Depression

[2020hindsight]

a quick comment from the gallery - but I found myself in more arguments (and apologies lol) this fortnight (of bear market) than I did in the previous 12 months of bull market.

methinks the bear from hibernation wakes
his joints are stiff, his mood is proper foul
and spreads contagious manners and headaches
and greets the glorious sunrise with a growl (2020)

Merchant of Venice: I, i
ANTONIO: In sooth, I know not why I am so sad:
It wearies me; you say it wearies you;
But how I caught it, found it, or came by it,
What stuff 'tis made of, whereof it is born,
I am to learn;
And such a want-wit sadness makes of me,
That I have much ado to know myself.

Other Shakespearian quotes with "sad"... http://www.rhymezone.com/r/ss.cgi?q=sad&mode=k

 

[Bushman]

To all who have shared their painful memories so eloquently and with such fortitude, I admire your courage and am heartened by your recovery.

Money is one thing. Your health and capability to enjoy life is another thing all together.

My sincerest well wishes to your continued and joyous journey through this wonderful adventure we call life's path.

Bushman

 

[Julia]

Hi all,

What an interesting thread - thought I might lay on the couch and share my experience if that is all right.

I suffered from depression about 5 years ago. I used to go to bed at night and could feel it well up. I hated nights. I never sought treatment.

One night, I was lying in bed early about 7.00pm on a daylight savings night. I thought, 'f&*k this! - I'm going for a run' ... I then started to exercise reguarly, and found that this helped immensely. I would run whenever the 'well up' came.

Then, after about 2 months, I just 'forgot' and I have never been depressed since. ... and I dont run anymore - I really should though!!! LOL

I am now pretty upbeat about life. I put my experience down to two things;

1. I think that exercise must have released some chemical into my brain that doctors would have probably released with a drug (?)

2. Now, I work teaching HSC kids, and at the end of each year, get the pleasure of seeing them go off into the big wide world. For all the hard things about school teaching and the HSC, that is surprisingly a very optimistic part of it.

I still get emails all the time from my kids asking about jobs advice, for references, telling me about marriages, babies, etc.

I guess for all my religious up bringing, and even current 'mega-church' attendance with all its prosperity crap (hey its fun!) - I hold onto the one thing I have never been told by a minister;

"LIFE IS WHAT YOU MAKE IT"

I should also say that I know that this is just MY experience, and would never presume that depression is something just 'to get over'. My experience was relatively easy compared to others on here, and I empathise greatly.

Oh well... think I might put the baby in a the pram and go for a run

Cheers
Brad

Interesting to hear your experience, Brad. Exercise, in sufficient quantity and of sufficient intensity, releases endorphins which are the body's natural opiates.
This is apparently the basis on which George W. Bush dealt with his alcoholism - i.e. replaced the "high" of the booze with the high of exercise.

 

[Boyou]

I am amused at the way mind can work! When I first spotted the title of this thread I thought it concerned the current market jitters ie A Depression coming..(and perish the thought..I might add)

Was almost releived when I read the first post by it's creator.Not making light of this very debilitating condition at all ..just feeling a sense of releif,because somebody chose to go a bit "public" and so many have offered thoughts and EMPATHY (A wonderful word)

I have had bouts of depression over the years.At times I think I have it licked but the Dog is never too far away...I am heartened to read the openess of the posters here and their individual journeys and strategies for dealing with this all to common condition.
After all, it is probably at the root of so many other problems .Why do alcholics drink? Heroin addicts might have been seeking refuge from an inner storm the first time they shot up.
Thanks STC for starting the ball rolling and all contributors (wether sufferers or not) And remember you don't have to suffer from depression to "suffer" You just have to be married or related or have a close friend who does, to know the devestating effect it can have.

Finally ..apropos of 2020's post ..loved your poem about the Bear! ...very Sheakspearian. I add my own few words.

LIFE: We are all in it together..........

