China a Failed State and a Rogue State to the rest of the World

[Value Collector]

To me six of one and half a dozen of the other. i do have a thing about using the name Australian as I would assume that means the product has been sourced from here via import.

Do you have a problem with Tasmanian fish farms that sell “Atlantic Salmon” ? The species is called Atlantic Salmon, but obviously they are growing it in Australia not the Atlantic.

What about Australian Farmers selling “Merino Wool” ? Again that’s the breed of sheep, but it’s not from Spain, that are growing it in Australia

 

[finicky]

Orgasmic - leather-face (Xi) will keep on f'g things up on the home front with his bonehead dictatorial interference in the property market.
Just wondering - Chinese agents and citizens have been long buying Australian property to the detriment of our housing affordability - will there eventually be forced selling by them?
Chinese Growth is finished

Chinese growth is finished

Honestly, Bloomberg is useless on this. China is ramping up pressure on banks to support struggling real estate developers, signaling President Xi Jinping’s tolerance for property sector pain is nearing its limit. Developer stocks and bonds rallied in China this week on bets that authorities may...

www.macrobusiness.com.au

 

[mullokintyre]

It will be a race to see whether Chinas fraudalent banking system collapses before the fraudulent US banking system.
Mick

 

[finicky]

Relax .. they're a paper tiger. They're disintegrating.

 

[qldfrog]

Relax .. they're a paper tiger. They're disintegrating.

@finicky I have no personal angst against you and I am in no way a CCP supporter or denier, go to the left for that. But travel to a main Chinese metropolis: Shanghai Shenzen or even Beijing , then cross the pacif and visit NY or similar, this might change your mind.
Or just remember what happened very recently in Afghanistan , or even the progress made in Ukraine after 200billions..yes 200 billions of direct US funds to partake in a triggered civil war there.
Until the swamp is drained...the US..and the west.is in a very fast downward spiral.
Not critical yet, Reagan managed to redress the crisis as did Thatcher in the UK but so far, we need a serious shift to address that and restore a varnish of democracy, civil liberties and market freedom in the west

 

[joeno]

Relax .. they're a paper tiger. They're disintegrating.

They're quite the opposite of a paper tiger. They're more like a fiery elk lol.

Anyone who thinks everything over there is a fake and African/Indian quality is deluding themselves. One thing they're good at is building stuff and they're arguably the best in the world at building. Whether it's world class quality - in most cases no. But they're pretty fast at building.

Anyone who thinks they have world conquest ambitions is ignorant of all of history. They're about as inward looking and non-confrontational as a nation of their size can be (as discussed between Elon and Lex ). Even India with about 1/3 their GDP and land size is much more ramped up with nationalistic propaganda and militaristic inclination. With HK, Taiwan, Tibet etc their view (whether justified or not) is to preserve their borders rather than to dominate others. I'm not saying this as a compliment: their over-defensiveness with the Mongols and Manchus led to their downfall.

 

[finicky]

Mongols and Manchus .. they weren't a commie totalitarian state then ffs. It's an evil tofu dreg society unravelling. China "non confrontational" - who are you - Penny Wong?

 

[finicky]

@qldfrog I have no need to travel to those benighted lands. I form my insightful opinions from the vantage of my mattress in my wi-fied bedroom.

 

[qldfrog]

@qldfrog I have no need to travel to those benighted lands. I form my insightful opinions from the vantage of my mattress in my wi-fied bedroom.

And you swallow the Xi story sacking generals left and right for corruption and purposely filling rockets with water.so we are supposed to discount Chinese army power, and as for their economy, as their age pyramid is screwed , so they are not to be feared and can keep their trade tariff discounts
We in the west are sucked dry by cunning long term schemers from the middle kingdom, and swallow baits hooks and sinkers ..

 

[finicky]

purposely filling rockets with water

Tsk tsk, so wrong. The correct narrative is they're filled with water for ballast because the crims have stolen the fuel! I remind you that this thread is reserved for anti CCP China bigots.

 

[Sean K]

China is limited by geography and isn't going anywhere unless they take over some countries outside of East Asia. The only expansion prospects are Taiwan and the SCS, which they might get if they work it well while the US is occupied elsewhere. But, SE Asia might not even allow it. Who is next?

It's going to be very very interesting how they respond to the Taiwan election. The ambassador saying we were going over the edge of an abyss, or something, if we supported democracy is quite concerning.

