Cashless society

[qldfrog]

Looks like the local drug dealers will now only accept EFTPOS and bitcoin payments

When people want to abandon cash to enforce control, I expect dealers and shady businesses to lead the surge of phone to phone apps sending either money, points or cryptos..redeemable for goods in a way or another or just barters
I send you 25 "insert my video game" coins, and you can use them to have 50 run at the jackpot machine app etc etc

 

[farmerge]

When people want to abandon cash to enforce control, I expect dealers and shady businesses to lead the surge of phone to phone apps sending either money, points or cryptos..redeemable for goods in a way or another or just barters
I send you 25 "insert my video game" coins, and you can use them to have 50 run at the jackpot machine app etc etc

@qldfrog Perhaps Barter Card may come back with a vengeance.
I came across this form of financial dealings some years ago, but it certainly didn't appeal to me.

 

[Value Collector]

When people want to abandon cash to enforce control, I expect dealers and shady businesses to lead the surge of phone to phone apps sending either money, points or cryptos..redeemable for goods in a way or another or just barters
I send you 25 "insert my video game" coins, and you can use them to have 50 run at the jackpot machine app etc etc

See, that’s a cynical thought process, you are assuming that people are moving away from cash because they want to enforce control, and not just because it’s more user friendly and cheaper. and all you can think about is the negatives, and not the positives.

The move away from cash has been steadily happening for years, lead by consumers.

There has already been Barter Card and other systems for decades, they mostly fail, and are taxable anyway, and the people running them always want their fees in real money.

 

[SirRumpole]

The move away from cash has been steadily happening for years, lead by consumers.

Yes and no.

There is a limit of $10k on cash transactions by law designed to prevent money laundering, but I agree that consumers find it easier to use cards than to carry large amounts of cash.

Limiting cash to $10,000 is more dangerous than you might think

Ordinary activities would become criminalised without a compelling reason.

theconversation.com

Of course , all your transactions are available to be hacked and put on the dark web, so it's a risk.

 

[Value Collector]

Yes and no.

There is a limit of $10k on cash transactions by law designed to prevent money laundering, but I agree that consumers find it easier to use cards than to carry large amounts of cash.

Limiting cash to $10,000 is more dangerous than you might think

Ordinary activities would become criminalised without a compelling reason.

theconversation.com

Of course , all your transactions are available to be hacked and put on the dark web, so it's a risk.

The senate killed that Bill that was going to make it illegal to use cash for more that $10,000 transactions didn’t they?

but how much easier is it just to do an Internet transfer for $10,000, if some one paid me $10k in cash, well then I have to drive to a bank and deposit it, I would much rather them just do a direct deposit.

Senate kills cash bill

 

[JohnDe]

Yes and no.

There is a limit of $10k on cash transactions by law designed to prevent money laundering, but I agree that consumers find it easier to use cards than to carry large amounts of cash.

Limiting cash to $10,000 is more dangerous than you might think

Ordinary activities would become criminalised without a compelling reason.

theconversation.com

Of course , all your transactions are available to be hacked and put on the dark web, so it's a risk.

Yes, our financial systems still have a way to go before it is fool proof.

the temporary crippling of one of Australia’s mega funds raises questions around the industry’s increasing reliance on external services, according to Monash University professor of cybersecurity Nigel Phair.​

Fallout from UniSuper’s tech wipeout at the touch of a button

A major outage that crippled UniSuper for more than a week has exposed a serious vulnerability in Australia’s retirement system. If a fund’s entire set-up can be wiped out at the touch of a button, just how safe is our super?

The prudential regulator and federal government are surely wondering the same thing following the outage which was caused, if you can believe it, by tech giant Google accidentally deleting UniSuper’s entire subscription on its cloud service.

To be clear, the $125bn UniSuper invests on behalf of its members was not at risk, just the member data, including balances.

Not only were UniSuper’s more than 600,000 members not able to access their accounts, for 10 days they were also unable to switch their investments or make withdrawal requests. The system was back up and running on May 13.

