Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Commodities tipped to collapse

Out of The Australian

Mining still on the up
Robin Bromby, Resources
October 02, 2006

MINING shares, far from peaking, are to soar further according to the latest reports from leading analysts. The resources team at Deutsche Bank predicts that Rio Tinto's price has still $34 to go before it reaches target.

Deutsche's Peter Rose and colleagues, with Rio last trading at $70.10, made this big call of a $104 target in the belief that the worst of the commodities price correction was over and recovery was just around the corner.

This was a view shared by Merrill Lynch's London resources guru Evy Hambro who said on Friday that mining companies were "staggeringly cheap", a sentiment echoed over the weekend by Sydney-based Fat Prophets which believed the large diversified majors such as Rio and BHP Billiton were "incredibly cheap".

Fat Prophets analyst Gavin Wendt said no sector other than resources could offer share prices only 10 times earnings, solid yields and rivers of cash flowing in. "If you sell BHP or Rio and take your money, where do your put it? In banks -- no; in retail -- no; in Telstra -- no."

Citigroup said its key resources pick was BHP while ABN Amro, reporting on that company, stated: "Enough selling, time to buy." This confluence of bullishness comes just weeks after several analysts, most notably Morgan Stanley's Stephen Roach, spooked the markets with calls that the metals boom was about to fall over, triggered by economic slowdown and a housing sector crisis in the US.

Yet the stocks at the London Metal Exchange indicate demand for metals is not far from its peak. LME nickel stocks were 5500 tonnes last week (less than two days' global use) against a 52-week high of a still modest 37,218 tonnes; zinc stocks were at 142,200 tonnes against a 52-week high of 533,325 tonnes and lead at 62,500 tonnes against a high of 117,900 tonnes.

And the two-year futures on the LME tell the story. Nickel for delivery in three months was fetching $US28,775/tonne on Friday, but the 27-month contract price ended at a very bullish $US20,700; copper was selling on Friday at $US7535/tonne, but buyers expect to be paying a still high $US6040 in 27 months time; while zinc is also expected to make only a modest retreat from $US3340/tonne to $2468.

All those price trends are down -- but the lower ones still represent bountiful profits for debt-free majors.

ABN Amro's team said the market's confusion was understandable, with some investors saying base metals were about to fall out of bed, others not understanding what the doom and gloom was all about.

"It could be fair to say that we are contributing to the confusion with our view of equity prices heading north and base metal prices heading south."

Even if metal prices fell, the big miners were riding on a tide of handsome commodity incomes. Their share prices would rise once "ongoing growth and solid returns drown out the near-term noise". Deutsche bases its $104 share price target for Rio on global growth moderating but not imploding, upgraded iron ore price forecasts and Rio earning big money on aluminium, copper and molybdenum.

Less favoured was BHP, although the target is $32.60 against Friday's $25.63 close. Deutsche sees commodities staying strong after a mid-cycle dip resulting in BHP shares performing well over the next year.

Zinifex also gets the nod: its target has been increased to $14.59 a share based on higher zinc prices. It closed at $11.75.
 
swingstar said:
My point is that not "everyone" is bearish, as indicated by that article. In fact, analysts are very bullish.

Hmmmm. The selected ones for the article are. Perhaps the ed is bullish and going long his own stocks?
 
Cocoa's down! ......Coffee's down!.........Sugar's down..........might have a cup of tea this morning!.........PS Oil's down too, but it doesn't taste too good :)
 
barney said:
Cocoa's down! ......Coffee's down!.........Sugar's down..........might have a cup of tea this morning!.........PS Oil's down too, but it doesn't taste too good :)

Not often I get to quote myself...........Ditto to everything I said yesterday..................

You and the Professor must carry a lot of clout to get coffee dropping that easily Wayne!! :cup:
 
swingstar said:
My point is that not "everyone" is bearish, as indicated by that article. In fact, analysts are very bullish.


Interesting story in Your Trading Edge Sept/Oct 06 page 20 , by Gary Norden .

He gives a run down on the difference between --- Brokers, Analysts , Traders and TRADERS

found it was what I suspected all along

Cheers
 
barney said:
Not often I get to quote myself...........Ditto to everything I said yesterday..................

You and the Professor must carry a lot of clout to get coffee dropping that easily Wayne!! :cup:

LOL, geez, you guys are funny!! Glad to see the humour flowing through!!
 
professor_frink said:
Not a moment too soon either. My mercenaries were ready to go :D

:shoot:

Hey Prof and Wayne, You guys may need to watch your backs after what you've done to coffee...........Lots of irate farmers out there ..............exerpt from publication...................

