China's Economy

[rederob]

The hypocrisy of the West towards China is getting more farcical by the day.
Ofcom has removed CGTV from UK airwaves as it cannot comply with the requirement that it have no communist affiliation.
More amusing are the other pretexts from Ofcom, one being how CGTN appeared biased regarding coverage of the Hong Kong riots. I read extensive coverage of these riots and never once saw Western media show any balance of their coverage. Worse, apart from an excellent ABC article, they completely failed to note that the Hong Kong legislature had not enacted necessary provisions stemming from the 1997 handover from Britain, ie. the HKSAR had failed in its obligation to enact its own national security law and actually was relying on assistance from mainland China to suppress the 2019/20 riots.
Meanwhile the USA literally tests the waters regularly by sending its warships through the narrow straits between China and Taiwan, and Biden has now continued the theme. And then the USA accuses China of maintaining an aggressive international stance. Interestingly, Morrison is happy to also have Australian warships patrol the South China Sea with the USA while it struggles to gain any traction on trade concerns. If anything constituted "stupid" from a diplomatic perspective, then Morrison has nailed it. Why are the USA and Australia doing this? Well, it's "to build partnerships that foster maritime security, promote stability and prevent conflict." As I said, at the outset, the hypocrisy is farcical.

And on the topic of farcical, let's end with Fox:

 

[moXJO]

Yeah Rob, you forgot to mention China salami slicing in India, Myanmar and surrounding nations. Its aggressive behaviour in stealing fishing waters all the way to Indonesia. Deletion of Mongolias history. Dark fishing wiping out stocks that have now invaded our waters.

The list just keeps going.
But tell me how "hard done" by the west they are.

 

[moXJO]

The one thing that I agree on is that Australia is stupid getting in bed with the US.

 

[rederob]

Yeah Rob, you forgot to mention China salami slicing in India, Myanmar and surrounding nations. Its aggressive behaviour in stealing fishing waters all the way to Indonesia. Deletion of Mongolias history. Dark fishing wiping out stocks that have now invaded our waters.

The list just keeps going.
But tell me how "hard done" by the west they are.

You should try to add some knowledge to your posts.
International borders remain problematic across the world to this day - just look at the Middle East as an example, or Russia's attempts to claw back its former territories. Taking Tibet, as an example wrt China, when it initially sought help from the international community in its quest for self rule, Tibet got no help from the USA or UK - both powerhouse nations of the day.
WRT fishing, it's open slather in international waters beyond exclusive economic zones.
WRT "deleting history," Australia's record regarding massacres of aboriginals exists almost exclusively in archives, to the point that PM Howard was completely ignorant until brought up to speed. In any case, China can't hold a candle to Japan in terms of forgetting its regrettable history.

On topic proper, what is at issue is the West's continuing demonisation of China, for what gain?
If the West thinks it can stop China from being the world's most economically powerful nation, then it's delusional.
If the West want's to help itself during "transition," then it needs to get smart and enter into business partnerships on an increasing basis. Such partnerships need to develop mutual linkages rather than one way flows, such as stopping Australia from being merely a de facto minesite for China.

 

[finicky]

You'd make a good PLA social media troll rederob. Many of us are sick of liberal guilt trips being laid on us for what the ill effects of settlement on war-like indigenes generations ago - to shut people up about existential threats today. The bs about 'demonisation' - China is being run by thieves, thugs and murderers who lie like they breathe.

 

[rederob]

You'd make a good PLA social media troll rederob. Many of us are sick of liberal guilt trips being laid on us for what the ill effects of settlement on war-like indigenes generations ago - to shut people up about existential threats today. The bs about 'demonisation' - China is being run by thieves, thugs and murderers who lie like they breathe.

China is a run via a meritocracy.
If you want to make comments that are sensible, back them up.
Your so called "thieves, thugs and murderers" have now sent thousands of medical workers to poorer nations to assist with covid mitigation. They have also landed vaccines in about a dozen countries and presently either have or are negotiating with 27 countries on vaccine supply. What is our record?
What is the USA's record?
What is Europe's record?
If the West wants to win the hearts and minds of nations to foster democracies, they are doing themselves no favours.
Moreover, during the past year China has barely slowed down its B&R initiatives, so more and more developing nations are looking to China rather than the West.
Next door, the next most populous nation, India, is no friend of China. However, India needs to tread carefully as the impending development of a large scale hydroelectric dam on the Lower Yarlung Tsangpo River could create major downstream issues for the sacred Brahmaputra (the project could deliver up to 3 times the generation capacity of the Three Gorges Dam).