Good thing the outage didn’t occur during a financial crash. Just a few years ago, in March 2020, funds were swamped by members wanting to switch to cash as markets suffered double digit losses over a matter of days.

It’s all about cost​

Super funds have been on a multi-year mission to bring down costs by moving investment teams in-house while outsourcing IT infrastructure.

But the temporary crippling of one of Australia’s mega funds raises questions around the industry’s increasing reliance on external services, according to Monash University professor of cybersecurity Nigel Phair.

“You’ve got these big top-tier multinationals. You’ve got Amazon, Microsoft and, in this case, Google. People go to them because they think they’re buying scale, size, professionalism and security,” Phair tells The Weekend Australian.

“The reality is (Google) deleted – twice – the information of a very, very large corporate. If it wasn’t for UniSuper having a third backup with another provider, I don’t know what they’d do.”

In erasing the subscription, Google knocked out the fail-safe UniSuper had put in place to protect against an outage. The fund had duplicated its data in two different geographies but this was rendered useless when the tech giant hit the delete button.

Google Cloud this month deleted UniSuper’s entire subscription in error. Picture: Ronny Hartmann / AFP

Luckily, a third backstop in place with an additional service provider prevented the data being lost for good. This allowed the system to be restored – though it took more than a week to get everything back online.

All of the major funds have outsourced at least some of their IT operations to these big cloud providers. The problem is, once you’ve done that, it’s near impossible to go back.

“Once that genie’s out of the bottle, the effort required to then go back and build storage infrastructure, and everything around that is too great. Once you’ve outsourced, that’s it, you’re never going to insource,” Phair says.

UniSuper is now conducting a full review of the incident. Other funds are surely also looking at their risk processes and service agreements with cloud providers.

While APRA has been publicly quiet on the issue, saying only that it was “monitoring the situation” through the outage, there’s no doubt the regulator will be turning the screws on funds to up their risk processes.

A new prudential standard coming into effect next year will boost their efforts, with banks, insurers and super funds from mid-2025 required to enhance third-party risk management to guard against what UniSuper has just been through.

“In an environment where one crashed server or ransomware attack can leave potentially millions of Australians without access to funds, the ability to mitigate operational risks is essential for financial stability and community wellbeing,” APRA member Therese McCarthy Hockey said last year of the new standard.

“Information security has too often been seen by boards as a technology risk and not an overall business risk. Rather than leaving cyber resilience to the IT and cybersecurity departments, boards need to become much more tech savvy and alert to how the threats have changed.”

All-hazards approach​

Cybersecurity, that is, protecting against malicious attacks, is critical for these big money machines, but an “all-hazards approach” would serve them better, Phair says.

“We talk about someone hacking into data and why you’ve got to have backups and it all has to be encrypted. So we’ve got all these controls. But there’s lots of scenarios that are non-malicious. We genuinely need organisations not to just think about the Russians and Chinese or North Korean hackers, but also about an all-hazards approach.”

The government is acutely aware of the reliance big super has on external providers and looks to be taking a ‘no excuses’ line in its messaging following UniSuper’s outage.

“The Government has made it clear to super funds that they need to lift customer service standards. It may be appropriate to use external services, but members and the government will hold trustees responsible for how they serve their members,” Assistant Treasurer Stephen Jones told The Weekend Australian.

“Funds cannot outsource the responsibility to uphold service standards.”

Assistant Treasurer and Minister for Financial Services, Stephen Jones, says funds need to lift their standards. Picture: NCA NewsWire / Martin Ollman

The government, for its part, is focused on tackling scams at the banks, telcos and social media platforms, leaving the heavy lifting on risk management in the super sector to the regulator.

But targeting scams at the banks and telcos will see scammers move down the chain, heaping even greater pressure on super funds, Mr Jones confirmed this week.

“What we know through the intel we have on criminal behaviour, and the way fraud behaviour works, is once you lock down one sector, it’ll move to another,” Jones said.

“(This is) signalling to the funds industry: don’t wait for the government to update your processes and securities. Once we square this off (with banks, telcos and social media), we will absolutely look to other risk areas within the economy that we need to uplift standards.”

