Depression

[Aussiejeff]

true

i am very thankful that i am still alive and have not been struck by cancer or the alike

Mate, I am 57 and have suffered bouts of depression since 1981 when my paternal grandfather died from prostate cancer. My paternal grandmother died next year 1982. My uncle died in 1983 from lung cancer aged 59, my dad died in 1985 at the age of 65 from multiple myeloma. The depression took the form of mood swings and bouts of fatigue which I totally ignored.

Then I had a reasonable few years when my family weren't dying. I wasn't too depressed then as I remember.

My mum died in 2004 from oesophegal cancer, my favorite auntie in 2005 from stomach cancer and my best mates father (like an uncle) shortly after in the same year from liver cancer. The depression after the last of those three deaths in quick succession saw me in hospital a few times with panic attacks, muscle spasm, all sort of weird stuff happening. Bad dark mood swings (not violent - just in my own little silent world) and various unnaccountable health issues have lead me to be placed initially on Epilem (not so good for mee - gave me tremors) and now onto a trial of Zoloft 50mg by my new doctor.

Hopefully they work! Seem ok so far. They must be ok since I am cracking the odd funny in the middle of the Worst Financial Crisis In Living Memory!

Anyway, just thought I'd throw this in here to let you and others know it's ok to talk about it. We are all in this big rocking boat together.

Cheers, mate.


aj

 

[2020hindsight]

sorry if this is seen as irreverent ...

but the old story of the bloke who goes to the shrink, who talks to him for a while. Then announces , "I'm sorry but I've concluded you're crazy"...

Bloke says "I want a second opinion!"

"Ok" says the shrink, "you're ugly too"

PS Was listening to the radio today ... "I was born under a wandering star" ... (Lee Marvin). Anyway there's one line there ...

"I can't remember a scene that didn't look better looking back "....

And I thought to myself .. THAT's how I plan to feel about the last week on the market lol.

 

[Julia]

I was in my barber's the other day, he is a bit of an intellectual. I was reading a magazine , I think it was a science magazine, New Science or something, anyway it had an article in it that said that the more psychiatrists and counsellors there are in an area the more that people suicide.

So maybe the posters who say "s**t happens and just get on with it are better off in a situation like that.

I know what you mean, GG, but it might be a bit simplistic for people with a genuine biological depression. I have a friend who is bipolar, feels fine with medication but hates the side effects. So she goes off it. Fine for a few days and then she just falls apart. Can't do anything. Reluctantly returns to the medication and is "normal" again in about five days.
I've never felt this level of despair, despite experiencing extreme grief and sadness as a result of some of life's events. But I think that's different from the biological depression described above, and it probably only exacerbates that sort of depression to say "oh hell, just move on".

For those people who are feeling depressed as a result of market losses, surely that's a very normal and reasonable reaction. When we are in such a mess as we are now, with the people running the show apparently devoid of any idea as to how to fix the problem, it would be odd not to be upset and anxious. It's hard to throw one's thoughts forward to the time when inevitably there will be a recovery, especially as Agro says, when he is nearly 60. Really hard.

Suicide and depression was low in England during World War 2.

Yes, that's quite true. In fact I don't think the word "depression" was even around then, in anything other than the financial sense. It has become part of our common language these days to the extent where normal human sadness is being pathologised and treated as an illness. I guess it's hard for GP's (which is often where the prescribing occurs) in their brief consultations to sort out the biological/endogenous from the normal reactive state.

I've also sometimes wondered if the reduction in the suicide rate during WWII had something to do with a nation, Great Britan, banding together against an enemy. That is a very different phenomenon from the personal wealth loss we are seeing at present. Leadership may also have something to do with it.
Churchill had the capacity to rally his people, whereas all of our world at present lacks any sort of coherent or believable leadership.

Losing all your dough is not depression.

I don't know about that. As above, depends how you define depression.
I think for most people, especially if they are not young, it's a terrible shock.
Poverty is dreadful.

Tell a bloke he should be depressed and send him to a trickcyclist and he'll start believing he is depressed.

