Coronavirus vaccine news

[cynic]

You stated I "provided the proof that ivermectin works", which is false and was clearly elaborated in my reply.
HIV drugs prevent viral replication, and dozens of other drugs do as well. While Pfizer has scientific proof of efficacy based on intended use, ivermectin cannot yet make a valid claim to that effect.
As I said earlier, you have no basis for comparison, so unless you stump up with something my conversation with you on this point is again over.

That's because you did indeed, albeit unwittingly, provide such proof!

 

[basilio]

Surprise, surprise, surprise.

A month after it was clear it should have been announced Greg Hunt has brought bought the eligibility time for booster shots.
So the next question is. How the hell are we going to jab 16 million people in January/February given our past performance.?


Atagi has been going through a “constant review process” of international evidence, Greg Hunt says. The cohort will more than double to 7.5 million people eligible for boosters from 4 January when the period is reduced:

It’s no surprise we will be bringing forward the eligibility for the booster dose to four months as of 4 January. The planning behind that is that will open up a new cohort. Currently that means that we will go from about 3.2 million people who are eligible today to approximately 7.5 million who will be eligible as 4 January. That means that the cohort has expanded. It will be expanded again on the 31st of January to three months and that will take it out to 16 million Australians who will be eligible at that point in time and as we have said all along, eligibility is the beginning of access, it doesn’t mean that somebody is overdue the very day they become eligible.

These dates have been set out of an abundance of caution to give Australians early continued protection and the advice we have is that the protection as it is is very strong against severe illness, but what we’ll see is a much stronger protection against transmission.

 

[Belli]

How the hell are we going to jab 16 million people in January/February given our past performance.?

Get Australia Post to deliver DIY injecting kits.

 

[basilio]

Get Australia Post to deliver DIY injecting kits.

Yeaah. But would they ever arrive in time ??

 

[Belli]

Yeaah. But would they ever arrive in time ??

Good point. Probably deliver to the same address but in a different State.

Have to admit I am over the claim by Governments about vaccination rates. It's all based on eligible population which means a large swathe may remain unvaccinated and so vulnerable. And saying 95% are vaccinated is somewhat misleading as that is overall and various regions may not be at that point.

Link to vaccination rates by LGA below.

https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2021/12/covid-19-vaccination-local-government-area-lga-20-december-2021.xlsx

 

[sptrawler]

If nasal spays prove effective, maybe crop dusters and aerial firefighting planes could be used.
If it has to be an injection, possibly enrol the assistance of the mormons and jehovas witnesses and do a door to door roll out?

 

[moXJO]

They should have just sent a box of tissues through the post.

Good point. Probably deliver to the same address but in a different State.

Have to admit I am over the claim by Governments about vaccination rates. It's all based on eligible population which means a large swathe may remain unvaccinated and so vulnerable. And saying 95% are vaccinated is somewhat misleading as that is overall and various regions may not be at that point.

Link to vaccination rates by LGA below.

https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2021/12/covid-19-vaccination-local-government-area-lga-20-december-2021.xlsx

Putting a scare out like this is also misleading.
Under a certain age the risks are minute.
Smells like political fckery when you semi expand.

 

[moXJO]

Nsw didn't seem to care that much. Noticed the pump on social media from the usual political bed wetters and now we are back to the covid doom cycle. Obviously you don't want hospitals filling up. But you also don't want to delay this past the summer.

Hopefully enough cases to spread around and get to the endemic stage sooner.

 

[rederob]

Nsw didn't seem to care that much. Noticed the pump on social media from the usual political bed wetters and now we are back to the covid doom cycle. Obviously you don't want hospitals filling up. But you also don't want to delay this past the summer.

Hopefully enough cases to spread around and get to the endemic stage sooner.

I was listening to business owners in Newcastle being interviewed today. While Omicron may have had an effect on patronage, quite a number of businesses did not have enough staff to open because they were now in isolation/quarantine. That pattern will spread across Australia in coming weeks.

 

[moXJO]

I was listening to business owners in Newcastle being interviewed today. While Omicron may have had an effect on patronage, quite a number of businesses did not have enough staff to open because they were now in isolation/quarantine. That pattern will spread across Australia in coming weeks.

Shortage of stock, everyone already bought during lockdown and delivery has probably had a bigger effect. Most people I know are going back to work asap.