 

[Value Collector]

I read a few stories of a house invasion, theft of car keys + abduction of the owner for a 1 way trip to the atm, no option of here is my wallet take it all and leave plz

why are they abducting the person??? to get CASH !!!!

In a cashless society, where there was no ATM’s dispensing cash, the Crim would have no incentive to abduct you. So in your example cash is the problem.

 

[againsthegrain]

why are they abducting the person??? to get CASH !!!!

In a cashless society, where there was no ATM’s dispensing cash, the Crim would have no incentive to abduct you. So in your example cash is the problem.

No atms? no worries... straight to the shops

Kieren, a primary school teacher, said the man sat in the back seat with her daughter, before forcing her to drive to electrical stores on the South Gippsland Highway in Cranbourne and Frankston-Dandenong Road in Dandenong.

'I remember begging': Mum describes knifepoint abduction with baby in the car

www.9news.com.au

 

[farmerge]

With the abduction of this woman and her very young baby, there is only one answer for this creton, and I would be more than happy to administer the exacting punishment upon him. Also, I would guarantee that he would not even ever think of trying something like this again.
I guess there are those that would come out swinging in his defence, had an unhappy childhood, never had toys to play with, because someone has something I want it. etc etc.

 

[Value Collector]

No atms? no worries... straight to the shops

Kieren, a primary school teacher, said the man sat in the back seat with her daughter, before forcing her to drive to electrical stores on the South Gippsland Highway in Cranbourne and Frankston-Dandenong Road in Dandenong.

'I remember begging': Mum describes knifepoint abduction with baby in the car

www.9news.com.au

Hahaha, that’s line of crime has to be much less appealing for criminals, the chances of being caught are so much higher.

I have no doubt that a move away from cash has been a major cause of the down ward trend in robberies, which have fallen by 75% in the past 24 years.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

yep, everything's dandy

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/world/inside-asias-online-scam-factories-torture-slavery-rape-and-australians-losing-millions/news-story/fba56de24446e6446dc77c8e00a87c58

...
.....As a new recruit Rudi would spend his first week in what he describes as “scam university”, learning about the Australian banking system, Australian culture, how to connect with Australians on Facebook, WhatsApp and dating sites such as Tindr and Bumble. “They told us about Australian bank rules so we could advise people how to take out loans for crypto currency investments, about the behaviour of Australians, Americans, Europeans – that Australians and Americans like to spend money,” he tells The Weekend Australian. “I still thought then they were just introducing the company marketing." ...

 

[Value Collector]

yep, everything's dandy

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/world/inside-asias-online-scam-factories-torture-slavery-rape-and-australians-losing-millions/news-story/fba56de24446e6446dc77c8e00a87c58

...
.....As a new recruit Rudi would spend his first week in what he describes as “scam university”, learning about the Australian banking system, Australian culture, how to connect with Australians on Facebook, WhatsApp and dating sites such as Tindr and Bumble. “They told us about Australian bank rules so we could advise people how to take out loans for crypto currency investments, about the behaviour of Australians, Americans, Europeans – that Australians and Americans like to spend money,” he tells The Weekend Australian. “I still thought then they were just introducing the company marketing." ...

I am definitely not saying everything is Dandy, there will always be crime, and the more we go digital the more crime will move away from physical assaults, robberies, and pick pocketing and to more scams.

Most people, without even thinking much about it take certain precautions to make them selves less open to face to face robberies and assaults, society is just in the transition of learning How to take similar precautions when it comes to scams etc.

 

[againsthegrain]

Hahaha, that’s line of crime has to be much less appealing for criminals, the chances of being caught are so much higher.

I have no doubt that a move away from cash has been a major cause of the down ward trend in robberies, which have fallen by 75% in the past 24 years.

I think your approaching it from the outside view not actually having experience in these situations.

It is the same as when cars started to be made keyless car thefts by hot wiring went practically to 0% while house invasions which involve physical theft of keys with the use of violence went up roughly the same % as the previous down.