There's something in that. We have developed a culture of depression and have been encouraged to view every somewhat flattened mood (which everyone experiences from time to time) as significant pathology which requires treatment.

Someone who tops himself or herself because they have lost all their money is not depressed. He or she has lost all their money and can't bear the shame or the poverty or cannot see other riches apart from money or wealth or prestige.

Hard to be categorical about this. For someone who had other issues, impending poverty could be the last straw. I doubt very much it would be about prestige.

The same day I was in the chemists and i was sat in a chair waiting for the chemist to do whatever they do for 10 minutes while they get a packet down from the shelf. I was sat in a chair and couldn't help overhearing the chemist giving out the dope to people and every second bugger was on an antidepressant.

Agreed. I'd prefer to see people referred to a psychologist or counsellor to learn some coping techniques rather than endlessly viewing a solution as something that comes in pill form.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Thanks Julia,

I accept your points.

Sadness is not depression.

People topping themselves in adversity is not an illness in my way of seeing things.

Calling it an illness is like the godbotherers calling it a sin.

gg

 

[Muschu]

Very well put Julia and accepted GG.

Sadness, in my opinion, is akin to grief. It is serious at the time but tends to diminish.

Clinical depression is not resolved by having a lamb roast with Tom Cruise and watching the sun go down over Scientology HQ. It can be very resilient and remove enjoyment of life. Sufferers need support in a form that suits their circumstances.

In my view depression can be latent and apprear as post-traumatic stress [PTSD]. My father-in-law was trapped behind Japanese lines in Singapore during WW2. He escaped, never spoke about his experiences, much later developed depression and carried PTSD to his grave. He never sought support - like many of his generation.
A friend who was seriously injured in Vietnam developed mental reactions 25 years after his service. With support he is now very well.

I hope you all have a pleasant Sunday.

Best wishes

Rick

 

[SirRumpole]

A man who has everything he could reasonably expect still suffers from depression.

Go figure...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-21/james-packer-resigns-from-crown-resorts/9570344

 

[Gringotts Bank]

A man who has everything he could reasonably expect still suffers from depression.

Go figure...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-21/james-packer-resigns-from-crown-resorts/9570344

Clearly he doesn't have everything.

 

[Knobby22]

Clearly he doesn't have everything.

He has made some terrible mistakes and lost a fortune. His ego is hurting, he isn't matching up to his Dad. I feel for him.

 

[SirRumpole]

He has made some terrible mistakes and lost a fortune. His ego is hurting, he isn't matching up to his Dad. I feel for him.

He's still worth $4 billion.

He got into the wrong business pandering to a few high wealth gamblers and hanging out with politicians.

If he ran a media business or anything that did something useful then it might give him more satisfaction and less stress.

 

[CanOz]

A man who has everything he could reasonably expect still suffers from depression.

Go figure...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-21/james-packer-resigns-from-crown-resorts/9570344

Depression is beyond being about having everything....

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Depression is beyond being about having everything....

Depression is caused by unrelenting anxiety. Anxiety is the persistent wanting of something one does not have. To simplify, depression is caused by excessive wanting.

The mind is capable of locking onto an external 'object' of desire (like money, relationships or fame... or even say the well-being of others or world peace) and wanting it to the point of sickness. If it gets what it wants, then you risk addiction - it all depends on the degree of wanting. Unrelenting anxiety can't be handled by the brain for very long before it shuts down to preserve the system (shut down = depression).

It is possible (but difficult) to have very little and want for nothing, and therefore be happy. You can still see this happening in some parts of south east Asia or the Pacific Islands. On the other hand you can own a superyacht and be depressed that your father never loved you, like James. It's the persistent wanting that causes all the problems.

 

[Wysiwyg]

Depression can also result from accumulated loss. We are expected to get back up after life events knock us down. Some do, some don't. Certainly dwelling on loss is not a way out of the tunnel.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Depression can also result from accumulated loss. We are expected to get back up after life events knock us down. Some do, some don't. Certainly dwelling on loss is not a way out of the tunnel.

