Deceptive Terrorism Support

Rafa said:

Protest what exactly Analyst....
1. Hizbollah not pulling out to the Litani River.... Last I checked, Hisbollah are funded by Syria and Iran... Lebanon haven't the army or the resources to stop them!
2. No agreement on prisoner swap... two soldiers vs hunders of civilians being held in israeli jails without charge! hmmm...
3. Or the sending of Lebanon back 50 years, 350 dead and 1500 wounded for no fault of their own...

Analyst... i've read your posts in this thread.... you are a joke... stick to posting about stocks...

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Thanks and may hezzabollah bless you with a rocket

Rafa said:

tho hang on a sec... i've seen your posts on GTP.... enuf said!!!

PS: For the record, i am fully symathetic to plight of Israel... but what they are doing to Lebanon is plain wrong, and will not solve anything... They are blowing up civilians when the real problem is Syria and Iran...!

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Thanks and may hezzabollah bless you with a big rocket up your..........trading account

Your welcome...

PS: when you quoted me, you stuffed up and inserted your comments within the quote... please ammend if you can... thanks...

Rafa said:

PS: when you quoted me, you stuffed up and inserted your comments within the quote... please ammend if you can... thanks...

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Amended.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20876,19910623-7583,00.html

Mark Steyn: If only they had refused to indulge Arafat
The myth that the Muslim world's problems are directly linked to the Palestinian question has gone up in flames, argues Mark Steyn
July 26, 2006

uly 26, 2006
A FEW years back, when folks talked airily about "the Middle East peace process" and "a two-state solution", I used to say that the trouble was the Palestinians saw a two-state solution as an interim stage en route to a one-state solution. I underestimated Islamist depravity. As we now see in Gaza and southern Lebanon, any two-state solution would be an interim stage en route to a no-state solution.

In one of the most admirably straightforward of Islamist declarations, Hussein Massawi, the Hezbollah leader behind the slaughter of US and French forces 20 years ago, put it this way: "We are not fighting so that you will offer us something. We are fighting to eliminate you."

Swell. But suppose he got his way, what then? Suppose every last Jew in Israel were dead or fled, what would rise in place of the Zionist entity? It would be something like the Hamas-Hezbollah terror squats in Gaza and Lebanon writ large. Hamas won a landslide in the Palestinian elections, and Hezbollah similarly won formal control of key Lebanese cabinet ministries. But they're not Mussolini: they have no interest in making the trains run on time. And, to be honest, who can blame them?

If you're a big-time terrorist mastermind, it's frankly a bit of a bore to find yourself deputy under-secretary at the ministry of pensions, particularly when you're no good at it, and no matter how lavishly the European Union throws money at you, there never seems to be any in the kitty when it comes to making the payroll. So, like a business that has over-diversified, Hamas and Hezbollah retreated to their core activity: Jew-killing.

In Causeries du Lundi, Charles-Augustin Sainte-Beuve recalls a Parisian dramatist watching the revolutionary mob rampaging through the street below and beaming: "See my pageant passing!" That's how opportunist Arabs and indulgent Europeans looked on the intifada and the terrorists and the schoolgirl suicide bombers: as a kind of uber-authentic piece of performance art with which to torment the Jews and the Americans. They never paused to ask themselves: Hey, what if it doesn't stop there?

Well, about 30 years too late, they're asking it now. For the first quarter-century of Israel's existence, the Arab states fought more or less conventional wars against the Zionists and kept losing. So then they figured it was easier to anoint a terrorist movement and in 1974 declared Yasser Arafat's Palestine Liberation Organisation to be the "sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people", which is quite a claim for an organisation then barely a decade old. Amazingly, the Arab League persuaded the UN, the EU, Bill Clinton and everyone else to go along with it and to treat the old monster as a head of state who lacked only a state to head.

It's true that many nationalist movements have found it convenient to adopt the guise of terrorists.