Cheers Ya'll

 

[cuttlefish]

Over the past few six months I've been finding my way out of an episode of extremely deep depression/trauma. The few things I've learnt that could help people that find themselves in similar situations are:

No matter how hard it is and how much your mind is having trouble coping with it, get out of bed and get into the shower, you just have to have a leap of faith that even though it sounds like it will be too difficult it will actually move you on forward through the day, and every day you go forward you put things further behind you.

Force yourself outside and into some hard labour or exercise. If necessary get someone to force you if they can but if you can do it on your own you'll cope better.

Seek out genuine friends and ask for help but be aware that you will only get out of this on your own, the support is only a temporary measure don't begin to rely on it or take it for granted. The support will not be there forever if you don't move on yourself, and make sure you reciprocate once you're out of the woods. Don't get hung up on the people who you expected support from but didn't get it from, just be thankful for the ones that are there.

Actively control your thoughts until you find some sort of sanity. Force yourself to avoid the circular thinking and move forwards. Force yourself to read, watch television, work, do your taxes, crossword puzzles, anything. ANY activity of any kind will help this process so most of all find activity to do. Even if you can only concentrate 1 minute in 30 its a start. Also be aware that nobody will truly understand your situation/state of mind, so don't expect them to. Also watch out for the trap once you've gotten a little way out of the woods and don't need as much mental discipline of falling back into the circular thinking habit.

Avoid day time naps even if your exhausted, sleep at night - the faster you get into a normal sleep routine the better. Similarly set the alarm and force yourself out of bed in the mornings.

Start to understand yourself and what you need to be happy, think about what a happy life would mean for you and it will help to identify the obstacles that are preventing it.

Have faith that time does heal and if you take the positive steps you will find a path out of it. Take the pressure off yourself, help others to take the pressure off as well.

 

[Flying Fish]

"LIFE: We are all in it together.........."

Fantastic!!!

 

[2020hindsight]

and/or ...
Life? no one gets out of it alive ??

Back to depression - when you hear people speaking candidly about it - either here or on youtube etc, it surely must help ? (yes?))
CAN ANY ONE RELATE TO THIS? (BIPOLAR DISORDER)
STEVEN FRY THE LIFE OF A MANIC DEPRESSION'T

Robbie Williams :- (laughing) "I don't have manic depression, I just get "dead upset!!"

So unimpressed but so in awe
Such a saint but such a wh-ore
So self aware so full of ****
So indecisive so adamant

I'm contemplating thinking about thinking
It's overrated just get another drink and
Watch me come undone

They're selling razor blades and mirrors in the street
(come undone)
I pray when I'm coming down you'll be asleep
(come undone)
If I ever hurt you your revenge will be so sweet
Because I'm scum, and I'm your son,
I come undone
I come undone

So rock and roll, so corporate suit
So damn ugly, so damn cute
So well-trained, so animal
So need your love, so **** you all

I'm not scared of dying
I just don't want to
If I stopped lying I'd just disappoint you
I come undone

They're selling razor blades and mirrors in the street
(come undone)
I pray that when I'm coming down you'll be asleep
(come undone)
If I ever hurt you your revenge will be so sweet
Because I'm scum, and I'm your son,
I come undone

So write another ballad
Mix it on a Wednesday
Sell it on a Thursday
Buy a yacht by Saturday
It's a love song
A love song

Do another interview
Sing a bunch of lies
Tell about celebrities that I despise
And sing love songs
We sing love songs
So sincere

(come undone)
They're selling razor blades and mirrors in the street
(come undone)
I pray that when I'm coming down you'll be asleep
(come undone)
The young pretend you're in the clouds above the sea
I come undone, I am scum, love your son
You've gotta love your son
You've gotta love your son
Love your son, I am scum
I am scum
I am scum
I am scum

Not sure how sorry I feel for Robbie Williams lol -
but sad to see people not as happy as they might be / ought to be / should be

As "Madonna" says ....

