed by a business owner.

"I learnt from my father running your own business was totally rdiculous and not worth the effort."

Such a generalisation is both ill-informed and disrespectful to those that do.

"Loans are poison, you dance to another man and the economies tune.
When the relationship breaks down, often your family have no where else to go and no means to leave because all your assets are 'in the business'."

A 'loan' is a tool like any other. It can be prudent, it can be dangerous. Again, simply a generalisation without merit.

"Bingo, that is my #1 FA indicator for a strong business. See FA isn't so hard if you think about it Skate!"

As has been demonstrated on another thread, recognising legitimate cash-flow from simply cash-flow, is not as straightforward as one might imagine.

"There are some emotions I can't feel. Fear is one of them, it just converts to the feeling of power. I quite welcome failure, it is a great teacher."

Possibly you are unique in the human race.

"If you have fear, you clearly don't have confidence you know what you are doing. If you don't know what you are doing, don't trade."

Skate is referring to a 'business', not to trading. Even if it were 'trading' as a business, if you have quit your job, have taken your savings/loan/whatever and undertaken the business of trading, if your trade expectancy is below that initially contemplated and the rent/mortgage/bills/etc are due [as they always are], I would argue it is only natural to feel stress/fear.

I would seriously consider tendering an apology to Skate.

jog on
duc

ducati916, thank you for your kind words..

William Shakespeare once said
"The Eyes are the window to your soul"

From my experience
"The words people use are a window to their soul"

Skate.

 

[qldfrog]

"Discretionary index trading short and long 30-40%

Systematic
When it’s turned on long and short
60% for 1 and 48% the other"
As long as you cut your loss and run your win as Tech/A highlighted so often in the past, all good

I hope Ann has some fears

Fear is the difference between the dead hero and the alive family man.
i believe this is valid for the market too.
My view is there is no place for self confidence in a game where rules are changed, cheating is allowed by and for bigger players than us.
So i manage risks more than my fears..fears lessened but still present and part of who i am

 

[Darc Knight]

This thread is a thread of wisdom and learning. My takeaway lesson from all this is: don't pi$$ off Ann!

 

[Skate]

This thread is a thread of wisdom and learning. My takeaway lesson from all this is: don't pi$$ off Ann!

Darc Knight, Ann understands her own demons & from what she has posted about her personal life it's heartbreaking for me to read.

Ann's responses to my posts are from her perspective which differ from mine & that's okay, we are all different & fascinating in our own special way.

Skate.

 

[willy1111]

An early post of Skates he mentions he likes to offend people, get them worked up and angry and then by the end of the conservation have them apologising to him.

All a bit of a game, manipulation, sales, fun for him...I can't help but think maybe he is working this on Ann...he put the bait out, her post would seem a little abrupt so much so that Duc suggest she apologize. Maybe he is gaming her maybe not...having read that earlier post of Skates makes me read all his posts wondering if he is working another angle.

But all in all I have come to a similar conclusion as Skates to my approach to the markets...mechanical coded trend following strategy.

Skate have you had much exposure to Nick Radge?

 

[willy1111]

Discretionary

6/10 at 3R wins
4/10 at .7R losses

Systematic

4/10 at 5.6 R wins and
6/10 at 1 R losses

How many trades a month/year on average for each?

 

[Skate]

Skate have you had much exposure to Nick Radge?

I have read every article, listened to every podcasts & viewed all his video's I have found on the internet & what was on his old website.

I hold Nick in highest esteem as most. I really enjoy his plain speaking approach to trading. (I have never met Nick Radge but I have spoken to him)

Skate.

 

[willy1111]

I have read every article, listened to every podcasts & viewed all his video's I have found on the internet & what was on his old website.

I hold Nick in highest esteem as most. I really enjoy his plain speaking approach to trading. (I have never met Nick Radge but I have spoken to him)

Skate.

As do I, the learnings I have taken from him have carried the greatest weight far and above any other I have encountered.

A lot of what you have posted, or beliefs adopted about trading sounded familiar

 

[satanoperca]

Failed heaps of times
No fear of failure it’s expected

This is profound and once one understands it, the fear is no longer. Thanks for saying as it is, appreciated

 

[willy1111]

This is profound and once one understands it, the fear is no longer. Thanks for saying as it is, appreciated

There is minor failure and catastrophic failure... minor failure is expected ...not many take on so much risk to risk catastrophic failure, catastrophic failure is not expected.

 

[tech/a]

How many trades a month/year on average for each?

Varies I trade discretionary spasmodically as time and conditions look ripe
I’d say around 10 a month

Systematic
50 ish a year

There is minor failure and catastrophic failure... minor failure is expected ...not many take on so much risk to risk catastrophic failure.

Why would you expose yourself to catastrophic risk.

 

[Skate]

A lot of what you have posted, or beliefs adopted about trading sounded familiar

Disclaimer
Nick is a business person catering to the needs of a customer base & I believe him to be honest & trustworthy, a rare commodity in our times.

Generic Posts
willy111, my posts are generic in nature & I use the language commonly touted by educational trainers, ideas & words commonly used stick with you after awhile because you hear them so often & they align with you beliefs.

It sounds familiar
Most of what Nick says sounds familiar because it is familiar, meaning most of his ideas are not his own when it comes to education, he levers off what he has learnt from others who have come before him & he repackages & presents the information in his unique style (that I enjoy)

Regurgitated information
All financial educators stand on the shoulders of others who have come before them. Same information rehashed in different ways.

