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Coronavirus (COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2) outbreak discussion

Will the "Corona Virus" turn into a worldwide epidemic or fizzle out?

  • Yes

    Votes: 37 49.3%
  • No

    Votes: 9 12.0%
  • Bigger than SARS, but not worldwide epidemic (Black Death/bubonic plague)

    Votes: 25 33.3%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 4 5.3%

  • Total voters
    75
Absolutely devoid of evidence you insist on spreading what you prefer to believe.
At no point have you shown you know what you are talking about.

On 1 January the WHO took action to confirm what was being advised to them rather than assume it had to be true. Once they were satisfied, they sent out their advisories in keeping with protocols. Using the USA as an example, by 3 January direct communication with Chinese health authorities commenced. US health authorities have never said the Chinese lied to them or withheld information. The US secretary for Health was interviewed at length by the BBC and made it clear that cooperation was occurring and ongoing.

I won't be responding to you again as you continue to make debunked claims and seem oblivious to reality.
 

The incompetence of the Trump administration has zero to do with how China initially covered up the virus and subsequently condemned restriction of travel to/from China while maintain an extreme lockdown on intra-China travel.

Do not let China get off the hook with this. I equally abhor Trumps reaction and everything about him, but this is a China issue.
 
It's who job to investigate. Not eat CCP figures.
You didn't debunk anything. You sprouted a CCP timeline.
US were not allowed to get boots on the ground till late in the development. Taiwan were blocked from accessing where they need to go for data. Want to tell me the date WHO actually put boots on the ground.

There's a lot of models out there that ain't massaged figures. Want to call them into question?
Or are models not kosher enough for you?
 
I won't be responding to you again as you continue to make debunked claims and seem oblivious to reality.
Following the same script...
It's almost a carbon copy from last time. All you argument fall apart based on the fact the figures are dubious.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/bal-te.sars21apr21-story.html


You tell me who is "oblivious to reality".
 

I don't believe much that the CCP says and much less what Trump says but to me the argument is pointless until real investigations and knowledge is gained about the virus and that will take time.

Too many have a finger in the current stories doing the rounds with unlimited agenders.
WHO at the moment are saying they don't know the origins of the Virus.

On a different note a number that came up yesterday really shocked me 2,000 care homes in the UK have had outbreaks of the Virus and are not counting the deaths.

Some one (maybe Boris) should be taken around the back and shot I couldn't imagine that happening here our state and federal governments so far have done an outstanding job.

Talking of causing deaths how many will die in developing counties thanks to Trump pulling funding.
 

At some stage everyone has to have a look at what happened, how this virus came about, how it spread and most importantly what could have/should have been done at the early stages to minimise its effect.

Actually I would be confident that my bolded comment is already well understood in medical and government circles. The last outbreaks have created plans and structures that are supposed to be wheeled out to maximise the capacity to treat people and to prevent further infection. The problem has always been convincing politicians to treat the issue seriously and take action promptly.

Right now the world is playing catch up on dealing with the epidemic. This heated debate about blaming the Chinese for starting it, is just a smokescreen by Donald Trump to divert attention from his disastrous practices at dealing with a known epidemic from mid late January onwards.
 
This is perhaps the dumbest comment yet.
 
At some stage everyone has to have a look at what happened, how this virus came about, how it spread ...

You think that is likely when "everyone" is not given a look at what happened, only a controlled group of Chinese scientists whose investigation results are subject to CCP approval.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/13/chine...sorship-notices-for-new-coronavirus-research/

At least two Chinese universities published and then deleted notices on new censorship rules that could squelch research into the origin of the coronavirus pandemic, according to a report.

The new rules for research of COVID-19 are heightening criticism of China’s government, whose alleged under-count of cases is blamed for hindering global preparation. The research policies were first reported Saturday by The Guardian, which said a tipster alerted the newspaper to cached versions.

An April 5 notice posted by the China University of Geosciences (Wuhan) said a university academic committee would review research into the origin of the virus “with an emphasis on checking the accuracy of the thesis, as well as whether it is suitable for publication” before turning it over to the authorities to review.

When the checks have been completed, the school should report to the Ministry of Science and Technology, and it should only be published after it has [also] been checked by MOST,” the notice said.

An April 9 notice posted by Fudan University in Shanghai said that, according to the central government’s State Council, “Papers related to virus tracing should be managed strictly.” The memo outlined similar review steps.

......

The Guardian reported that it received, but could not validate, a third document from the Renmin Hospital of Wuhan University that also said research into the origins of the virus had to be sent to Beijing for approval before publication.


.......

“They are seeking to transform it from a massive disaster to one where the government did everything right and gave the rest of the world time to prepare,” Kevin Carrico, a senior research fellow of Chinese studies at Monash University, told The Guardian.

 
[QUOTE="moXJO, post: 1068021, member: 4631"]This is perhaps the dumbest comment yet.

Nope moXjo. Your response beats it by the length of the straight.[/QUOTE]

Trying to say out of forums, as I think everyone has gone a little crazy.

But your response Basilio is the dumbest yet.

The Don f--ked up HOWEVER

The CCP f---ked up even more.

Which is the lesser of 2 evils, neither one.
 
Trump will get voted out. Wake me when the same applies in China.
 
Waiting for the day party hacks STFU.

How bad does s*** have to get before this happens
 
Yeah well China's ministry also went to the trouble of taking down the cached version of the research. Good luck clicking on it. All you'll get is "error 404... kjc.cug.edu.cn ... - that's all we know"
If they have s break through they will have kicked a propaganda goal.
To the nations under their influence in Asia and Africa it will act as a way to show they are the strength.
 