"I wonder if there's something wrong with me- but then I think - it's more just something that I need help with - so that I can feel better."

 

[krisbarry]

Its quite interesting how this thread popped up out of the depths of depression, in such a horrid few weeks on the market. I forgot I even started this thread till it surfaced again.

Now I would feel that over 50% of traders/investors are suffering a little situational depression from the current market. Thats is to be expected, and very normal.

The strange thing about depression is the misconception of it, and how it can strike in times of despair or completely out of the blue.

I am learning about trigger points for depression, some of which I will list below. These things I try and avoid or minimize, and I know they trigger episodes of depression that can last for days/weeks/months at a time.

- Not enough sleep (late nights)
- Too much socialising (not enough time alone)
- Too much alcohol
- Stressful events
- Working to much
- Back to back negative events or setbacks
- negative self talk
- comparing levels of wealth/career/materalistic possessions etc
- Saying yes to people - too much, too often
- Being around negative people
- keeping up with others
- Over scheduling/ over comitting
- Too much debt
- Over-spending

 

[Wysiwyg]

Sources......from what I see there are two sources of depression.Internal and external.
The internal source is i.m.o. from the subconscious , negative self talk and the assosciated poor diet/exercise .For example first thoughts when waking up is...I want to stay in bed, what will I do today, I`m tired, not hungry, have I got enough money and many more that I don`t want to depress anyone with.These thoughts can be changed ,switched or substituted for more positive healthy thoughts.Help is needed in understanding the workings of mind so the source is found and countered.Easier said than done because everyone learns at a different pace.

The external source is the one that I can`t deal with mainly because it is out of my control.The people (yes fellow humans) that are suppressive.We do it to each other and it is a tit for tat,dominance and submission or beat the other person down situation.Ego related in by suppressing another individual one gets a feeling of "winning" ,of control and of assumed safety in life.Some even get lauded by their peers for beating someone down.

These suppressive people are the ones who bring depression on.Examples of suppressive people are the `type` that hate skin colour, that hate skinny kids, that hate fat people, that hate red heads, that hate foreigners, that hate another footy club supporter, that hate you looking at them, that hate anything you say, that hate babies crying, that hate women, that hate men, that hate religion, that hate work, that hate you and the list goes on.The victims sooner or later become depressed.This dis-ease is worldwide from presidents to preachers.It is a dis-ease of mind.

So as you can see I think that the external source of depression is more common in everyones lives and we all do it to greater or lesser degrees.



*please note that the word hate is substituted for dislike,don`t like,beat up and put down.

 

[Flying Fish]

Its quite interesting how this thread popped up out of the depths of depression, in such a horrid few weeks on the market. I forgot I even started this thread till it surfaced again.

Now I would feel that over 50% of traders/investors are suffering a little situational depression from the current market. Thats is to be expected, and very normal.

The strange thing about depression is the misconception of it, and how it can strike in times of despair or completely out of the blue.

I am learning about trigger points for depression, some of which I will list below. These things I try and avoid or minimize, and I know they trigger episodes of depression that can last for days/weeks/months at a time.

- Not enough sleep (late nights)
- Too much socialising (not enough time alone)
- Too much alcohol
- Stressful events
- Working to much
- Back to back negative events or setbacks
- negative self talk
- comparing levels of wealth/career/materalistic possessions etc
- Saying yes to people - too much, too often
- Being around negative people
- keeping up with others
- Over scheduling/ over comitting
- Too much debt
- Over-spending

Material wise yes. What would happen if someone close to you killed themself for no reason?

 

[cuttlefish]

Sources......from what I see there are two sources of depression.Internal and external.
The internal source is i.m.o. from the subconscious , negative self talk and the assosciated poor diet/exercise .For example first thoughts when waking up is...I want to stay in bed, what will I do today, I`m tired, not hungry, have I got enough money and many more that I don`t want to depress anyone with.These thoughts can be changed ,switched or substituted for more positive healthy thoughts.Help is needed in understanding the workings of mind so the source is found and countered.Easier said than done because everyone learns at a different pace.