As much as it sucks, getting to the end stage of this with Omicron is probably where we want to be.

This idea that we need to "absolutely not catch it" isn't right imo.
Obviously we need to constantly keep checking data. But waves of flu is actually what primes your immune system.

Omicron seems to be near enough to the 'goldilocks variant' we want. Let's see where nsw data leads us to over the next month.

 

[basilio]

Shortage of stock, everyone already bought during lockdown and delivery has probably had a bigger effect. Most people I know are going back to work asap.


As much as it sucks, getting to the end stage of this with Omicron is probably where we want to be.

This idea that we need to "absolutely not catch it" isn't right imo.
Obviously we need to constantly keep checking data. But waves of flu is actually what primes your immune system.

Omicron seems to be near enough to the 'goldilocks variant' we want. Let's see where nsw data leads us to over the next month.

Really ? Goldilocks variant ? Let it rip ?
It's already clear that the infectiousness of Omicron threatens to overun our health system. 1% serious problems with 1 million people is still way more than 5% serious with 50k . In any case there still isn't enough knowledge about how Omicron will turn out to justify such a view.

On top of that however is the reality of long COVID. A significant number of people don't simply have a nasty flu and then get back to mormal. There are long term health problems that undermine their situation individually and society as a whole.

Don’t dismiss Omicron as ‘mild’. Take it from a Covid long-hauler​

JD Davids


At least 10% of those who survive any Covid infection – whether asymptomatic or severe – will develop long Covid

Many people describe a ‘mild’ case of Covid as the most sick they have ever been in their lives. Photograph: Susana Vera/Reuters
Thu 23 Dec 2021 22.24 AEDT
Last modified on Fri 24 Dec 2021 15.57 AEDT

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/23/omicron-covid-19-long-hauler#comments
227
On Wednesday, the New York Times – and others – published what appeared to be good news. “Omicron infections seem to be milder, three research teams report” read the headline. Many readers must have been relieved to see this news, especially with cases sky-rocketing even as the holiday season is in full swing.

As someone living with post-viral conditions exacerbated by Long Covid, I read the story carefully. I noted the preliminary nature of the data from South Africa, Scotland and England, and the prediction that the greater infectiousness of Omicron would still likely land many people in hospitals already strained to capacity.

But despite these caveats, I felt little relief or reassurance after reading the article. It contained no mention at all of Long Covid. Not one. This is not a benign oversight; it’s a fundamental and dangerous misread of our global predicament and the future that awaits us.


This anti-Covid pill changes everything. So why won’t it be available for all?


Read more
We’ve still got a lot to learn about Covid-19, including this new variant. But one thing we know for certain is that “mild Covid” can be debilitating and lead to long-term or permanent disease and disability.

We now know that at least 10-30% of those who survive any Covid infection (from asymptomatic or “mild”to severe) will go on to live with (and sometimes die from) long Covid – a long-term, lifelong, or even life-threatening or fatal, disabling chronic syndrome, the biological pathways of which are still largely unknown.

Don’t dismiss Omicron as ‘mild’. Take it from a Covid long-hauler | JD Davids

At least 10% of those who survive any Covid infection – whether asymptomatic or severe – will develop long Covid

www.theguardian.com

 

[rederob]

Why are the AR's so exponentially high compared to all other vaccine rollouts in our history?

I'm not pretending I know or have the answers, but I sure as hell don't like the numbers I am seeing in many aspects of this "pandemic".

I have moved my reply to @barney from @Craton's thread to here.
@Country Lad covered most of the relevant points I would have made, although I would have added post #816 as equally unhelpful and from the poisoned trough. Medical data on adverse effects have been widely reported in MSM and I found your post cherrypicked snippets out of context with the real world. On the other hand social media antivaxxers have constantly lied and misreported the data, almost universally failing the concept of causation.
With specific reference to your idea that "AR's (are) so exponentially high compared to all other vaccine rollouts in our history," what exactly is your basis for comparison?
Factors such as redness, soreness or swelling around the vaccination site can be recorded as adverse but they are not regarded as serious.
On the other hand, this recent independent study on adverse events concluded:

"In this real-world cohort, serious COVID-19 vaccine adverse effects were rare, and overall adverse effects were similar to industry and government reports. This independent evaluation enabled the comparison of adverse effects between vaccine manufacturers, noting that adverse effects were more common with mRNA-1273 compared with BNT162b2."​

​

Contrast the adverse events from vaccines against covid and in lay terms its a "no contest". Somehow there are people in social media who would have us believe that the millions of unvaccinated who die from covid or suffer severe post infection events are better off than those who are vaccinated. If you want to gamble with natural immunity from infection then the odds are extremely poor compared with infection after double vaxxing, so why anyone would advocate this pathway is a mystery.