Trading Ideas
Nicks tradings ideas are nothing new either, there is nothing new when it comes to trading ideas (I've written about that as well) Nick's turnkey strategies are strategies that have been around for a long time, they are repackaged common strategies that have been doing the rounds for quite a few years.

Not reinvented the wheel
Nick has not reinvented the wheel & nor should he, in his defense he has formulated his own propriety parameters through his extensive backtesting & applied it to the idea of others. (FYI - Nick is not a coder)

Skate

 

[willy1111]

Why would you expose yourself to catastrophic risk.

I wouldn't knowingly...my point was that expecting failure needs to be put into context.

 

[willy1111]

All good.

Discretionary

6/10 at 3R wins
4/10 at .7R losses

Systematic

4/10 at 5.6 R wins and
6/10 a5 1 R losses

Varies I trade discretionary spasmodically as time and conditions look ripe
I’d say around 10 a month

Systematic
50 ish a year

So help me understand this in some context, if the average risk R is 2% of capital (often widely touted in trading circles as acceptable risk per trade).

Per 10 trades Discretionary would be (6 wins x 3 x 2% risk = 36%) less (4 losses x 0.7 x 2% risk = 5.6%) = net of 30.4% return on capital per 10 trades which you say you might do per month. Just 3 months a year of this would produce 90% return on capital per year.

And

Per 10 trades Systematic would be (4 wins x 5.6 x 2% risk = 44.8%) less (6 losses x 1 x 2% risk = 12%) = net of 32.8% return on capital per 10 trades which you say you might do 50 ish a year which would produce 164% return on capital per year.

Have I got that right? or am I missing something?

 

[Skate]

I wouldn't knowingly...my point was that expecting failure needs to be put into context.

**** happens
willy1111, I'm with you, no one knowingly puts themselves in harms way but no matter how smart we are, or how hard we work, we will regularly be hit by news, circumstances, and developments that are unforeseen and the stock market gods will periodically use us for their entertainment, and there is nothing we can do to prevent it, so we have to be ready and mentally prepared to realise drawdowns and losses are part of the trading process, so take it on the chin & be the ‘best loser’ you can possible be.

Skate.

 

[willy1111]

**** happens
willy1111, I'm with you, no one knowingly puts themselves in harms way but no matter how smart we are, or how hard we work, we will regularly be hit by news, circumstances, and developments that are unforeseen and the stock market gods will periodically use us for their entertainment, and there is nothing we can do to prevent it, so we have to be ready and mentally prepared to realise drawdowns and losses are part of the trading process, so take it on the chin & be the ‘best loser’ you can possible be.

Skate.

Agreed...we play the trading game in the expectation that over the long term the sum of our wins will be greater than the some of our losses. Otherwise we wouldn't play the game.

Analogies can be drawn to many things...as it is tennis season here in Oz now... players can still win a match even though they may lose many points, games or even sets, they know that is generally part of the game.

 

[Smurf1976]

Why would you expose yourself to catastrophic risk.

Rationally you wouldn't but avoiding catastrophic risk first requires that you understand the risk exists.

There are countless examples from history, largely in finance and engineering but also in other fields, where catastrophic outcomes occurred because either nobody understood the risk, it was dismissed as too unlikely, it was covered up for personal or corporate gain or someone knew and simply assumed that everyone else also knew and so never mentioned it.

The biggest disasters, financial, engineering or other, usually involve one or more of those elements.

 

[Skate]

But all in all I have come to a similar conclusion as Skates to my approach to the markets...mechanical coded trend following strategy.

willy1111, do you trade a weekly or Daily strategy ?

Breakout Strategy
I trade a weekly strategy - a modified version of (1) Captain Black (breakout strategy), a modified version of (2) Nicholas Darvas, (Darvas box system) & (3) John Bollinger, (Bollinger Bands)

My 3 favourites traders
My 3 favourites traders are listed above & I trade off their ideas (I have not reinvented the wheel either)

My trading Strategy
I actively trade my 'Hybrid Strategy' that is such named as it encapsulates & combines the methodology of each trader I have listed above. (my Hybrid system is 3 strategies in one)

Skate.

 

[willy1111]

willy1111, do you trade a weekly or Daily strategy ?

Neither...I find monthly to be my sweet spot it's especially great when travelling not to have to think about running scans/placing orders every day/weekend.

 

[tech/a]

So help me understand this in some context, if the average risk R is 2% of capital (often widely touted in trading circles as acceptable risk per trade).

Per 10 trades Discretionary would be (6 wins x 3 x 2% risk = 36%) less (4 losses x 0.7 x 2% risk = 5.6%) = net of 30.4% return on capital per 10 trades which you say you might do per month. Just 3 months a year of this would produce 90% return on capital per year.

And

Per 10 trades Systematic would be (4 wins x 5.6 x 2% risk = 44.8%) less (6 losses x 1 x 2% risk = 12%) = net of 32.8% return on capital per 10 trades which you say you might do 50 ish a year which would produce 164% return on capital per year.

Have I got that right? or am I missing something?

Pretty right but my risk is 1% systematic
And at the moment .7 of a % discretionary

The return on capital allocated to trading is a small amount
Against net available funds.
I don’t want or need to make a living from trading.

I enjoy the challenge and most of all the continuous journey of learning,