Dump it Here

[rnr]

Ok, thank you! I'll update them all then! It asks either for TFN or ABN, which one should I use?

Hi Laura,
Try doing this web search "Am I a share trader or investor for ATO purposes?" and you will get access to a reasonable amount of info to consider. If you have problems deciding which way to go, then seek the services of a tax accountant.
Cheers,
Rob

 

[Skate]

just been looking at the au bank's and it seem's that every time the dow has a big up or a big down the au bank's reflect that , yesterday combank $58.88 jump to 60.o81 then a clime to 60.327 that was with a dow jum of 300p from the ending of a corona virus trial , today dow drop 300 combank 59.782 to 59.068 - and across the line all of the bank's on my list have replicated this .the only other share's that i have on my watch list replicating this are AGL and Origin .has any one been using this for profit ?

@Adamroweco it will come to no surprise that our market mirrors the DOW & there have been many charts recently posted to reflect this. The banks make up a large portion of the markets & if they have a bad day the ASX tends to have a bad day

In saying this
Not many traders entertain banks in their portfolio as they normally lack volatility (but not of recently). Investors who hold the banks do so for other reasons entirely being for dividends & perceived safety. When the banks are held for dividends the daily fluctuations become less relevant.

Why do our bank's fluctuate
Financials are connected & influenced by global markets

Skate.

 

[Skate]

Disclaimer
I have an involvement with Share trade Tracker

Question
Recently a member has asked about "Share Trade Tracker" a program I use extensively for my weekly updates & reports in this thread. If Share Trade Tracker was made available to all ASF members for 180 days (6 months) free of charge with unrestricted use & support would members take up the offer ?

Share Trade Tracker
STT has "free Yahoo Data for updates" & inclusive with the latest release version now integrates for those who have Norgate Data as well as others. Also if there are a large number of users taking this up this offer there would be some direct support for new users on the ASF forum

Let me know
If this offer is worth organising.

Skate.

 

[Skate]

It's a lonely interest, trading or investing

@Garpal Gumnut comments are so true & at times everyone starts to wonder if you are "trading correctly" or if there is really such a thing as "trading correctly". As traders, we tend to gravitate towards a trading method that feels comfortable. To succeed at trading I believe you need a system in place & trading along with the “Action Portfolio” (my latest example) is one way to share an experience in the hope of understanding some of the challenges from a traders perspective.

Learning as we go
We are all faced with making decisions every day & trading is no different, except it's vital we make smart decisions when trading. Trading along with the Action Strategy you'll learn as you go by trading small positions & if we make a mistake small loses are bearable. Making small mistakes now will give you the skills & experience needed to make the right decisions later on. The very act of trading along is much more important than getting it right.

The risk is real when your money is on the line
Nothing can be guaranteed when entering the market & the risk of losing your money is very real & that’s why I've used every means at my disposal to minimize the elements of risk by trading in the most efficient way. The idea is to get the maximum return for the amount of risk taken for each dollar spent.

I've been recently reminded of "Black Swan" events
There will always be share market booms & busts, but the share market has consistently out preformed most other investment classes. These recent fluctuations affect the various market participants in different ways, but one thing is true, the worst affected are those who are randomly speculating without a sound trading system or the right tools. By following some simple tried & tested methods, we can learn to protect our capital & improve our overall investment returns.

Skate.

 

[Skate]

As traders, we are all different
In my previous post, I made an off-the-cuff remark about "trading small positions" without realising what that could mean to others. The Action Strategy is trading a $20k portfolio & to some, it's a fortune saved over a long period. Referencing @peter2 "Detour Strategy" his bet size starts at $10k. Whereas the minimum bet size of my trading starts at $15k ramping up "using pyramid position sizing" to a maximum of $25k bet size, so it's really horses for courses because as traders, we are all different.