 

[sptrawler]

They should have just sent a box of tissues through the post.

Putting a scare out like this is also misleading.
Under a certain age the risks are minute.
Smells like political fckery when you semi expand.

The Morrison government will be loving it, the media are being fed easy articles on the virus, so that suits the bone idle lot.
Meanwhile the papers are full of virus hyperbole and all the negative press against the Government has disappeared and Albo is getting no airplay, win/win for Morrison.

 

[barney]

although I would have added post #816 as equally unhelpful and from the poisoned trough.

and I found your post cherrypicked snippets out of context with the real world.

Guilty as charged Red. I admit I did cherry pick the data/news reports.

They were a couple of minutes from "the highwire" to try and make what I thought was a valid point. (The whole show goes for 2 hours and I'm pretty sure many would simply not take the time)

I also stated that Del Bigtree is an anti-vax advocate, in an attempt to be transparent.

What was I actually trying to point out in those 2 vids?

1) 2 months after the "vaccines" had been rolled out, virtually all MS media outlets were telling we the mass population that:

There had been NO serious adverse reactions and NO deaths caused by the shots. The footage I showed was from various medical practitioners including Pfizer representatives.

2) As of the other week, the first round of documents released after the FOIA request which was upheld by a US court showed:

1223 Deaths in the first 2 months of the vaccine roll out and a cumulative + 150,000 adverse reactions, and a large amount were serious.

So do we accept the above and sweep it under the carpet, or should we do some research into why MS media and Big Pharma find it necessary to lie to the general public, and only release important data if they are sued?

I accept that all the 1223 deaths may not have been caused by the vaccines, but given a large percentage of them occurred within 48 hours of receiving the shot, the correlation/ causation argument appears to be standing on shaky ground in this instance.

Assuming we all accept the above data from Pfizer, it makes the publicly available database from the CDC (VAERS) look like a horror movie.

The below chart is the current accumulated deaths post vax and the scary part is the incredibly high % of those unfortunate people died within 24-48 hours

ps And just to confirm to those unfamiliar with the data I am quoting, it has not been collected from some anti-vax site in an attempt to cause hysteria; It is from both the Pfizer Company direct, and the "Centre for Disease Control and Prevention" (CDC- US Government)

 

[Belli]

Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS)

VAERS is a warning system used to monitor events after vaccination.

www.cdc.gov

"VAERS reports alone generally cannot be used to determine if a vaccine caused or contributed to an adverse event or illness. Some reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental, or unverifiable. VAERS reports often lack contextual information, such as total vaccinations given or information on unvaccinated groups for comparison. Most reports to VAERS are voluntary, which means they may be subject to biases. Data from VAERS reports should always be interpreted with these limitations in mind."

May need to filter multiple reports of the same event.

Selected Adverse Events Reported after COVID-19 Vaccination

Rare instances of adverse events following COVID-19 vaccinations have been reported to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System.

www.cdc.gov

"Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. More than 485 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through December 13, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 10,483 reports of death (0.0022%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA clinicians review reports of death to VAERS including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records."

"As of December 8, 2021, more than 16.9 million doses of the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 vaccine have been given in the United States. CDC and FDA identified 57 confirmed reports of people who got the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 vaccine and later developed TTS.

CDC has also identified nine deaths that have been caused by or were directly attributed to TTS following J&J/Janssen COVID-19 vaccination."

There is more in the link provided.

 

[rederob]

1) 2 months after the "vaccines" had been rolled out, virtually all MS media outlets were telling we the mass population that:

There had been NO serious adverse reactions and NO deaths caused by the shots. The footage I showed was from various medical practitioners including Pfizer representatives.

Do you know what VAERS was showing then? And we have moved on since 2020 given 2022 starts next week!

2) As of the other week, the first round of documents released after the FOIA request which was upheld by a US court showed:

1223 Deaths in the first 2 months of the vaccine roll out and a cumulative + 150,000 adverse reactions, and a large amount were serious.