Wysiwyg - to some extent I see these thoughts/behaviours as the symptoms rather than the source of depression, and yes treating the symptoms can help in reducing the further damage that could result from not addressing them (e.g. suicide/self harm, relationship breakup(s), loss of income/assets, inflicting harm on others etc. all of which would only further exacerbate the depressive state) - however the initial cause(s) of the depression condition are often complex - sometimes even if it seems straightforward to outsiders.

For example health problems, relationship breakup, loss of a loved one, other trauma (accident, assault etc.) might seem like obvious causes but it can still be complex for the individual concerned, and the ramifications of these sorts of events vary from individual to individual depending on their own life history, their own expectations of themselves, of others and of life in general, and other life history factors including a history of other adverse events or depression.

 

[2020hindsight]

material wise yes. what would happen if someone close to you killed themself for no reason?

FF If I could just add my agreement with Bushman -

To all who have shared their painful memories so eloquently and with such fortitude, I admire your courage .....Bushman

and maybe yet another verse of amateur poetry ... (and hoping it's not an insult)

Sometimes a man or woman has to search some tracks alone
praps find some missing pieces of some play,
despite the senses numbing from the pain of things unknown
to face another jigsaw-ridden day.

Sometimes a deed illogical can play on loved one's minds
if only they had waited 'stead of acted
as Newton said of bodies and the friendly force that binds
for every act, another is reacted.

 

[Sprinter79]

I might add my experiences here, as both someone who has experienced depression, and someone who lives with someone with significant depression, does that make sense :

A bit of background, our parents seperated when I was 17 and my brother was 12. I was going into Uni, and he was going into high school. The first night dad spent away was Christmas eve. Bad timing........ oooo yeah.

My brother developed problems before I did, but that was possibly because he had me for a father figure, and I sucked at it.

I'm 28 now, and the hardest part when dealing with his depression is trying to talk logically to someone who isn't thinking logically. Even after 10 years of trying to help, sometimes I just beat my head up against a brick wall. I can't win no matter what.

I can't really offer much advice to help those who live with those with depression, sometimes just listening to them vent is the best thing to do.. don't offer advice, or tell them they're wrong, just listen.

As for my own battles, my response to my parent's split was to develop Chronic Fatigue Syndrome when I was 19, and half way through my degree. I was also an elite level sprinter, so the study, the stress and all the other crap just built up and pushed me over the edge. Without going into too much detail, CFS and depression are very closely linked.

Anyhoo, i've dealt with my own demons as well as trying to help my brother out over the years, and I've always had the CFS in the background. The clinical treatment for CFS is anti-depressants, and I've found lexapro to be the best. Zoloft left me like a zombie, and another one, i can't remember its name, made me put on weight.

I can atest to the exercise points already raised. Going from a highly active elite level athlete to being bed riden was the most depressing thing of all. Once i could get out and run again that was great, but I've never been able to return to my pre CFS levels.

I've been getting pretty good at picking my lows with the CFS, and that leads to a low in my moods 3-4 days after i first identify it. My workplace is pretty good, and supportive, so I can work from home when I need to. If it gets too bad, I take a day off and sleep.

I apologise if it hasn't made too much sense, but my bro's having a pretty bad night, and I'm dead tired, but I'm trying to make sure he's safe for the night. I've written this over a few hours now. I might tidy it up in the morning.

 

[2020hindsight]

I was also an elite level sprinter, so the study, the stress and all the other crap just built up and pushed me over the edge. Without going into too much detail, CFS and depression are very closely linked....

I can atest to the exercise points already raised. Going from a highly active elite level athlete to being bed riden was the most depressing thing of all. Once i could get out and run again that was great, but I've never been able to return to my pre CFS levels.
...
I apologise if it hasn't made too much sense..