The Action Strategy last full year backtest (2019)
It's handy to look back in hindsight to get a feel how the Action Strategy would have performed by changing a parameter setting (the size of the bet). I've been pondering what the average Super Fund at retirement would be. AMP super indicates it's a tad under $300k. I'll use $300k for the exercise of comparing the difference between $20k versus a $300k portfolio (that equates to $1k bet sizes versus $15k bet sizes)

Using a trading portfolio of $300k
The point of the exercise is to demonstrate that portfolio size does matter. The difference in performance percentage is roughly the same but you can't eat percentages only dollars. A $13,863 return is nothing to sneeze at but not a livable amount in retirement whereas $227,091 makes for a different lifestyle. Trading isn’t about getting rich, it's more about financial independence supporting yourself without an income, being able to choose to live your life on your terms.

Let's look at a "side by side comparison" of what bet sizing can make to your trading returns



Skate.

 

[aus_trader]

Yes for every share ticker, with compushare you have to update tfn, credit directions and communication details.their site is atrocious and very slow.was worse 6 month ago.
Links services is better in that they default tfn , coms etc from your profile.
But for each update, compushare sends you a letter and get paid by the company of the share involved, a rort ...no other name
And extremely time consuming until you basically have done it for the whole XAO...

I thought I was the only one muddling through this pain...
Thank you all for sharing the pain of Comp Share -> What a dinosaur !

This is what I see... for ages every time I try to update anything...


I spend so much of my weekend on this crap I actually feel like smashing the screen...



Er… sorry about that violent thought, I'll only damage my own equipment. But that's the frustration we are experiencing. I mean we are giving up our precious time that could be used for catching up on chores, doing the loan or gardening on the weekend instead for sitting in front of the computer for hours with a snail pace register update which is Comp Shares !

Agree qldfrog, Link and other juniors work so much faster, but the irony of the situation is bulk of the asx shares are still with the ancient dinosaur !

Situation is not resolved till either a new CEO or management will come in and re-structure their whole ComputerShare platform (that could happen quickly) or till newer tech savvy share registry management companies will take all the market share and extinct this dinosaur (which could take years of more pain for us ! ).

Skate, Thank you for allowing me to dump years of frustration built up in me at your "Dump it here" thread. I feel much better, although the culprit (CS) remains with the bulk of our holdings ! I am optimistic things will improve... one day ​

 

[qldfrog]

View attachment 103625
As traders, we are all different
In my previous post, I made an off-the-cuff remark about "trading small positions" without realising what that could mean to others. The Action Strategy is trading a $20k portfolio & to some, it's a fortune saved over a long period. Referencing @peter2 "Detour Strategy" his bet size starts at $10k. Whereas the minimum bet size of my trading starts at $15k ramping up "using pyramid position sizing" to a maximum of $25k bet size, so it's really horses for courses because as traders, we are all different.

The Action Strategy last full year backtest (2019)
It's handy to look back in hindsight to get a feel how the Action Strategy would have performed by changing a parameter setting (the size of the bet). I've been pondering what the average Super Fund at retirement would be. AMP super indicates it's a tad under $300k. I'll use $300k for the exercise of comparing the difference between $20k versus a $300k portfolio (that equates to $1k bet sizes versus $15k bet sizes)

Using a trading portfolio of $300k
The point of the exercise is to demonstrate that portfolio size does matter. The difference in performance percentage is roughly the same but you can't eat percentages only dollars. A $13,863 return is nothing to sneeze at but not a livable amount in retirement whereas $227,091 makes for a different lifestyle. Trading isn’t about getting rich, it's more about financial independence supporting yourself without an income, being able to choose to live your life on your terms.

Let's look at a "side by side comparison" of what bet sizing can make to your trading returns

View attachment 103623

Skate.

