Coronavirus (COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2) outbreak discussion

[Knobby22]

some out there think they're the same as before the virus. that people dying aren't dying from the virus, even though they have it. e.g. Hitchens.

Even the younger ones? And the temporary morgues as the main morgue is overflowing ...and the temporary direct burials in mass graves in New York of thousands of people ? I think anyone would have to admit the virus is having an effect.

 

[Logique]

31 March 2020 - Teachers Urge Government To Reopen Schools Before Students Learn To Think For Themselves
https://babylonbee.com/news/teachers-warn-parents-arent-properly-equipped-to-indoctrinate-children
"U.S.—Teachers at [US] government schools have raised their concerns that the recent closure of their institutions will have a damaging effect on students..."We must reopen as soon as possible -- before they regain their ability to have independent thoughts," said New York 4th-grade teacher Ms. Jenny Mudd...
...Teachers have further pointed out that parents aren't properly equipped to indoctrinate their children with government propaganda..."

 

[moXJO]

US as a % are still under Italy.

Meanwhile China is pushing further into the south China seas.

Oh and just so we know who the CCP sympathizers are:

China makes Italy buy back its personal protective gear during coronavirus pandemic: Report

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...ctive-gear-during-coronavirus-pandemic-report

Make no mistake that China hid this and that WHO is sucking at China's teat.

China and the WHO's chief: Hold them both accountable for pandemic

https://thehill.com/opinion/interna...chief-hold-them-both-accountable-for-pandemic

How China’s fake news machine is rewriting the history of Covid-19, even as the pandemic unfolds
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/04/04/china-fake-news-coronavirus-164652

I often wonder what some people's ties are that post here.

 

[hja]

31 March 2020 - Teachers Urge Government To Reopen Schools Before Students Learn To Think For Themselves
https://babylonbee.com/news/teachers-warn-parents-arent-properly-equipped-to-indoctrinate-children
"U.S.—Teachers at [US] government schools have raised their concerns that the recent closure of their institutions will have a damaging effect on students..."We must reopen as soon as possible -- before they regain their ability to have independent thoughts," said New York 4th-grade teacher Ms. Jenny Mudd...
...Teachers have further pointed out that parents aren't properly equipped to indoctrinate their children with government propaganda..."

Teachers with a sense of humour... they're probably parents themselves.

 

[rederob]

31 March 2020 - Teachers Urge Government To Reopen Schools Before Students Learn To Think For Themselves
https://babylonbee.com/news/teachers-warn-parents-arent-properly-equipped-to-indoctrinate-children
"U.S.—Teachers at [US] government schools have raised their concerns that the recent closure of their institutions will have a damaging effect on students..."We must reopen as soon as possible -- before they regain their ability to have independent thoughts," said New York 4th-grade teacher Ms. Jenny Mudd...
...Teachers have further pointed out that parents aren't properly equipped to indoctrinate their children with government propaganda..."

Why are you quoting from a site that literally makes up stories to continue their satirical stance, which is what they exist for?
I hope you do not think it is real news.

 

[Purple XS2]

I take it as given that contagion and fatality statisitics from the PRC are 'illustrative' rather than factual. As the originator of this thread @DB008 said:
As we are dealing with China (CCR), l would add a zero (at a minimum) onto those numbers because the CCR lie to save face.
Subsequent analysis seems to hold up that assessment.

So now? The assertion that Chinese policies have stiffled transmission, except for nationals returning from outside; I presume to be false. Slowed it down? Sure. Ceased? Rubbish.

This assertion I take to be a managed narrative to explain the fact that in order to restart the economy, there must be a second wave of COVID-19, in China.

This time, the managed narrative will have it that it's other countries' fault. The Chinese government's new policy would seem to be that xenophobia is an allowable release valve, lest the people think of finding blame with the government.

The internal and international consequences of this policy have the potential to relegate all that has transpired in recent months to a mere prologue.

To quote Churchill (November 1942, after 2nd El Alamein):
"...this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. but it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."