 

[qldfrog]

China is limited by geography and isn't going anywhere unless they take over some countries outside of East Asia. The only expansion prospects are Taiwan and the SCS, which they might get if they work it well while the US is occupied elsewhere. But, SE Asia might not even allow it. Who is next?

It's going to be very very interesting how they respond to the Taiwan election. The ambassador saying we were going over the edge of an abyss, or something, if we supported democracy is quite concerning.

This argument imho is valid as long as you subscribe to the current scenario of what is strength: aircraft carriers to support OS expeditions and secure shipping lanes etc..the past US model but in my view this century will see emergence of a new type of strength, power thru economic, hacking, Satellites and deals.
With Ukraine conflict, we gift China empire new borders from Sebastopol to Vladivostok,South China sea.
Direct land access to 2/3 if not 4/5th of the world population and all resources you can dream of.
The EU and US are self collapsing from within...
China will not replace the US, it will be part of a loose coalition doing that job..turkey Iran Russia India and later on Mexico once US empires cracks.
Alliances will shift and it will be more dangerous world.
We, in Australia, will hopefully play no role and be like Brazil/Argentina of the 20yh century.
The alternative is we side with he loser and go with a bang ..in the capital cities and a protectorate from Indonesia in the northern half voted in by our genuine owners as in occupied PNG..
I hopefully will not be around to see that.
The imports of raw materials/energy from Russia and Mongolia into India and China last year has been over the moon.
Interesting geopolitics but better lived from afar...we are too near

 

[divs4ever]

This argument imho is valid as long as you subscribe to the current scenario of what is strength: aircraft carriers to support OS expeditions and secure shipping lanes etc..the past US model but in my view this century will see emergence of a new type of strength, power thru economic, hacking, Satellites and deals.
With Ukraine conflict, we gift China empire new borders from Sebastopol to Vladivostok,South China sea.
Direct land access to 2/3 if not 4/5th of the world population and all resources you can dream of.
The EU and US are self collapsing from within...
China will not replace the US, it will be part of a loose coalition doing that job..turkey Iran Russia India and later on Mexico once US empires cracks.
Alliances will shift and it will be more dangerous world.
We, in Australia, will hopefully play no role and be like Brazil/Argentina of the 20yh century.
The alternative is we side with he loser and go with a bang ..in the capital cities and a protectorate from Indonesia in the northern half voted in by our genuine owners as in occupied PNG..
I hopefully will not be around to see that.
The imports of raw materials/energy from Russia and Mongolia into India and China last year has been over the moon.
Interesting geopolitics but better lived from afar...we are too near

am not so sure about 'empire ' , but a fair chance of a solid alliance ( as trading partners )

i note the Bangladesh is building better relations with India ( which i see as a good thing )

 

[qldfrog]

am not so sure about 'empire ' , but a fair chance of a solid alliance ( as trading partners )

i note the Bangladesh is building better relations with India ( which i see as a good thing )

Indeed
And sharing the overall view expressed here:

Escobar: Year Of The Dragon - Silk Roads, BRICS Roads, & Sino-Roads | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

I do not care the media or credential of author but that is in a nutshell my view of what is happening.
I do not rejoice but this is what it is, and no one asks my advice/opinion when destroying our democratic west for a few extra dollars

 

[joeno]

Mongols and Manchus .. they weren't a commie totalitarian state then ffs. It's an evil tofu dreg society unravelling. China "non confrontational" - who are you - Penny Wong?

Either you're Indian or someone who's bored/angry in life and wants to randomly take it out on some random geopolitical nemesis you have no idea about. Mongolians (as in Ghenghis Khans hordes) weren't communist 1000 ago? What are you even talking about evil tofu dreg society? Please tell me that wasn't intended to be racist as it's more humorous than serious

Anyways my point is there is no utility in throwing such rhetoric around other than pleasing the US/Indian in their little race of geopolitical dominance. In terms of the future for Australians, I believe India will be the greatest threat if you look at Cananada and how successful they are in self promotion. China will probably will never be a military threat to anyone let alone Australia. All they can do is stop trading with us when we make threats or criticize or talk down on them (e.g. bringing up human rights ad nauseum). Thich will hurt our economy a bit and we don't gain anything from it. So there really is no point to even bring them up in regular discourse as we do. Just smile, do business, make some money selling minerals to China and let it be.