But, as the Palestinian movement descended from airline hijackings to the intifada to self-detonating in pizza parlours, it never occurred to its glamorous patrons to wonder if maybe this was, in fact, a terrorist movement conveniently adopting the guise of nationalism.

In 1971, in the lobby of the Cairo Sheraton, Palestinian terrorists shot Wasfi al-Tal, the prime minister of Jordan, at point-blank range. As he fell to the floor dying, one of his killers began drinking the blood gushing from his wounds. Doesn't that strike you as a little, um, overwrought? Three decades later, when bombs went off in Bali, killing hundreds of tourists plus local waiters and barmen, Bruce Haigh, a former Aussie diplomat in Indonesia, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, had no doubt where to put the blame. As he told Australia's Nine Network: "The root cause of this issue has been America's backing of Israel on Palestine."

Suppose this were true: that terrorists blew up Australian honeymooners and Scandinavian stoners in Balinese nightclubs because of "the Palestinian question". Doesn't this suggest that these people are, at a certain level, nuts? After all, there are plenty of Irish Republican Army sympathisers across the world (try making the Ulster Unionist case in a Boston bar), yet they never thought to protest against British rule in Northern Ireland by blowing up, say, German tourists in Thailand.

Yet the more the thin skein of Palestinian grievance was stretched to justify atrocities halfway around the world, the more the Arab League big-shot emirs and EU foreign ministers looked down from their windows and cooed, "See my parade passing!"

They've now belatedly realised they're at that stage in the creature feature where the monster has mutated into something bigger and crazier. Until the remarkably kinda-robust statement by the Group of Eight and the unprecedented denunciation of Hezbollah by the Arab League, the rule in any conflict in which Israel is involved - Israel v PLO, Israel v Lebanon, Israel v (Your Team Here) - is that the Jews are to blame. But Saudi-Egyptian-Jordanian opportunism on Palestine has caught up with them: it has finally dawned on them that a strategy of consciously avoiding resolution of the Palestinian question has helped deliver Gaza and Lebanon and Syria into the hands of a regime that's a far bigger threat to the Arab world than the Zionist entity.

Cairo and co grew so accustomed to whining about the Palestinian pseudo-crisis decade in, decade out, that it never occurred to them that they might face a real crisis one day: a Middle East dominated by an apocalyptic Iran and its local enforcers, in which Arab self-rule turns out to have been a mere interlude between the Ottoman sultans and the eternal eclipse of a Persian nuclear umbrella.

The Zionists got out of Gaza and it's now Talibanistan redux. The Zionists got out of Lebanon and the most powerful force in the country (with an ever-growing demographic advantage) are Iran's Shia enforcers. There haven't been any Zionists anywhere near Damascus in 60 years and Syria is in effect Iran's first Sunni Arab prison bitch. For the other regimes in the region, Gaza, Lebanon and Syria are dead states that have risen as vampires.

Meanwhile, Kofi Annan in a remarkable display of urgency (at least when compared with Sudan, Rwanda, Congo and others) is proposing apropos Israel and Hezbollah that UN peacekeepers go in to keep the peace not between two sovereign states but between a sovereign state and a usurper terrorist gang. Contemptible as he is, the secretary-general shows a shrewd understanding of the way the world is heading: already, non-state actors have more sophisticated rocketry than many EU nations; and if Iran has its way, its proxies will be implied nuclear powers. Maybe we should put them on the UN Security Council.

So, what is in reality Israel's first non-Arab war is a glimpse of the world the day after tomorrow: the EU and the Arab League won't quite spell it out but, to modify that Le Monde headline, they are all Jews now.

Mark Steyn, a Canadian and US columnist, is a regular contributor to The Australian's opinion page. He will address the Centre for Independent Studies in Sydney on August 14 and the Institute of Public Affairs in Melbourne on August 17.

This is exactly why the protestors did not denounce Hezzabollah here in Australia and this is the real danger.