 

[bellenuit]

some out there think they're the same as before the virus. that people dying aren't dying from the virus, even though they have it. e.g. Hitchens.

Do people actually die from the virus or from complications caused by the virus? In some cases it may be hard to know whether the death should be attributed to the virus or not, particularly if the person had severe medical conditions prior to getting the virus. Would the person have died anyway or was it the virus that pushed him/her over the edge?

The figures as to what is virus related will always be a bit fuzzy. It might be reasonable to say that anyone who died from any existing condition after they contacted the virus died from the virus. Although this will overstate things on the high side for the reason above, countering that are the people who have died from existing conditions that were exasperated by the virus (thus should be attributed to the virus) but were never tested or tested false negative so are not classified as a virus related death.

 

[rederob]

As we are dealing with China (CCR), l would add a zero (at a minimum) onto those numbers because the CCR lie to save face.
Subsequent analysis seems to hold up that assessment.

Please provide that analysis.

So now? The assertion that Chinese policies have stiffled transmission, except for nationals returning from outside; I presume to be false. Slowed it down? Sure. Ceased? Rubbish.

Your evidence is what?

This time, the managed narrative will have it that it's other countries' fault. The Chinese government's new policy would seem to be that xenophobia is an allowable release valve, lest the people think of finding blame with the government.

That's mere conjecture based on Sinophobia. The majority of new cases are returning nationals.
Unfortunately, however, many non-Asians are as identifiable there as are Muslims in our community, and there will be a minority of ignorant people who make them targets for abuse/attack.

 

[rederob]

Do people actually die from the virus or from complications caused by the virus? In some cases it may be hard to know whether the death should be attributed to the virus or not, particularly if the person had severe medical conditions prior to getting the virus. Would the person have died anyway or was it the virus that pushed him/her over the edge?

It's possible different jurisdictions might consider the initial cause of hospital admission led to death, rather than subsequent infection by COVID-19.
I do know that in the February international study of over 1000 candidates that every death was due to sepsis induced by COVID-19. Maybe there are later studies that show a lesser rate.
A major issue picked up from overseas anecdote is that many deaths in aged care facilities are not being ascribed to COVID-19 as they were never provided an opportunity to transfer to a hospital for critical care and, therefore, no clinical diagnosis was made.

 

[Purple XS2]

Please provide that analysis.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/h...d/news-story/c66694b54ca73fdb039c3dbaa5f1cd48

And widely cited elsewhere.
Observing the rapidity of the spread in Europe and the USA, that the official Chinese figures have so low throughout this saga surely testifies to their unbelievability?
As for the veracity of official Chinese data, I remind you the PRC was still telling the WHO in January that there was minimal evidence of person-to-person transmission.
By end December 2019, doctors in Taiwan were being informed by their mainland colleagues of illness amongst medical staff in Wuhan.

That's mere conjecture based on Sinophobia

My point being that Chinese government sanctioned Xenophobia, and accusations of Sinophobia as the standard response to any criticism of PRC policy, are the new norm.
Actually, the latter has been normal for quite a while. I expect it to intensify.

And dare I add: QED?

P

 

[rederob]

Observing the rapidity of the spread in Europe and the USA, that the official Chinese figures have so low throughout this saga surely testifies to their unbelievability?

So, a guess, but no actual analysis.

As for the veracity of official Chinese data, I remind you the PRC was still telling the WHO in January that there was minimal evidence of person-to-person transmission.

Please offer the evidence you have that says otherwise.

By end December 2019, doctors in Taiwan were being informed by their mainland colleagues of illness amongst medical staff in Wuhan.

Evidence?

My point being that Chinese government sanctioned Xenophobia, and accusations of Sinophobia as the standard response to any criticism of PRC policy, are the new norm.

Only if you are ignorant.

 

[moXJO]

Remembering Rob blocked me and didn't see my original posts that disputes everything that he has posted with evidence.

Just like the CCP he has to block the undeniable truth.