Again, what was causation showing?
The data on serious adverse events is unequivocal - they are rare

Assuming we all accept the above data from Pfizer, it makes the publicly available database from the CDC (VAERS) look like a horror movie.

You have not shown the number of deaths caused by vaccination, not that serious adverse events were other than rare.
Whereas covid deaths and serious illness data are the exact opposite.

The below chart is the current accumulated deaths post vax and the scary part is the incredibly high % of those unfortunate people died within 24-48 hours

Again, you have presented no causation evidence.
Here's data from Janssen to 9 December 2021:

I could not find data on Pfizer deaths, but so far in Australia there appear to be none from tens of millions of vaccinations.
An AFP fact-check said clinical research indicates no link between the Pfizer vaccine and fatalities.

ps And just to confirm to those unfamiliar with the data I am quoting, it has not been collected from some anti-vax site in an attempt to cause hysteria; It is from both the Pfizer Company direct, and the "Centre for Disease Control and Prevention" (CDC- US Government)

This is what the CDC say:

"Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem."​

​

(apologies to @Belli for overlap as I had this sitting as a draft for ages while trying to find reliable Pfizer death data)

The horror movie you mentioned relates to the millions of covid deaths principally amongst those unvaccinated, yet you seem to dwell on data that has not established causal linkages with vaccinations.

I don't understand what drives people to misrepresent data when so many nations have detailed information showing definitively that deaths due to covid vaccinations are rare. Australia's example relating to Pfizer's safety could not be clearer.

 

[Belli]

Australia's example relating to Pfizer's safety could not be clearer.

From TGA's Weekly Safety report of 23 December:

The likely rates per 100,000 doses are in Table 2 in the link below

COVID-19 vaccine weekly safety report - 23-12-2021

Information about the TGA's safety monitoring of COVID-19 vaccines.

www.tga.gov.au

 

[barney]

@Belli and @rederob

There is likely little point in getting into an argument over the data above. We have differing views on how to interpret the data. That is Statistics 101 in a nutshell.

With that in consideration, and call me weird, but I find it important to ask the question in regard to the data; Why over 5,000 people (out of a reported +20,000 deaths) have died within 48 hours of being vaccinated Should that not raise questions?

I agree, the ratio of deaths to vaccine injections is theoretically small, although we may have trouble convincing the Parents who have lost their children within a day or two of being jabbed, of the mathematical insignificance of such percentages!

Death is the final frontier of course ..... The Adverse reactions across the board have been exponential

For example, what about the increase in Myocarditis particularly in young Men/Pfizer since the vaccine roll out?? Fact/fiction/bad luck?

Again US (CDC) data ... I'm just the messenger. Make your own judgement.

 

[rederob]

@Belli and @rederob

There is likely little point in getting into an argument over the data above. We have differing views on how to interpret the data. That is Statistics 101 in a nutshell.

The data have been explained (not "interpreted") so are beyond debate. You are choosing to believe things about the data which appear to be untrue.

With that in consideration, and call me weird, but I find it important to ask the question in regard to the data; Why over 5,000 people (out of a reported +20,000 deaths) have died within 48 hours of being vaccinated Should that not raise questions?

No. The data has been explained and should be clear given that Australia's data on causality - which you continue to ignore - bears no resemblance.

I agree, the ratio of deaths to vaccine injections is theoretically small,

No the data is ACTUALLY definitive - there is nothing "theoretical" about it.

... although we may have trouble convincing the Parents who have lost their children within a day or two of being jabbed, of the mathematical insignificance of such percentages!

Given this has never yet occurred in Australia, you are clutching at straws.
Why are you not using data on hospitalisations leading to deaths, which are well known?

Death is the final frontier of course ..... The Adverse reactions across the board have been exponential'

That's an unsubstantiated claim. The important metric is severe illness that perpetuates or leads to death. And in that regard we know death attributable to severe reactions from Pfizer in Australia is presently nil.

You can post as many charts and tables as you want that avoid what is relevant, as the bottom line is that vaccines are substantially safer than catching covid for every age group, and that deaths caused by vaccinations are rare. Hiding these truths because you have not worked out where causation sits in data analysis is a disservice to those you speak to on these matters.

 

[Belli]

It is totally baffling, and somewhat bizarre, to imply an organisation such as the CDC with about 15,000 staff which includes computer scientists, statisticians, biologists and a host of other disciplines don't know how to count.