I am agnostic on China's politics, but not on its economics. China has transparent plans for its future and why Australia isn't trying to see how it can reap some mutual benefits going forward is somewhat baffling.

 

[againsthegrain]

China is a run via a meritocracy.
If you want to make comments that are sensible, back them up.
Your so called "thieves, thugs and murderers" have now sent thousands of medical workers to poorer nations to assist with covid mitigation. They have also landed vaccines in about a dozen countries and presently either have or are negotiating with 27 countries on vaccine supply. What is our record?
What is the USA's record?
What is Europe's record?
If the West wants to win the hearts and minds of nations to foster democracies, they are doing themselves no favours.
Moreover, during the past year China has barely slowed down its B&R initiatives, so more and more developing nations are looking to China rather than the West.
Next door, the next most populous nation, India, is no friend of China. However, India needs to tread carefully as the impending development of a large scale hydroelectric dam on the Lower Yarlung Tsangpo River could create major downstream issues for the sacred Brahmaputra (the project could deliver up to 3 times the generation capacity of the Three Gorges Dam).
View attachment 119590
I am agnostic on China's politics, but not on its economics. China has transparent plans for its future and why Australia isn't trying to see how it can reap some mutual benefits going forward is somewhat baffling.

- The usual soap in the eyes, It is a fact china sent faulty equipment and many European countries sent them back

- chinese citizens backed by chinese organisations were organising the hoarding and sending of masks etc back to china, as happened in Australia and we were short.

- china never extends a hand without expecting something back. Where ever the chinese help was sent will now be under pressure to do "better" deals with china

give with one hand take back with 2

 

[rederob]

- The usual soap in the eyes, It is a fact china sent faulty equipment and many European countries sent them back

- chinese citizens backed by chinese organisations were organising the hoarding and sending of masks etc back to china, as happened in Australia and we were short.

- china never extends a hand without expecting something back. Where ever the chinese help was sent will now be under pressure to do "better" deals with china

give with one hand take back with 2

The fact is that China - the government - never sent the equipment you are talking about. Nations bypassed Chinese authorities and did direct business with unapproved suppliers.
Your point about masks is an irrelevance. I have been using hand-made cloth masks for yonks.
Although it is a fact that Australia fluffed pandemic planning 101 and failed to ensure it was prepared with adequate PPE.

As to China making inroads to other nations, yes, I am sure they will be hopeful that they get ongoing business. After all, that is exactly what the B&R initiative set out to achieve.
Do I need to reiterate what is happening so that you understand it?
Which leaves us to wonder exactly what is it that we now need to do to see if we can get ahead of the game instead of acting like third reserves.

 

[againsthegrain]

The fact is that China - the government - never sent the equipment you are talking about. Nations bypassed Chinese authorities and did direct business with unapproved suppliers.
Your point about masks is an irrelevance. I have been using hand-made cloth masks for yonks.
Although it is a fact that Australia fluffed pandemic planning 101 and failed to ensure it was prepared with adequate PPE.

As to China making inroads to other nations, yes, I am sure they will be hopeful that they get ongoing business. After all, that is exactly what the B&R initiative set out to achieve.
Do I need to reiterate what is happening so that you understand it?
Which leaves us to wonder exactly what is it that we now need to do to see if we can get ahead of the game instead of acting like third reserves.

You can try to spin it whatever way you want, because ccp are master influencers of the weak minds, like a cult.

Much like posting doctored images in Twitter that are obviously fake then claiming its a "artists interpretation of real events" with that kind of logic anything can be explained and shown to your own liking.

Not offering a apology, not admiting your wrong is just proof of the madness, any line of sane discussion or logic is forlorn

 

[rederob]

You can try to spin it whatever way you want, because ccp are master influencers of the weak minds, like a cult.

Much like posting doctored images in Twitter that are obviously fake then claiming its a "artists interpretation of real events" with that kind of logic anything can be explained and shown to your own liking.