 

[divs4ever]

the Mongols were probably communists ( note the small 'c' ) as they lived is smallish communes most of the time ( that is very different to a Communist Government )

( i see small autonomous communes as an option which has merits )

why would China invade , when they can buy key assets/infrastructure ( like the universities ) and infiltrate/indoctrinate the target nations ( several nations are already enslaved to the love of money/debt )

all China needs to do is become the manufacturing/processing hub of the world , the rest flows like profits into a bank account

 

[joeno]

the Mongols were probably communists ( note the small 'c' ) as they lived is smallish communes most of the time ( that is very different to a Communist Government )

( i see small autonomous communes as an option which has merits )

why would China invade , when they can buy key assets/infrastructure ( like the universities ) and infiltrate/indoctrinate the target nations ( several nations are already enslaved to the love of money/debt )

all China needs to do is become the manufacturing/processing hub of the world , the rest flows like profits into a bank account

Stop being ridiculous. Communism is a political ideology that didn't exist until Marx. If it existed during the times of the Mongols, the C(c)ommunist ideology wouldn't be attributed to Marx.

They have no religion/strong belief to indoctrinate other societies with. Since Mao died, China hasn't even tried to indoctrinate other countries on communism. And I suspect they never really wanted to.

Yeah they "target" countries for financial gain, mostly through trade. Definitely not militarily or doing something like enslaving a population that would have militaristic repercussions. They are so apathetic to external affairs it resulted in 100 years of stagnation in the 19th century. When the Indonesians and Cambodians were ethnic cleansing all of their Chinese population in the 1960s/1970s, China did literally nothing lol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide -. "The government of the People's Republic of China did not protest against the killings of ethnic Chinese in Cambodia"

I can understand why a country like India would be spiteful because they want to replace China as the world's factory. I would argue if that were to happen the world would be a worse place - just look at happened when Indians/South Asians replaced all the taxi drivers, customer service, CEOs, prime ministers etc. And the US because they want to maintain their position in the world. However for a country like Australia there is nothing to gain by being a "crusader against China". We lose out on trade and gain nothing other than a kudos from America. It's pointless.

 

[qldfrog]

Nauru just stopped diplomatic ties with Taiwan....
Not a bullet shot...
In relation to previous discussion about economy vs weapon power.
As a note:
I feel for the Taiwanese people I always found much kinder, deeper and culturally aware than most of my mainland Chinese friends.
Probably because they were spared the cultural revolution and various famines in the last century
I wish I had a solution there but do not hold much hope long term...

 

[finicky]

Yeah Morrison, it was no surprise to you, just everyone else. They told you they were coming and it was reciprocal - our ships visited them and would have presented a military power projection as well. It was just a stop over.

 

[divs4ever]

Stop being ridiculous. Communism is a political ideology that didn't exist until Marx. If it existed during the times of the Mongols, the C(c)ommunist ideology wouldn't be attributed to Marx.

They have no religion/strong belief to indoctrinate other societies with. Since Mao died, China hasn't even tried to indoctrinate other countries on communism. And I suspect they never really wanted to.

Yeah they "target" countries for financial gain, mostly through trade. Definitely not militarily or doing something like enslaving a population that would have militaristic repercussions. They are so apathetic to external affairs it resulted in 100 years of stagnation in the 19th century. When the Indonesians and Cambodians were ethnic cleansing all of their Chinese population in the 1960s/1970s, China did literally nothing lol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide -. "The government of the People's Republic of China did not protest against the killings of ethnic Chinese in Cambodia"

I can understand why a country like India would be spiteful because they want to replace China as the world's factory. I would argue if that were to happen the world would be a worse place - just look at happened when Indians/South Asians replaced all the taxi drivers, customer service, CEOs, prime ministers etc. And the US because they want to maintain their position in the world. However for a country like Australia there is nothing to gain by being a "crusader against China". We lose out on trade and gain nothing other than a kudos from America. It's pointless.

far from ridiculous , just highlighting how far the English language has been secularized and butchered

the capital letter at the front converts it to a political ideology and a potential vehicle for a government abuse/agenda

democracy is great but Democratic parties very often are not

the Chinese might not have interrupted in Cambodia but the ( Communist ) Vietnamese Government did and was thanked with heavy losses , maybe the Chinese were smarter , as opposed to 'caring ' after all they were still discretely supporting North Korea

regarding indoctrination , who invests large amounts into Western Universities ??

sometimes you can just buy useful idiots