China on our doorstep

[divs4ever]

Seriously!
You have to create straw man arguments to make points on every occasion.
Where again, as I ask often, has China threatened another sovereign state?
How do you consider China to be at our doorstep?
Tell us why Australia rather than China should be defending trade routes that deliver their imports. Remember Australia has no maritime fleet of significance and no capacity to defend more than a few ships close to home.

Then you think that posting the same graphics, which prove nothing as the metrics don't even show 1% of our seaborne tonnage, offers us enlightenment.

And to cap it all off you show a picture of armed personnel on a naval vessel to prove what exactly?

If this is what you put up as robust debate then it's rather disappointing.

i remember flying to Hong Kong in 1990 ( from Brisbane ) it was quite a long flight , got down most of the free ( alcoholic ) drinks list on that leg ( toured the list twice on the Hong Kong -London leg )

i can tell you there are lots of migrant transit points between Brisbane and China

 

[farmerge]

compared to IMF and World Bank loans ??

the problem is a world addicted to debt

and when the debt over-runs the world will we be going back to a slash and burn existence ??

 

[divs4ever]

and when the debt over-runs the world will we be going back to a slash and burn existence ??

well the current residence is now in a persistent crime area , the current shopping centre is subject to multiple break-ins most weeks

3 burglaries in this ( not very big ) street in a week two weeks back

slash and burn , is looking a possible outcome for suburban areas

 

[JohnDe]

"Home Affairs Minister Clare O’Neil has warned that Australians are entering a post-peace period of high tension as the world faces the most complex geo-strategic challenges since World War II"

Let us hope that history doesn't repeat. The scariest thing is the amount of money and resources used by so many countries to re-arm and prepare.

Security parallels with 1940s, says Clare O’Neil

Home Affairs Minister Clare O’Neil has warned that Australians are entering a post-peace period of high tension as the world faces the most complex geo-strategic challenges since World War II, and the country needs to bolster its domestic security in response.
While seeking to reassure people that there was no prospect of war or conflict being imminent, there were parallels with the 1940s that needed to be drawn from to build national resilience.

In a speech to the Curtin Research Institute in Melbourne on Monday night, Ms O’Neil also hailed the AUKUS deal to acquire and build nuclear-powered submarines as one of the most significant decisions the government had taken.

But she said there had been a wasted decade in not preparing the country for the broader challenges, likening the Albanese government’s approach to John Curtin’s wartime leadership.

“We are living through a time of strategic challenge and tension for Australians, and for the world,” Ms O’Neil told the Labor Party faithful.

“Before I draw any parallels with the 1940s, let me be very clear: Australia is not at war, nor are we about to be at war.

“Our Prime Minister has said that we face the most challenging geostrategic circumstances since the second world war.

“So while we are focused on ensuring peace and stability, working to shape our strategic circumstances in our nation’s best interests is and must be one of our government’s core endeavours.”

Ms O’Neil drew parallels with the Curtin era and the lessons on using crisis to shape the future.

“During the war, Curtin and Chifley drew up plans for a 20th-century Australia: a big migration program, full employment, a welfare state and a strong industrial base,” she said. “And they used the crisis to create it. As I said earlier, we are not at war – nor is the prospect imminent. But our security situation is changing.

“We in this room have lived through an era of unprecedented peace and prosperity … Every indication we have tells us that the decades ahead will not be as benign.

“A world of precarious global dynamics, of unknowable technological risks, and unstoppable climate impacts will reshape life in our region. This is the world my children will have to navigate.

“Our job is to govern in a way that will give that next generation the best chance of a secure and prosperous Australia.”

SIMON BENSON
POLITICAL EDITOR

 

[divs4ever]

"Home Affairs Minister Clare O’Neil has warned that Australians are entering a post-peace period of high tension as the world faces the most complex geo-strategic challenges since World War II"

Let us hope that history doesn't repeat. The scariest thing is the amount of money and resources used by so many countries to re-arm and prepare.

it will rhyme ( probably in an appalling parody )

war ( utility ) spending in the current economic climate is financial suicide , especially if on the losing side of an international raiding party

but most of our 'major strategic partners ' are buried in debt and need a scapegoat/distraction to escape the consequences of their fiscal folly .