And not to state the obvious but increasing bets also means increasing potential losses so please:
for any newcomers with shining $ backtest figures in the eyes (like my 33Millions if I had invested 100k in 2005) well..you will pay taxes and how well will you handle loosing the equivalent of your house in a week during a market crash .So please do not start borrowing money you can not afford to lose and bet using margin lending.Stop loss get smashed thru, options expire, etc
Mr Skate has already reinforced this theme, but just to be sure no newcomer get burns
Dream realistically

 

[aus_trader]

And not to state the obvious but increasing bets also means increasing potential losses so please:
for any newcomers with shining $ backtest figures in the eyes (like my 33Millions if I had invested 100k in 2005) well..you will pay taxes and how well will you handle loosing the equivalent of your house in a week during a market crash .So please do not start borrowing money you can not afford to lose and bet using margin lending.Stop loss get smashed thru, options expire, etc
Mr Skate has already reinforced this theme, but just to be sure no newcomer get burns
Dream realistically

Yes qldfrog, totally agree. I believe only free standing money (i.e. savings, money in your brokerage account etc) should be used for trading in general.

Any borrowing or leverage via the use of CFD's etc will make it difficult to stay the course as there is extra pressure to make up gains to compensate for interest costs and overnight funding charges.

 

[investtrader]

I thought I was the only one muddling through this pain...
Thank you all for sharing the pain of Comp Share -> What a dinosaur !

This is what I see... for ages every time I try to update anything...
View attachment 103630

I spend so much of my weekend on this crap I actually feel like smashing the screen...

View attachment 103629

Er… sorry about that violent thought, I'll only damage my own equipment. But that's the frustration we are experiencing. I mean we are giving up our precious time that could be used for catching up on chores, doing the loan or gardening on the weekend instead for sitting in front of the computer for hours with a snail pace register update which is Comp Shares !

Agree qldfrog, Link and other juniors work so much faster, but the irony of the situation is bulk of the asx shares are still with the ancient dinosaur !

Situation is not resolved till either a new CEO or management will come in and re-structure their whole ComputerShare platform (that could happen quickly) or till newer tech savvy share registry management companies will take all the market share and extinct this dinosaur (which could take years of more pain for us ! ).

Skate, Thank you for allowing me to dump years of frustration built up in me at your "Dump it here" thread. I feel much better, although the culprit (CS) remains with the bulk of our holdings ! I am optimistic things will improve... one day ​

Hey aus_trader,
I gave up on all of that admin crap years ago. I now use Netwealth ASX:NWL for my three accounts, including my super fund. While it appears to be a 'wrap' platform, and it is, I use it for all of my share trading and investments. Most of these platforms are restricted to financial advisers, but Netwealth allows private investors with no adviser fees. You can place orders from directly within the platform. Brokerage is reasonable. Order types are basic but sufficient what I do (weekly trend).Absolutely zero paperwork to do and end of year reports can go straight to your accountant. It is the fastest growing platform in Australia.
There are fees, but they have a family share thing which caps the fees. If you are running a trading business I consider the fees inconsequential and just part of the costs of business.

 

[qldfrog]

I wou

Hey aus_trader,
I gave up on all of that admin crap years ago. I now use Netwealth ASX:NWL for my three accounts, including my super fund. While it appears to be a 'wrap' platform, and it is, I use it for all of my share trading and investments. Most of these platforms are restricted to financial advisers, but Netwealth allows private investors with no adviser fees. You can place orders from directly within the platform. Brokerage is reasonable. Order types are basic but sufficient what I do (weekly trend).Absolutely zero paperwork to do and end of year reports can go straight to your accountant. It is the fastest growing platform in Australia.
There are fees, but they have a family share thing which caps the fees. If you are running a trading business I consider the fees inconsequential and just part of the costs of business.

ld have to investigate, where is your money/chess held, in case of collapse, where do you stand, etc

 

[Roller_1]

Hi Skate, I think ive read in this thread that you are using the $vix for a volatility measure? Is that a norgate symbol? I'm assuming it the Aus vix. It must be staring me in the face but i can't find it!

 

[Skate]

Each time you see the Action Strategy "update logo" at the beginning of one of my posts it signifies that the post relates to the strategy.