Yes but loss = wanting.

Whether loss makes you sick or not depends entirely on the degree of mental attachment to something you no longer have. The reptilian brain is designed to release massive bursts of cortisol when you lose, and cortisol feels hideous. So you have to make the brain do something which isn't entirely natural ... stop grasping. Either that or start winning again, and win in a hurry. I remember in the '87 crash people were jumping out of buildings; but equally there would have been those who weren't too fussed.

 

[moXJO]

His old man was real hard on him as a kid. He was always living in that shadow. Rich or poor- fathers failing their sons lead to long term damage.

 

[Wysiwyg]

Maybe you should understand cortisol better. Try this site below and/or take a psychology doctorate.

https://www.healthdirect.gov.au/the-role-of-cortisol-in-the-body

 

[Wysiwyg]

Sometimes people just want to be a nobody.

 

[sptrawler]

I think a lot of depression is brought about, because people have self made expectations and expectations placed on them by others, that is why it is important to remember old phrases.
They were designed to be short, to the point and easy to remember, because when they were phrased, not many could read and write. eg
Treat others, as you would like to be treated.
Everyone knows something, you don't, you just have to listen.
You have two ears and one mouth, use them accordingly.
If you have given it your all, you can't blame yourself for failure, it just wasn't your bag.

The problem today is, everyone is a genius on social media and can't wait to tell you.
Mr and Missus "Joe average" gets a job on morning T.V, all of a sudden they know everything, and have a captive audience to tell it to.
We are way too open to what other people have to say, and seem to take it on board, whether it is right or wrong.
People who have stuffed their live's completely, may well be giving advice on social media.
You don't have to make every post a winner, being conservative might not win every day, but at least you have something left if it all turns to $hit.
I've walked a very conservative path, always worked for wages, never got a 10 bagger, but I'm comfortable.
Allow for the worst, hope for the best, is my motto. I don't expect any handouts, that way you don't get disappointed.

 

[sptrawler]

If I had my way, facebook would be shut down tomorrow. Just my opinion, but I can't see any value in it.
My guess is most people suffer a degree of depression, it is just some don't seem to have the ability to put it to the back of their mind.
I know I do, I've had some terrible things happen, but even though I tear up occasionally, I know folding won't help.

 

[Smurf1976]

Yes but loss = wanting.

Whether loss makes you sick or not depends entirely on the degree of mental attachment to something you no longer have.

Surrounding circumstances and a sense of justice plays a big role there too.

A loss due to natural or otherwise unavoidable circumstances is one thing.

Being a victim of some sort of injustice, either perceived or real, is entirely different and especially so if whatever is lost is something that matters.

 

[explod]

Interesting thread. My Dad lost his Mother to suicide when he was 14 and became very subdued. When 20 doctor advised his father to take him to the pub for a few beers to loosen him up. They lived on a remote farm and he toiled hard. At 24 joined the air force and served in ww2. Was in a nasty crash and just after I was conceived was discharged. 1945. We later settled on a farm, i was the eldest and 7 further siblings arrived later. We lived in a hut for a start, no phone, power, hot water or washing machine. Dad became upset often and abused Mum often and would shoot through to the pup. Often remember her at the table sobbing into her hands. She'd been a city girl. I tended to help my younger siblings without thinking much about anything else. My next Brother (who died four years ago and I miss) would cling to Dad's legs mostly crying. My next Brother was subdued, but often very ill with asthma would try to help also. In the hut we three slept together with Brother two in the middle, he would wet the bed most nights, over myself and then brother 3. I could write 1000's of words on how bad my childhood was but I pushed it aside and rose an optimist who did well in managing people. However I lacked self confidence which became very destructive later in life.

When I view others I see nothing in some and empathy to others. I think we can only really feel the bumps in a road we have ourselves travelled. I have pondered opening up for some time but suddenly tonight felt a need to share it here. Too much for now, its cot time but will hit with the horrors of my police career and failed first marriage in the next day or so.