Anyone seen these guys?????

www.nkusa.org/

they barely rate a mention on our news coverage.....yet they r well known in many parts of the world......they will probably get labelled anti-semetic

the_godfather4 said:

Anyone seen these guys?????

www.nkusa.org/

they barely rate a mention on our news coverage.....yet they r well known in many parts of the world......they will probably get labelled anti-semetic

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Important topic this.

Not all Jews are zionists. And not all zionists are Jews. There are Christian Zionists as well.... they are the ones with the red button

wayneL said:

Important topic this.

Not all Jews are zionists. And not all zionists are Jews. There are Christian Zionists as well.... they are the ones with the red button

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Not all people are prejudiced and not all prejudiced are wrong

Yes an interesting link. It appears all religions have their differences.
The other day Orthodox and (straight ) jews were all bonded together supporting Israel in its action of late. So it appears those orthodox jews don`t all agree unlike the zionists.

Wayne I would like to hear more about the Cristian zionists. I am truly interested. I`m not aware of any in Australia, but what about the US?

Snake Pliskin said:

Not all people are prejudiced and not all prejudiced are wrong

Yes an interesting link. It appears all religions have their differences.
The other day Orthodox and (straight ) jews were all bonded together supporting Israel in its action of late. So it appears those orthodox jews don`t all agree unlike the zionists.

Wayne I would like to hear more about the Cristian zionists. I am truly interested. I`m not aware of any in Australia, but what about the US?

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism

... and more here http://www.google.com.au/search?cli...q=christian+zionists&meta=&btnG=Google+Search

http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~dhershkowitz/

In 1831 Ottoman rule was interrupted by Muhammad 'Ali, who occupied Palestine and Syria until 1840. A new era began which was characterized by political and social reform aimed at centralizing control of the country, modernizing the administration and granting equal rights to non-Muslim minorities. The country was opened for the first time to widespread political, cultural and economic activity by the European powers. These new developments continued after the Ottoman rule was resumed in 1840-41. During the second half of the nineteenth century direct Ottoman control was gradually consolidated in all parts of the country, Bedouin attacks were checked, general security increased, the oppression of the urban population was eased to a considerable extent, and the involvement of the European powers expanded greatly. These developments brought about certain improvements in the country's economy and in the conditions of the inhabitants.

Jews of the Holy Land in the 19th Century
The Jews were concentrated mainly in the four "Holy Cities": Jerusalem, Safed, Tiberias and Hebron. By and large, the Jews were regarded as second-class citizens of the Ottoman Empire. They encountered legal discrimination at every turn, and evidence given by them was not recognized by the courts. Jews were debarred from attaining high government office. They were subject to daily mockery and scorn, were forbidden to ride camels or horses within the city limits, and were obliged to make way for Moslems. Their persons and possessions were unprotected by law and prone to constant abuse (without any possibility of appealing to the courts of justice). M. Reisher, who lived in Jerusalem, writes in 1866:

"When a Jew walked among them in the market, one would throw a stone at him in order to kill him, another would pull his beard, and a third his ear-lock, yet another spit on his face, and he became a symbol of abuse".

Although their principal source of income was the "Haluka" (financial support from abroad), heavy taxes were imposed on them by the Turkish authorities. Subsequent to the Crimean War (1853-1854), there was a gradual improvement in the predicament of the Jews, mainly as the result of the protection granted them by the consuls in certain cases. In any event, they continued to be second-class citizens reliant on the clemency of the ruling authorities and the Moslem population. From the 1840's the Jewish community grew considerably through new waves of immigrants, mainly from Russia. In the 1880's the Jewish population was further augmented by refugees and agricultural settlements which were founded in many parts of the country. Jewish urban centers (particularly in Jerusalem, Jaffa and Haifa), developed as well.

from The Australian...