Not offering a apology, not admiting your wrong is just proof of the madness and no line of sane discussion or logic

Try posting other than personal opinions, and perhaps focus on the points of contention.
Who is Australia's largest trading partner?
Why hasn't an Australian Prime Minister visited China since September 2106?
What is Australia doing to secure longer term advantages for Australia/Australian businesses?

We are often called the "lucky country."
What was that "luck" due to during and post GFC?

In normal times we would have expected our government to have been pleased with a record trade surplus in 2020, and be singing its praises. I found very little news about it except for a suggestion it was significantly due to lesser imports:


However, it was apparent that resources sustained the strongest outcome:

And it was even more apparent where that demand came from:

(data updated to 28 January 2021)

The economic data tells Australia a compelling story: we are heavily tied to Asia.
That does not mean we foresake historical allegiances. But it does suggest we act more strategically than we have in recent years.

 

[againsthegrain]

Try posting other than personal opinions, and perhaps focus on the points of contention.
Who is Australia's largest trading partner?
Why hasn't an Australian Prime Minister visited China since September 2106?
What is Australia doing to secure longer term advantages for Australia/Australian businesses?

We are often called the "lucky country."
What was that "luck" due to during and post GFC?

In normal times we would have expected our government to have been pleased with a record trade surplus in 2020, and be singing its praises. I found very little news about it except for a suggestion it was significantly due to lesser imports:
View attachment 119642

However, it was apparent that resources sustained the strongest outcome:
View attachment 119643
And it was even more apparent where that demand came from:
View attachment 119644
(data updated to 28 January 2021)

The economic data tells Australia a compelling story: we are heavily tied to Asia.
That does not mean we foresake historical allegiances. But it does suggest we act more strategically than we have in recent years.

This is going nowhere, typical whataboutism

 

[rederob]

This is going nowhere, typical whataboutism

You have indulged in baseless opinion, so do you have more to offer in relation to the many issues I have raised?
If you do not, then maybe think about contributing elsewhere as even your point on whataboutism suggests you do not actually know what the term means.

 

[finicky]

Yeah let's just leave the field to Beijing bob the super intelligent fifth columnist.

 

[rederob]

Yeah let's just leave the field to Beijing bob the super intelligent fifth columnist.

You, @moXJO and @againsthegrain have not made a single meaningful comment, yet for over a decade China has been largely responsible for Australia's relatively strong position amongst Western nations.
Moreover, it's China's dependence on our mineral resources (excluding thermal coal) that helps our economy.

What exactly is Australia doing to transition away from such a dependence?
Some questions our government fails us on relate to how we either derive a mutual benefit from our present trading relationship beyond the current account, or how we can tap into China's new 5-year plan.
The alternative position seems to be one that Morrison is pursuing. That is, let China come to us, and we can talk, presumably as "equals."
However, apart from our natural resources being in demand, Australia is otherwise as influential (read important) as one of China's smaller Provinces. In other words, we are a small blip on China's radar, unless China is given a good reason to believe otherwise.

 

[rederob]

The driving force of our economy - CHINA (not America) - has shifted into the next gear.

 

[finicky]

The next gear for the totalitarian 'Peoples Republic' will be unequivocal war instead of just unending offensiveness and lies.

 

[Clansman]

The next gear for the totalitarian 'Peoples Republic' will be unequivocal war instead of just unending offensiveness and lies.

In an ideal world yes, then 3rd and 4th gear would be retreat and then surrender.
However China is just smart enough to know that it isn't smart enough.
So they will maintain the status quo and continue to defer to unending offensiveness and lies. Huff and puff.

 

[rederob]

The next gear for the totalitarian 'Peoples Republic' will be unequivocal war instead of just unending offensiveness and lies.

And the basis for you and the already warned @Clansman saying for this is?

 

[againsthegrain]

In an ideal world yes, then 3rd and 4th gear would be retreat and then surrender.
However China is just smart enough to know that it isn't smart enough.
So they will maintain the status quo and continue to defer to unending offensiveness and lies. Huff and puff.

Nothing reliable has ever come out of china, including their threats and scare campaigns which are full of holes like old jocks

 

[Value Collector]

Nothing reliable has ever come out of china, including their threats and scare campaigns which are full of holes like old jocks

I don’t know about that, I have a microwave that is turning 20 years old this year, still works great, Hahaha.