Hi Skate, I think ive read in this thread that you are using the $vix for a volatility measure? Is that a norgate symbol? I'm assuming it the Aus vix. It must be staring me in the face but i can't find it!

@Roller_1, yes $Vix is a Norgate symbol & "no it's not the Aussie VIX" but the (CBOE) Volatility Index of the S&P 500 index options. The CBOE Volatility Index reflects the investor's consensus view of (30-day) future market volatility, it provides a measure of market risk & investors sentiments. I'll explain the Norgate's $VIX index a little better so others might understand why it's used in the Action Strategy.

The Volatility Index, or VIX, is a real-time market index
The Cboe Volatility Index (VIX Index), measure the market’s expectation of future volatility. The VIX Index is based on options of the S&P 500 Index of the U.S. market & it's a perfect gauge of U.S. equity market volatility & that's why I believe Duc uses it as his primary measure of volatility. In simple terms, it's a barometer of equity market volatility. The VIX Index is really the U.S. market's "fear gauge".

The trend is tied to a "volatility measure" taken from the VIX or "other sources"

the "Volatility Dependant Stop" is a clever concept as it uses the VIX in combination with extreme parameters that I found hard to swallow, but they worked like a dream to my amazement. Bandying the words like "Volatility & Vix" is meaningless without the explanation of application "that will remain a secret".

$VIX - Volatility Stop
The "VIX Volatility Stop" is used in the Action Strategy with two other stops forming the exit strategy. The Action Strategy exit strategy is complex to explain without giving too much away as @ducati916 has passed on this information in private. I can say the Vix volatility stop involves the "average of the $VIX" of an n-period. The Vix volatility stop is driven by a separate "VIX Index Filter" & a simple "Stop or Go" filter derived from Duc's ideas. The Vix is calculated using the average of the highest high value of the last n-period, less the average of the lowest low value of the last same n-periods that changes from bar to bar.

Skate.

 

[Skate]

And not to state the obvious but increasing bets also means increasing potential losses so please: for any newcomers with shining $ backtest figures in the eyes Mr Skate has already reinforced this theme, but just to be sure no newcomer get burns. Dream realistically

@qldfrog is absolutely right, the whole "Dump it here" thread is littered with warnings about the dangers of trading & the associated risks. My previous post visually demonstrated that portfolio size does matter & it's not to encourage overtrading or increase their trading portfolio. Trading the Action Strategy with small positions makes small loses bearable when they come along. The point of the Action Strategy exercise was to encourage others to get involved.

The basic rules for trading
1. Always trade with money you can afford to lose.
2. Keep a conservative attitude towards the market.
3. Never forget that trading is a game of probabilities.
4. Place limit orders before entering a trade.
5. Know at what level you will exit before placing the limit order
6. Stick to your trading plan & don’t violate it at any cost.

Skate.

 

[Skate]

The fear of losing is sometimes crippling
Trading behaviours are mainly based on fear of losing money & sometimes it's the fear of missing out. Fear of losing is based on a lack of understanding of how to handle trades after experiencing a substantial loss that we all feel at times.

The fear of not knowing
Well, let's start off with the biggest fear of all & it's the fear of not knowing how much money we might lose when trading. We can compound the situation by having the fear of being wrong & nobody likes to be wrong.

The fear of missing out (FOMO)
Some traders will buy because of the fear they’ll miss out & trading like this can get ugly quick smart.

The fear of losing
It's human nature to feel fear & we'll do whatever it takes to avoid it, sometimes making the wrong decision, sometimes taking no action at all, sometimes holding a trade too long or hesitant to sell thinking the price will recover.

Being fearful to take the next trade
After a few losses, you become fearful to pull the trigger to take the next position, possibly missing out on a profitable trade.

Being fearful of what the future holds
Some are held back from trading because they fear "the worst is yet to come".

Having the fear of not being good enough
At times we’ve all been fearful that perhaps we are not good enough even though we know what to do, our fear can keep us from executing our trading plan.