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,19925802-601,00.html

Greg Sheridan: Bad move by Israel
We should lament the probable destruction of the brightest star on the Middle East horizon, writes Foreign editor Greg Sheridan
July 27, 2006

THE missing voice in all the words written and spoken about the war in the Middle East is the Lebanese voice.

Australian coverage of Lebanon has concentrated on our own citizens, which is entirely natural. There can be no criticism of Lebanese Australians who, in deep distress, urged the Government to get them out of the war and home as quickly as possible. If you doubt that, just think how you would feel if it was your mother, your wife, your child trapped in a war.

Similarly, there were many scenes of Lebanese Australians returning via Sydney airport and their first response was "thank God for Australia" or "thank you, Australia".

This is a sentiment we should all feel with some humility, simple gratitude at living in a peaceful and prosperous country. The Howard Government seems to have acted as quickly as possible to help distressed Australians and our diplomats did good work in exceptionally difficult circumstances.

Meanwhile, the Hezbollah spokesmen we occasionally see in threatening sound bites are not the whole of Lebanon, or even the main Lebanon.

Like anyone who grew up in Sydney's western suburbs, I had loads of Lebanese friends at school. Lebanese families I knew were fecund and rambunctious and, above all, cooked magnificent food. There was always a largeness and a grand hospitality about them, which was irresistible.

Lebanon has been a land of many tragedies but there was another side to it. Beirut was for many years the Paris of the Middle East. More recently, both before and after the departure last year of Syrian forces, Beirut had been reborn, to some extent rebuilt by prime minister Rafik Hariri.

It was the most cosmopolitan, democratic, livable and successful Arab society in the Middle East. The Cedar Revolution last year led to the departure of the Syrians. This was a wonderful human triumph, participated in by Lebanese Christians as well as Muslims. But it also had a huge political import. In Washington recently, several analysts told me their most fervent hope was that one day Iraq would come to resemble Lebanon: a bit of chaos, a bit of disorder, a few militias with too many weapons, but the energy of the street, the instinct of the trader, the growing national pride pulling it through to something better.

In other words, the success of Lebanon was the brightest star on the Middle East horizon.

Lebanon, before the recent campaign, was still a weak state but an increasingly successful society. We all had a stake in Lebanese success.

Lebanon is exceptionally complex, even by Middle East standards. At the time of independence in the 1940s, it was a majority Christian society. Today the percentage of Christians has been reduced to about one-third. Somewhat more than this percentage are Shiites, the next biggest group is Sunnis and then the Druze.

The decline of the Lebanese Christian community is part of the tragic and profound decline of Christian communities all across the Middle East, a historic tragedy of epochal proportions, mourned in some detail in the English travel writer William Dalrymple's absorbing book From the Holy Mountain, a journey among the Christians of the Middle East.

But Lebanese Christians were still playing their part, with their countrymen of other religions, in the re-creation of a new and attractive Beirut and Lebanon during the past few years.

A decade ago, a colleague of mine at The Australian, Daizy Mir, a Lebanese Australian of Christian background, made a magnificent and multi-award winning documentary, Lebanon, Imprisoned Splendour. The imprisonment referred to the activities of foreign nations that used Lebanon as a place to wage their proxy wars. But the genius of the film lay in the way it absorbed and accepted Lebanon's suffering in the civil war in particular, and yet transcended this by portraying the other Lebanon.

The film's narrative mechanism was to use the story of Mir's life and the way she worked out her identity as an Australian born in Lebanon who had at first distanced herself from it, but then in young adulthood found a new and unexpected love of Lebanon.

The film showed some of Lebanon's diversity, the scene of some of the oldest continuous human civilisation we know: the town of Byblos, from which the Bible derives its name, the town of Cana, site of Jesus Christ's first miracle. It also showed contemporary Lebanon, the Beirut of cosmopolitanism and sophistication, of an intoxicating night-life, of Mediterranean resorts and spectacular mountains.