 

[dutchie]

 

[rederob]

Would have been more informative if you posted direct from Breitbart.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

On Friday, the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations published research revealing the breadth and scale of the race. "As of April 8, 2020, 115 vaccine candidates are in varying stages of development", the study, published in the journal Nature Reviews Drug Discovery, disclosed. Of those, 78 are "confirmed as active", with the status of the remaining 37 hidden from public view.

The study found a wide range of technology platforms were being used, including traditional and novel approaches. While most are developing solutions that will be delivered via injection, there are also pills and nose drops in the pipeline.

Almost all aim to induce "neutralising antibodies" within the recipient.

Most of the active projects are still in the exploratory or preclinical stages. However, five teams have vaccines in clinical development. At least two of those are administering trial vaccines to volunteers in the US and China. Moderna, an American biotech company, was able to start clinical testing of its vaccine just 63 days after the genetic sequence of COVID-19 was first released by China via the World Health Organisation.

Of the 78 vaccines in development, 72 per cent are being pursued by industry. They include big pharmaceutical firms such as Janssen, GlaxoSmithKine and Pfizer, but most are smaller biotech firms. The remaining 28 per cent are being led by academic, public sector, and other not-for-profit organisations. Of the confirmed active vaccine candidates, 46 per cent are in North America, and 18 per cent each in China, Asia and Australia and Europe....

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe...his-century-s-space-race-20200411-p54j0p.html

 

[rederob]

On Friday, the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations published research revealing the breadth and scale of the race. "As of April 8, 2020, 115 vaccine candidates are in varying stages of development", the study, published in the journal Nature Reviews Drug Discovery, disclosed. Of those, 78 are "confirmed as active", with the status of the remaining 37 hidden from public view.

The study found a wide range of technology platforms were being used, including traditional and novel approaches. While most are developing solutions that will be delivered via injection, there are also pills and nose drops in the pipeline.

Almost all aim to induce "neutralising antibodies" within the recipient.

Most of the active projects are still in the exploratory or preclinical stages. However, five teams have vaccines in clinical development. At least two of those are administering trial vaccines to volunteers in the US and China. Moderna, an American biotech company, was able to start clinical testing of its vaccine just 63 days after the genetic sequence of COVID-19 was first released by China via the World Health Organisation.

Of the 78 vaccines in development, 72 per cent are being pursued by industry. They include big pharmaceutical firms such as Janssen, GlaxoSmithKine and Pfizer, but most are smaller biotech firms. The remaining 28 per cent are being led by academic, public sector, and other not-for-profit organisations. Of the confirmed active vaccine candidates, 46 per cent are in North America, and 18 per cent each in China, Asia and Australia and Europe....

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe...his-century-s-space-race-20200411-p54j0p.html

Here's the link to this landscape:

 

[IFocus]

Note that Australia's chief medical officer has stated there may never be a vaccine for the Corona virus!

Just think about that for a moment!

 

[moXJO]

Note that Australia's chief medical officer has stated there may never be a vaccine for the Corona virus!

Just think about that for a moment!

Eventually we get heard immunity the natural way. Drugs that alleviate the symptoms can lower the risks.

 

[grah33]

Do people actually die from the virus or from complications caused by the virus? In some cases it may be hard to know whether the death should be attributed to the virus or not, particularly if the person had severe medical conditions prior to getting the virus. Would the person have died anyway or was it the virus that pushed him/her over the edge?

The figures as to what is virus related will always be a bit fuzzy. It might be reasonable to say that anyone who died from any existing condition after they contacted the virus died from the virus. Although this will overstate things on the high side for the reason above, countering that are the people who have died from existing conditions that were exasperated by the virus (thus should be attributed to the virus) but were never tested or tested false negative so are not classified as a virus related death.

I don't know , it seems very fuzzy. The testing too might be really messed.

 

[grah33]

Even the younger ones? And the temporary morgues as the main morgue is overflowing ...and the temporary direct burials in mass graves in New York of thousands of people ? I think anyone would have to admit the virus is having an effect.

Yeah okay. I suppose another one is the number of people dying on the cruise ships. I'll have to check and see