Skate.

 

[Warr87]

The basic rules for trading
1. Always trade with money you can afford to lose.
2. Keep a conservative attitude towards the market.
3. Never forget that trading is a game of probabilities.
4. Place limit orders before entering a trade.
5. Know at what level you will exit before placing the limit order
6. Stick to your trading plan & don’t violate it at any cost.

All incredible important, though can be easily forgotten.

I personally find #1, 3, and 6 to be the most important for me.

 

[aus_trader]

I wou

ld have to investigate, where is your money/chess held, in case of collapse, where do you stand, etc

I thought they were investment advisor / managed account type of firm.

Shares probably CHESS held but not sure if all your details such as TFN, Bank Deposit details for Dividends or DRP if you choose and Communications preferences are automatically updated when you purchase a stock or ETF ? If not we still have to deal with a share registry firm.

By the way I don't have a problem with updating my details on a share registry admin company, but it's got to be quick:
- Log in
- Should already take you to currently held shares. Click on any newly purchased.
- Update TFN (if not automatically done), Bank Deposit details for Div's or DRP, Communications preferences e.g. via email.
- Hit submit and it should be done.

Even if you have a few new stocks to update every few weeks, the whole process should take probably 5 mins or so. I am cool with that

It should not take hours, which is why I deal with the Computer Snail Company only on the weekends. I can't think of a worst site these days, even in the good old days a 486 PC or a first Generation Pentium with a Dial Up internet used to get things done faster. We are not talking about doing some complicated Charting or 3D modelling, it's just updating some plain text info (simple admin) for F's sake !

 

[Skate]

All incredible important, though can be easily forgotten.

@Warr87 the items you mentioned are important but fear stops us executing them correctly when trading.

Trading is not an exact science
I've found fear is always the primary driving force when it comes to trading & many never start because they’re worried about losing some or all of their money. Combine that with self-doubt & it's a sure-fire way to keep you from ever getting started.

Losers are a dime a dozen
As traders, we all lose for a variety of reasons, some because of having little trading education or experience, it can also stem from having bad habits or trading when undercapitalised which is a foolproof way to lose money that can lead to substantial losses.

Skate.

 

[Warr87]

@Warr87 the items you mentioned are important but fear stops us executing them correctly when trading.

Completely agree. Overcoming fear and not giving into greed = profitable trader.

 

[Skate]

How rude of me not to thank you for the charts Skate. Much obliged.

It's becoming harder
There have been times when it's hard to think of something new to write about that may help others understand trading a little better. When someone says "thank you" it's a reminder that being kind is part of who we are. Having an "attitude of gratitude" goes a long way in this world.

I want to say thank you
It costs nothing to be nice so it's only fitting that I should thank those who have supported the "Dump it here" thread, a thread I had high expectations of - only to experience a lack of traction in the early days. The thread has morphed into a "Systematic trading thread". Learning is sometimes boring where "doing" is more enjoyable.

Recently we are getting some interest
It's no secret the Action Strategy is the brainchild of @ducati916, it's an accumulation of his ideas posted in this thread with some additional information passed on to me in private. Duc has a style of articulating his views by backing them up with facts & figures in a way that helps others better understand. One of those posts was an inspiration, aha moments of sudden insight to understand a concept that was simple & made sense.

The eureka moment
I read Duc's words over & over, in quiet contemplation, I said to myself "I can do this". It started out as a few indicators & how the indicators related to an individual stock. Taking this one step further the "Duc's Stop & Go" buy indicator was born. Things were looking up. In one of my posts, I had a whinge of losing a quite sizeable chunk of money in the recent "virus crash" only to receive a private message from the Duc offering help to overcome my frustration. This private information gave rise to the "Volatility Dependant Stop". These indicators lead to the formation of the Action Strategy.

Duc, this is a long-winded way of saying "Thank you"
Everyone trading along with the Action Strategy would share the same appreciation.

Skate.

 

[Skate]

Skate.