Mir was last in Lebanon two years ago and recalls: "It was wonderful to drive around the beautiful highways, not pockmarked any more, to enjoy the cafes and night-life, the people so nice and so friendly, the place just so alive with people from all over the world." In the past few years, U2, Michael Jackson, Placido Domingo and countless other stars have performed in Lebanon. That's a pretty distinctive feature in the Arab world.

Now Mir is devastated by what's happening in Lebanon: "Israel is fighting a war against Syria and Iran and it's using Lebanese territory. This kind of tactic has never worked. All it's going to do is make things worse. It's not going to get rid of Hezbollah. The people in control (of Hezbollah) know how to move around and they've set this up."

The distress that Mir feels is something we should all feel. The probable destruction of the modern Lebanese political development is a profound loss for the Middle East.

None of this remotely excuses Hezbollah, which bears the lion's share of the blame for this situation. Its leaders probably calculated on and wanted tough Israeli action for a multiplicity of political and strategic reasons.

But in my view Israel has imposed too high a price on Lebanon for too uncertain an end. After two weeks it has captured or killed very few Hezbollah guerillas. It is extremely unlikely that Israel will succeed in getting an international military force not only on its own border but also on the Syria-Lebanon border to prevent Syria resupplying Hezbollah.

Israel certainly has the right to defend itself. But the gains from its actions are very uncertain, while the cost is certain. And enormous.

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Its quite clear that there is only one victim of this war between Syria/Iran and Israel.... and that is Lebanon and its people!

Israel is the real victim as they did not draw first blood......how many times must the blood of the Jews be drawn before they may retaliate? Your own country and its allies have not condenmed Israel so i hope that tells you something......like for instance Rafa, God3 and WayneL that you are traitors to your country and its armed forces and think you should go live in Syria, Iran or Lebonon and dont come back as you are a high treason risk and should be placed on the ASIO security warning list.

Rafa said:

from The Australian...

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,19925802-601,00.html



Its quite clear that there is only one victim of this war between Syria/Iran and Israel.... and that is Lebanon and its people!

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And that would be the Lebanese christians and some of the islamic populace

As far as Hezbollah goes, they are getting a good bit of woopass at the moment.

Snake Pliskin said:

As far as Hezbollah goes, they are getting a good bit of woopass at the moment.

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Hezboullah derserve all the whoop assing it can get... so do Iran and Syria...


Analyst... I have said all along that Israel targetting the general populace of Lebanon is wrong... I have also maintained all along the complete support for Israel DISMEMBERING the Syrian and Iranian govts... That would in fact decapitate Hezbullah and Hamas...

I also believe this is broadly in line with our Govt response...

So, please retract your statement... In my opinion, your warmongering ways, and your devisive posts are more a threat to national security than my views....

(please read my posts in WW3, and other treads... before making statements such as the one you made...)

TheAnalyst said:

Israel is the real victim as they did not draw first blood......how many times must the blood of the Jews be drawn before they may retaliate? Your own country and its allies have not condenmed Israel so i hope that tells you something......like for instance Rafa, God3 and WayneL that you are traitors to your country and its armed forces and think you should go live in Syria, Iran or Lebonon and dont come back as you are a high treason risk and should be placed on the ASIO security warning list.

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What is ASIO going to charge them with? An opinion?

Analyst, it is ok in society, as you said before, to be able to opine without having your head cut off. It`s the same here.

Taking the war to Iran and Syria does not mean that innocent people are not going to pay the price,if anything those countries would pay a higher price in terms of innocents lives than in Lebanon.The Lebanese in fact allowed the hesbollah to not only hide among them but supported them as well in Iran wonder how many people actually agree with the moron and his long name,in Syria people have to be organized to demonstrate wonder how many would actually demonstrate if they really had a choice.
I know this post is neither here or there,but it seems to me the more you keep people ignorant the easier it is to manipulate them.
Maybe the UN should work on an education bomb,one you could drop into these countries as books. :

Rafa said:

Hezboullah derserve all the whoop assing it can get... so do Iran and Syria...