For most Americans, drinking coffee is a daily ritual. And whether you're drinking gourmet blend or freeze-dried instant, the price is about the same from one day to the next.

For coffee farmers it's a different story. A price crash in the world coffee market has pushed farmers into bankruptcy, with thousands losing their lands, and starvation looming all too close.
Reports say tens of thousands of Mexican coffee farmers have fled their fields in search of incomes to feed their families. El Salvador recently acknowledged that over 30,000 jobs have been destroyed because of the price slump. Many of the 60,000 coffee producers in Nicaragua are facing losing their land because of mass indebtedness. Farmers in all three countries have taken to the streets to demand government support for farmers on the brink of starvation.


"You two boys will be sorry!"

Site if anyone is interested............ http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/fairtrade/coffee/news2001/gx100001.html
 
barney said:
Hey Prof and Wayne, You guys may need to watch your backs after what you've done to coffee...........Lots of irate farmers out there ..............exerpt from publication...................

For most Americans, drinking coffee is a daily ritual. And whether you're drinking gourmet blend or freeze-dried instant, the price is about the same from one day to the next.

For coffee farmers it's a different story. A price crash in the world coffee market has pushed farmers into bankruptcy, with thousands losing their lands, and starvation looming all too close.
Reports say tens of thousands of Mexican coffee farmers have fled their fields in search of incomes to feed their families. El Salvador recently acknowledged that over 30,000 jobs have been destroyed because of the price slump. Many of the 60,000 coffee producers in Nicaragua are facing losing their land because of mass indebtedness. Farmers in all three countries have taken to the streets to demand government support for farmers on the brink of starvation.


"You two boys will be sorry!"

Site if anyone is interested............ http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/fairtrade/coffee/news2001/gx100001.html

Barney,

Did you see the date on that article? Anyway starving farmers can join our band of mercenaries :D

As a side issue, when such reports come out, it presents a sterling trading opportunity. When farmers start revolting, burning crops etc you can be sure that that commodity is at, or pretty close to, minimum value.
 

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A similar situation in Cocoa in late 1999.

It took a bit longer to trend upwards, but the minimum value opportunity was still valid (i.e write WTFOTM puts)
 

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wayneL said:
When farmers start revolting, burning crops etc you can be sure that that commodity is at, or pretty close to, minimum value.
:topic
As they said before the French Revolution "the farmers are revolting " - "yes and they smell too". But who had the last laugh ? lol. I sometimes try to imagine the fact that Aus was founded in 1788, and the French revolution was in 1789–1799. AND no internet to keep up to date. !! Imagine being stuck in Sydney then !! Quick - BUY Guillotines!! - Sell CASTLES!!
sorry Wayne - I keep doing this to your serious threads dont I lol. I'll try to be serious tomorrow - but right now its happy hour lol.
 
wayneL said:
Barney,

Did you see the date on that article? Anyway starving farmers can join our band of mercenaries :D

As a side issue, when such reports come out, it presents a sterling trading opportunity. When farmers start revolting, burning crops etc you can be sure that that commodity is at, or pretty close to, minimum value.

Hi Wayne.......Just being a bit silly... sorry!.......didn't even look at the date............I don't even entertain the thought of trading Comm's.....I have enough trouble with regular stocks :D ...........It is interesting how they move up/down just the same..............and coffee has been "roasting" of late..............as for 20/20 and his French Revolution........if they'd drunk more coffee instead of that French wine, they probably wouldn't have had a Revolution :cup: :bier: Cheers Barney.
 
wayneL said:
Barney,

Did you see the date on that article? Anyway starving farmers can join our band of mercenaries :D

As a side issue, when such reports come out, it presents a sterling trading opportunity. When farmers start revolting, burning crops etc you can be sure that that commodity is at, or pretty close to, minimum value.

Hey Wayne, Just as a serious follow up to that coffee slump, I see it took about 10 months for it to fully re establish its uptrend..........What was the catylist for the recovery??..............PS You are right how the "doom and gloom" articles were a pre-curser to the recovery...........I guess when things are really bad, they often can't get much worse?!...............What would be your slant on Sugar atm just out of curiousity, cause it has been "suffering" for a while as well?? Cheers Barney.
 
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