 

[qldfrog]

Interesting as from my BRICs sources..India

'Silent Invasion': How China's Greatest Covert Operation Fooled The US, Stunned Australia & Shocked The World

The democratic world is bracing for the possibility of Communist China emerging as a global superpower dislodging the United States to take the top slot or at least rise as one of the two poles in geopolitics. As this reality hits them hard, the democracies now realize how deep the inroads made...

eurasiantimes.com

 

[mullokintyre]

Interesting as from my BRICs sources..India

'Silent Invasion': How China's Greatest Covert Operation Fooled The US, Stunned Australia & Shocked The World

The democratic world is bracing for the possibility of Communist China emerging as a global superpower dislodging the United States to take the top slot or at least rise as one of the two poles in geopolitics. As this reality hits them hard, the democracies now realize how deep the inroads made...

eurasiantimes.com

Good read, though i might not agree with some of the analysis and conclusions, its good to get something from a non Chinese Asian perspective, as distinct from a Western perspective.
Mick

 

[Sean K]

Interesting as from my BRICs sources..India

'Silent Invasion': How China's Greatest Covert Operation Fooled The US, Stunned Australia & Shocked The World

The democratic world is bracing for the possibility of Communist China emerging as a global superpower dislodging the United States to take the top slot or at least rise as one of the two poles in geopolitics. As this reality hits them hard, the democracies now realize how deep the inroads made...

eurasiantimes.com

I'm not sure if the author had control over the title of this piece, but if he did he's way off. The Western World has been well aware of what China is doing and it's no surprise to anyone. Hardly 'fooled'.

What we got wrong though was assuming that bringing China into the global society through economic links and development would mean they would open up and become a more liberal and free society. Deadly wrong on that front.

 

[qldfrog]

I'm not sure if the author had control over the title of this piece, but if he did he's way off. The Western World has been well aware of what China is doing and it's no surprise to anyone. Hardly 'fooled'.

What we got wrong though was assuming that bringing China into the global society through economic links and development would mean they would open up and become a more liberal and free society. Deadly wrong on that front.

If it is NOT a surprise and we have not been fooled, then how would you classify the attitude of our leaders here, confusius institute, Dan in Victoria and labour in the last decade, the establishment of CCP police nodes in the west Inc Australia and NZ..
can we talk about treason?

 

[Sean K]

If it is NOT a surprise and we have not been fooled, then how would you classify the attitude of our leaders here, confusius institute, Dan in Victoria and labour in the last decade, the establishment of CCP police nodes in the west Inc Australia and NZ..
can we talk about treason?

Yeah, there's some strange behaviour going on at some levels. Dan's behavior is inexplicable and the Feds should have reigned him in much harder. It's just about the money to him though. Allowing the Port of Darwin to be leased to the Chinese for 99 years is another confounding decision and how that got through the Feds is another mystery. Again, money. And naivety. I'm sure the Confucius Institutes have been closely monitored for a long time and are being shut down aren't they? I'm pretty sure the China desk at ASIO, ASIS, ASD, etc have been appropriately briefing those who need to know what's going on without giving away too much.

 

[JohnDe]

I'm surprised that a Labor government is pushing this so hard. It could mean that China is a bigger concern than most realise, or that we have a mature and responsible government, or both.

"It is important that we recognise that the sort of relationship we had with China and the world when John Howard was in power where we separated our economic and strategic relationships and perspectives, that world has changed,"​

Lose reliance on China, Penny Wong warns exporters

Acting Prime Minister Penny Wong has warned Australian exporters to be less reliant on Chinese trade, as Beijing reviews its tariffs on Australian barley.

Saying she now hoped for a breakthrough on Australian wine, Ms Wong told Sky News that businesses needed to "diversify" to remain resilient.
The Foreign Minister said it was vital to recognise that times had changed when it came to dealing with China on trade.

"It is important that we recognise that the sort of relationship we had with China and the world when John Howard was in power where we separated our economic and strategic relationships and perspectives, that world has changed," she said.

"So we must diversify our export markets, it's an important part of national resilience. So what we have been through in the last couple of years, smart businesses have diversified and we want to continue to encourage that."

Ms Wong told Channel 9 that going forward, Australia and China would not be able to separate their economic and strategic relationship.

“The point is that we’re not going back to where we were 15 years ago,” she said.

“We know that we want a more stable relationship with China. But we know we’re not going to be able to continue to separate our economic and strategic relationship.

“Australian producers – whether barley or wine – are going to have to look to diversify in new markets.”