No need for any apologies m8 -
Here's Shakespeare again - you at least qualify for the "express" bit - so you're ahead of most of us here.

What a piece of work is a man! how noble in reason!
how infinite in faculty! in form and moving how
express and admirable!

that man can be the youthful record holder
who makes most dust as up the straight he tearest
perhaps medals are more meaningful and golder
when sportsmen rate as brothers best and fairest

and praps as legs need oil and heads get older
its hard (three legged race) to beat a mare
praps sometimes carry brothers on your shoulder
you can wear these 'minor' medals - shoulders square. !

again - apologies if this trivialises your predicament - anyway
Sounds like you also qualify for the "best and fairest"

PS any sprinting or sporting thing is obviously (presumably) a mind game at the best of times (and presumably more so at the worst of times ?) . I wouldn't know - I can never see the winners, because I'm lost in the crowd of also-rans

 

[Sprinter79]

Hahaah, that is brilliant mate, brilliant.

Made my morning

Cheers!

 

[Bluesky]

Excellent thread guys.

 

[Julia]

Sprinter, thank you for a really interesting post. Psychologists and physiologists have for years been suggesting a link between CFS and depression but there seems to have been a marked resistance amongst CFS sufferers to accept this connection.

I do wish you all the best. Good onya.

Julia

 

[Sprinter79]

Sprinter, thank you for a really interesting post. Psychologists and physiologists have for years been suggesting a link between CFS and depression but there seems to have been a marked resistance amongst CFS sufferers to accept this connection.

I do wish you all the best. Good onya.

Julia

Thanks Julia for the kind words

I personally think the resistance from the sufferers point of view is to do with the stigma associated with depression. There is a massive stigma with CFS, and after having dealt with that, the last thing these people need is have to fight through another stereotype.

Over the years, and I've had CFS for 10 years now, I'm always thinking which came first... Was I depressed cause of all the family **** going down, and it presented with a physical breakdown as opposed to a mental one, OR, did i get depressed because I could no longer do what I could do before I got sick?

Its hard to explain to people what it's like. I was a highly active 19 year old, I'd just won WA's version of the Stawell Gift and was quite successful at uni. I had a pretty decent social life, but it all came crashing down for whatever reason. And then for people to say its all in your head, you're making it up for attention is very hard to take. It's little wonder that there is that resistance to the link.

Maybe its because I'm an exercise physiologist that I'm more able to accept the link?

 

[chops_a_must]

Top quality post Chops.

One particular item that stands out to me is being able to recognise the symptoms again when they present themselves. To me its like being a place that you didn't like...at all, and you'll never forget the experience.

Having suffered severe clinical depression in the past i can relate somewhat, however i do realise that your case seems more severe than anything i experienced for sure. Interesting too what you say about the physical side of it, as i was nearly cripled by the back pain associated.

Thanks so much for the empathy, and please accept mine in return.

I don't mean to be preachy, but I think human touch is the most underestimated form of healing. I would hazard a guess, and you dont have to say yes or no, but the pain was probably in the upper of the middle back and upper back leading to soulders and neck.

If you are still having dips into depression, try actually getting some physical work done. After all, you are in the land that specialises in this!! Acupuncture is fantastic for these treatments! Even when clients present to me in a "depressed" state (I wont write that of course), I generally do gentle but effective forms of massage on their shoulders, upper back and neck. It's often enough to start them progressing.

Another thing you can do when feeling this way ( I use my massage table). Is to lie on a bed, or a table with your arms outstretched over the ends. It forces your slumped shoulders back, opens your chest and takes the pressure off your upper back.

Hope this has been of some help.

Cheers,
Chops.

 

[2020hindsight]

Acupuncture is fantastic for these treatments!

and whatever else you can say about acupuncture, you can't say it's pointless