Waiting for the day party hacks STFU.

How bad does s*** have to get before this happens

Agree Republicans and Trump and their supporters have a lot to answer for.
 
China takes a page from Russia's disinformation playbook

The Chinese Communist Party has spent the past week publicly pushing conspiracy theories intended to cast doubt on the origins of the coronavirus, and thus deflect criticism over China's early mishandling of the epidemic.

Why it matters: The strategy is a clear departure from Beijing's previous disinformation tactics and signals its increasingly aggressive approach to managing its image internationally.

What's happening: Verified Chinese government Twitter accounts, Chinese embassies and consulates, and some Chinese media outlets have promoted several different conspiracy theories about the origins of the coronavirus.

  • One theory, tweeted multiple times by Chinese foreign ministry deputy spokesperson Zhao Lijian and boosted by official Chinese state media, states that the virus may have come from a U.S. military lab.
  • Another suggests the disease first appeared in Italy in November, before it appeared in Wuhan.
  • Numerous pronouncements from a variety of Chinese government sources have stated more vaguely that the virus may not have come from Wuhan, the city in Hubei where the outbreak began.
Reality check: Virologists say the coronavirus shows no signs of being engineered in a lab, and epidemiologists agree that the first outbreak was in Wuhan.

  • China's ambassador to the U.S. Cui Tiankai has disavowed the conspiracy theory, calling it "crazy" in an interview with "Axios on HBO."
The big picture: Beijing is emulating Russia's disinformation playbook.

  • "What we’ve seen over the past week and a half over COVD-19 in terms of Chinese party-state manipulation has been a real departure from what we have seen in the past," Laura Rosenberger, director of the Alliance for Securing Democracy at the German Marshall Fund of the United States, tells Axios.
Rosenberger points to three main tactics that Beijing has applied in its coronavirus messaging campaign that clearly resemble Russian strategy:

  • The propagation of "multiple conflicting theories."
  • The amplification of "conspiracy websites," which Rosenberger said are third-party sites without funding transparency that promote the same theories the state aims to boost.
  • The coordinated use of diplomatic and embassy Twitter accounts and state-backed media to help boost the theories.
Russian disinformation tactics typically aim to destabilize the information environment through spreading conspiracy theories, with the goal of creating chaos and discord in target societies. This strategy has been widely deployed in recent years to:

  • Interfere in the 2016 U.S. presidential election.
  • Disassociate Russia from its poisoning of former Russian military officer Sergei Skripal on British soil in 2018.
  • Cast doubt on Russia's role in the downing of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 over Ukraine in July 2014.
But Chinese Communist Party disinformation has previously followed methodology and goals distinctly different from Russia's.

  • Chinese information operations typically aim to uphold a single immutable narrative that casts the Chinese Communist Party in a positive light.
  • There is intense censorship inside China of information that makes the party look bad, as well as suppression of dissenting narratives outside China. The suppression is often done through coercion — increasingly, by threatening to deny market access to organizations if they say things the party doesn't like.
  • The goal isn't to destabilize the information environment, but rather to make Beijing appear unassailably good.
  • But unlike Russia, this strategy typically doesn't target foreign societies beyond their perceptions of China.
It isn't either/or. Beijing continues to employ the above strategy both at home and abroad as it strives to deflect blame for its early cover-up of the epidemic and to show itself a more reliable partner to countries than the United States.

  • China has embarked on an international humanitarian relief campaign to provide medical supplies to dozens of countries fighting outbreaks of their own, accompanied by a major propaganda blitz.
  • It's an "aggressive information campaign to portray China as the new partner of first resort," said Rosenberger, and " U.S. missteps" have created "fertile ground" for this message to take hold.


https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-c...ook-c49b6f3b-2a9a-47c1-9065-240121c9ceb2.html
 
If we swap China in the above for America and Trump it reads more credibly:

The American President has spent the past week publicly pushing conspiracy theories intended to cast doubt on the origins of the coronavirus, and thus deflect criticism over America's early mishandling of the epidemic.

Why it matters: The strategy is a clear departure from Trump’s previous disinformation tactics and signals its increasingly aggressive approach to managing his image internationally.

What's happening: Verified Trump Twitter accounts, American embassies and consulates, and some American media outlets have promoted several different conspiracy theories about the origins of the coronavirus.
  • One theory, tweeted multiple times by the American President and boosted by official American Presidential media, states that the virus may have come from a military lab.
  • Another suggests the disease first appeared in Italy in November, before it appeared in Wuhan.
  • Numerous pronouncements from a variety of American government sources have stated more vaguely that the virus may not have come from Wuhan, the city in Hubei where the outbreak began.
Reality check: Virologists say the coronavirus shows no signs of being engineered in a lab, and epidemiologists agree that the first outbreak was in Wuhan.
  • America's ambassador to China, Cui Tiankai has disavowed the conspiracy theory, calling it "crazy" in an interview with "Axios on HBO."
The big picture: Trump is emulating Russia's disinformation playbook.
  • "What we’ve seen over the past week and a half over COVD-19 in terms of Trump’s manipulation has been a real departure from what we have seen in the past," Laura Rosenberger, director of the Alliance for Securing Democracy at the German Marshall Fund of the United States, tells Axios.
Rosenberger points to three main tactics that Trump has applied in its coronavirus messaging campaign that clearly resemble Russian strategy:
  • The propagation of "multiple conflicting theories."
  • The amplification of "conspiracy websites," which Rosenberger said are third-party sites without funding transparency that promote the same theories the state aims to boost.
  • The coordinated use of diplomatic and embassy Twitter accounts and state-backed media to help boost the theories.
 
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