 

[qldfrog]

And while some low I spend half a trillion buying nuke submarines and f35, some see the light

World's 1st Drone Carrier, Turkey Commissions Its Largest Warship, TCG Anadolu, That Will Fly Deadly Bayraktar TB3 UCAVs

Turkey commissioned its largest warship on April 10 in a much-anticipated inauguration ceremony. The TCG Anadolu, being touted as the world’s first Unmanned Combat Aerial Aircraft (UCAV) carrier, saw the prototype of the latest Bayraktar TB3 sitting on its deck. The ship will be Turkey’s first...

eurasiantimes.com

 

[JohnDe]

And while some low I spend half a trillion buying nuke submarines and f35, some see the light

World's 1st Drone Carrier, Turkey Commissions Its Largest Warship, TCG Anadolu, That Will Fly Deadly Bayraktar TB3 UCAVs

Turkey commissioned its largest warship on April 10 in a much-anticipated inauguration ceremony. The TCG Anadolu, being touted as the world’s first Unmanned Combat Aerial Aircraft (UCAV) carrier, saw the prototype of the latest Bayraktar TB3 sitting on its deck. The ship will be Turkey’s first...

eurasiantimes.com

I presume that you are looking at investing in companies that produce drones for war. Be careful, they have been good at upselling to investors but poor returns.

 

[Sean K]

And while some low I spend half a trillion buying nuke submarines and f35, some see the light

World's 1st Drone Carrier, Turkey Commissions Its Largest Warship, TCG Anadolu, That Will Fly Deadly Bayraktar TB3 UCAVs

Turkey commissioned its largest warship on April 10 in a much-anticipated inauguration ceremony. The TCG Anadolu, being touted as the world’s first Unmanned Combat Aerial Aircraft (UCAV) carrier, saw the prototype of the latest Bayraktar TB3 sitting on its deck. The ship will be Turkey’s first...

eurasiantimes.com

I watched an extended analysis of this today and it seems Turkey are extremely well developed in drones - UAVs etc.

Australia might be better commissioning a third LHD that launches UCAVs like this Turkish ship. It's the same LHD design we have so shouldn't be too hard.

 

[qldfrog]

The real question

 

[qldfrog]

Ok pb to share...will try to find back interview later

 

[JohnDe]

I watched an extended analysis of this today and it seems Turkey are extremely well developed in drones - UAVs etc.

Australia might be better commissioning a third LHD that launches UCAVs like this Turkish ship. It's the same LHD design we have so shouldn't be too hard.

Drones would be helpful.

'Economic coercion' biggest threat facing nation: Marles

Defence Minister Richard Marles says the biggest threat facing Australia in the near future is economic coercion, rather than the possibility of invasion.

Mr Marles said Australia had become "much more reliant" on economic connections than in the past, which opened up new risks.

"Most of the liquid fuels now come from overseas. Back in the '90s, we used to do it all onshore," he told ABC's Insiders.

"So the threat is not that we're about to be invaded, but our exposure to economic coercion… and the potential for that coercion going forward is much more significant.

"That's where the threat lies, and that's why we need to reposture for that."

As a result, the nation needed a Defence Force which had a much greater power to "engage in projection", Mr Marles said.

"So much of what we need to do is beyond our shores, so to have a Defence Force with the capacity for impactful projection across the full spectrum of proportionate response is now what we are seeking to achieve," he said.

It follows the release of the Defence Strategic Review, which warned the Defence Force was currently not fit for purpose.

Mr Marles said the review had prompted the government to "reprioritise" spending for some programs while deciding not to go ahead with others.

"This is an exercise of reshaping our Defence Force. The very notion of that is that there are some capabilities that we need more of, like long range strike missiles, there are some capabilities we don't need as much of going forward," he said.

Mr Marles said the recommendation to reduce the number of infantry fighting vehicles known as Howitzers, was in line with the need to focus on "projection" rather than capabilities that would be "stranded" in Australia.

"We don't have the transport craft which would enable the 450 planned infantry fighting vehicles to leave our shores, so unless you're talking about Australia, the vast number of those would have been stranded here," he said.

"That's an exact example of why we need to be thinking about – what is the threat? What do we need to have a Defence Force for?"

SARAH ISON

 

[Dona Ferentes]

Article in The Economist...

 

[rederob]

Article in The Economist...
View attachment 157343

Looks like Europe, far from being at China's doorstep, have been let inside.
Meanwhile, despite the rhetoric, Australia's imports from China increased some 60% in the 5 years to 2022:

On the other hand, in terms of defence, Australia is playing footies with China via its regular forays into the South China Sea where we apparently need to protect shipping?