Analyst... I have said all along that Israel targetting the general populace of Lebanon is wrong... I have also maintained all along the complete support for Israel DISMEMBERING the Syrian and Iranian govts... That would in fact decapitate Hezbullah and Hamas...

I also believe this is broadly in line with our Govt response...

So, please retract your statement... In my opinion, your warmongering ways, and your devisive posts are more a threat to national security than my views....

(please read my posts in WW3, and other treads... before making statements such as the one you made...)

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Ok Rafa....I take back my comments and state you are one of us on the allies side and no traitor.....but the other two are highly suspicious individuals.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/World/DFAT-wont-evacuate-child-brides/2006/07/27/1153816310516.html


DFAT 'won't evacuate child brides'

July 27, 2006 - 4:50PM


Some Australian Lebanese men have stayed behind in war-ravaged Beirut after officials refused to evacuate their teenage "child brides".

A spokesman for the immigration department (DIMA) told AAP some dual passport holders had turned up at evacuation points with wives younger than 18 - the legal age for marriage in Australia.

The men were told by Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFAT) officers that while such marriages were legal in some societies, they were not recognised in Australia and no spouse visa could be issued.

"We are aware there have been a number of cases," an immigration department spokeswoman told AAP.

"We have to look at factors such as whether the marriage is lawful under Australian law and also the country in which it took place.

"(We also) look at whether there has been real consent when the marriage was entered into."

DFAT would not comment on specific cases.

However, it is understood at least one man demanded that not only his underage bride be evacuated back to Australia, but also a young baby.

He is said to have caused a scene when told his family would not be evacuated, warning he would take his gripe to the media.

DFAT said it was important people were familiar with the guidelines relating to evacuation.

"While spouses and dependant children of Australian citizens and permanent residents must have valid visas prior to arrival in Australia, the Australian government does not require that their visas be approved prior to evacuation from Lebanon," a DFAT spokesman said.

"(However) the authorities of receiving countries, notably Turkey, may require them.

"Where possible DIMA will seek to commence application processes prior to evacuation but decisions on applications can be made at a further point of evacuation outside Lebanon.

"It's in the interests of applicants to start the application process as soon as possible."

The government is no longer evacuating Australian passport holders from Lebanon, though Foreign Minister Alexander Downer has said it could begin doing so again if there was a need.

© 2006 AAP

TheAnalyst said:

Israel is the real victim as they did not draw first blood......how many times must the blood of the Jews be drawn before they may retaliate? Your own country and its allies have not condenmed Israel so i hope that tells you something......like for instance Rafa, God3 and WayneL that you are traitors to your country and its armed forces and think you should go live in Syria, Iran or Lebonon and dont come back as you are a high treason risk and should be placed on the ASIO security warning list.

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Why is having an opinion traitorous? We are talking about a conflict in a foreign nation. Australia in not involved and I have a different opinion about the belligerents to you. Traitor? Shear idiocy!!

Ah yes, but the first resort of the illogical and unintelligent; ad hominum attacks and accusations of treason.

There will be a job for you, if the brownshirts ever take over. Meanwhile, I remind you this is still a democracy.

Chill dude.

TheAnalyst said:

Ok Rafa....I take back my comments and state you are one of us on the allies side and no traitor.....but the other two are highly suspicious individuals.

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Who is God3?

Analyst, one more thing, look up the word XENOPHOBIC. That is if you know how to read.

And if you want to start potentially defamative rumours on a public forum because people do not agree with your opinions, then GROW UP.

Lucky for me, my self worth is not measured by what others think of me (and particulalry NOT U). I know who and what I am. Maybe its time for some self evaluation mate.

Anyone notice how Analysts posts no longer have ANYTHING to do with the theme of this thread.....its basically become a forum for him to air his racist/intolerant/xenophobic views.......Sad when you think about it......In a funny way, I kinda pity him.
Its 2006, not 1946.