 

[JohnDe]

I understand their would be two different views to the concept of China parking a security presents in the Solomon Islands. Personally I say no worry's mate, China's just moving forward and could help the economy of the Solomon Islands. As for military bases I don't look so far into it and I like to stay away from US intel and reference because their a bad cook, can't be trusted. Plus I believe Australia being a monarchy doesn't help our cause or know were it's coming from exactly.
Scomo on the other hand is sh*ting his dipers, and putting money into defence. fair enough do that any way but it doesn't need the war mung a. A influence he picks up from the US. It's all about who's got the biggest weapons with them. NO NEED

Anyone got any views on the matter? What economic implications it has on Australia I don't know besides Scomo...

It's all a big game of Castles.

Beijing huffed and puffed – but couldn’t touch Australia’s strategic resources​

One good thing about the implosion of Australia’s relationship with China was that it taught us an important lesson: our biggest customer is far less powerful than many had feared.

For three years, Beijing huffed and puffed. It has caused ongoing misery for China-dependent Australian wineries and our lobster and timber industries. But those are just garnishes on Australia’s total trade to China. The entree, main course and desert are all strategic resources: iron ore, LNG and, increasingly, lithium.

China’s government didn’t dare touch any of them. Instead, Australian exports to China hit a record $180b in 2021. That may be old news in Australia, but it is still being studied around the world.

“Like a surfer surviving a shark attack with no more than a lightly gnawed board, Australia is now emerging from three years of Chinese bullying in remarkably good shape,” The Economist recently observed.

A second good thing about the collapse of Canberra’s relationship with Beijing is personal. Since 2021, I have been lucky enough to cover the region from Taipei, one of East Asia’s gems.

I still have a soft spot for China’s capital, where I was previously based, but there’s a lot to like about relocating to Taipei. The air here is much cleaner than in Beijing. Police don’t block me from visiting tourist spots because I’m a journalist. VPN headaches are a distant memory. None of my friends here have been put in jail on national security charges.

And ministers in Taiwan’s government accept requests for interviews – something that never happened in China.

Living here has also been a useful education in just how strange Canberra’s relations are with Taipei. The paranoia around a visit by Australian parliamentarians last November was illustrative. Our diplomatic office in Taipei is perhaps the most anti-social in the entire Australian network. No Australian minister has visited since the Rudd-Gillard era.

Gough Whitlam switched recognition from Taipei to Beijing in 1972. Since then Australia has had unofficial relations with Taiwan (which is officially called the Republic of China) – recognising, but always with a flexible ambiguity, Beijing’s claims on the self-governed liberal democracy.

Until Beijing renounces its threat to launch war on Taiwan’s 23 million people if they ever move to become formally independent, Australia’s tortured “One China” formula will remain. Complaining about it is as useless as moaning about Taipei’s humidity. A more productive approach is to pursue mutually beneficial policies within it.

For Australia, the ultimate test of this is Taiwan’s application to join the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP).

Joining would not in any way breach Australia’s “One China” policy. Taiwan would simply follow the path it took to join APEC in 1991, back in the Hawke-Keating era, and the World Trade Organisation in 2002, when John Howard was Prime Minister.

In our interview in his office in Taipei, Taiwan’s Trade Minister John Deng told me his government is not asking for special treatment. It only asks for Taiwan’s application to be assessed on its merits.

Asked about Taiwan’s chances of success, Minister Deng told me: “No one has ever told us to our face, ‘We don’t welcome you’.”

But what do the CPTPP’s members, including Australia, say behind Taiwan’s back?

In all my discussions with officials and politicians from member countries, including Australia, none has ever said they doubted Taiwan’s economy could meet the CPTPP’s high standards. But their fear of Beijing is palpable.

Canberra has good reason to push a serious discussion on Taiwan and China’s applications until after Prime Minister Anthony Albanese’s trip to Beijing, likely in October.

Australia’s vote gives it useful leverage over China, as Canberra pushes for an end to Beijing’s ongoing trade bans on Australian exports and tries to secure the release of Cheng Lei and Dr Yang Hengjun.

Of course, Beijing would suffer an epic outbreak of hurt feelings if the trade group’s members formalised the bleeding obvious and recognise that, right now, Taiwan’s economy is more CPTPP fit than China.

But if Beijing is serious about eventually joining the world’s highest standards trade pact, a campaign of retribution against a merit-based decision by its members wouldn’t seem to be the best response if Taiwan gains admission before China does.

When decision time comes, Canberra should keep in mind the lesson from these bruising, last three years: for all its bluster, China needs us too.

WILL GLASGOW NORTH ASIA CORRESPONDENT