You are approaching it from a logical and practical point of view, how you or me might see it and go its not worth it. A crack head on meth on a high won't be going home to jump on google and do a scam

 

[JohnDe]

Only cash was useable.

I had another interesting cashless world episode. Friday evening my brother & I arrived at our parents beach home, we are sorting the place out after being unused for a long period, my father had been unwell and passed away. My mother wants to spend more time there with the family but it needs some TLC.

The home is in a small coastal town about 2.5 hours from the city. We arrived at about 8pm, had a late dinner and then started sending text messages and making phone calls to our family to say that we had arrived safely.

However, we ran into a snag, the internet and cellular network was. down. The house both our phones, my phone and my brothers laptop dongle were useless for communication purposes.

At around 9:30pm we decided to got to the pub, only to find that the whole town had lost communication with the outside world. No connection with any provider. The Pubs EFTPOS was out, only cash was useable. The publican said that he had lost about 75% of business becasue customers did not have cash, which meant the pub had to close at 10pm on a usually busy Friday night.

Saturday morning was pretty much the same, except I was able o call land lines from my mobile, but not mobile to mobile. The pub and shops had limited access, which allowed them to accept EFTPOS with a few attempts.

By 9:30pm Saturday everything was back to normal.

 

[divs4ever]

Only cash was useable.

I had another interesting cashless world episode. Friday evening my brother & I arrived at our parents beach home, we are sorting the place out after being unused for a long period, my father had been unwell and passed away. My mother wants to spend more time there with the family but it needs some TLC.

The home is in a small coastal town about 2.5 hours from the city. We arrived at about 8pm, had a late dinner and then started sending text messages and making phone calls to our family to say that we had arrived safely.

However, we ran into a snag, the internet and cellular network was. down. The house both our phones, my phone and my brothers laptop dongle were useless for communication purposes.

At around 9:30pm we decided to got to the pub, only to find that the whole town had lost communication with the outside world. No connection with any provider. The Pubs EFTPOS was out, only cash was useable. The publican said that he had lost about 75% of business becasue customers did not have cash, which meant the pub had to close at 10pm on a usually busy Friday night.

Saturday morning was pretty much the same, except I was able o call land lines from my mobile, but not mobile to mobile. The pub and shops had limited access, which allowed them to accept EFTPOS with a few attempts.

By 9:30pm Saturday everything was back to normal.

another reason this farm had the copper-wire phone line reconnected ( for medical emergencies and such )

all the fancy stuff is nice , but sometimes old and reliable is all that works

 

[farmerge]

another reason this farm had the copper-wire phone line reconnected ( for medical emergencies and such )

all the fancy stuff is nice , but sometimes old and reliable is all that works

@divs4ever Same for us.
When we had NBN hooked up they tech tried his best to get me to have the landline hooked into it.
Nah said She and Me.
At least if the tower goes down, we will still have the copper wire connection.
A few months later massive bush fire and guess what the only connection was the copper wire.

 

[JohnDe]

@divs4ever & @farmerge, I thought that all the copper networks had been shut down. I know that my parents kept the beach house connected to the copper landline as long as possible, but they eventually got notification that it was being shut down. No one in the Town has a copper line that works, we know because it i a small town and you get to know your neighbours. The copper line is still connected to the house, but there is no signal.

Same with my business, several years ago Telstra told me that the copper lines were being shut down and if I didn't go to the NBN system I wouldn't have a phone.

My parents had different providers because of cost and reliability. Mum stayed with Optus, the pricing was very good. And even though Telstra was more expensive, Dad went with them because Telstra had better range, he could use the phone when out fishing on his boat, and when mum didn't have coverage on land dad did.

However, every so often all networks would go down. Usually for a few hours but there have been the odd occasions where it has been several days.

I didn't mind too much, my brother and I just got on with getting things done.

Though, the strange thing is that on the Friday night there was no service at all, just a deadline. On the Saturday if anyone tried to call me my phone would not ring but I'd get a was a message from Telstra that I had missed a call, and it would list the name or number depending on if it was in my contacts. If I tried calling, I would get one ring and then nothing, If I tried sending a message it would fail.

My staff at work were trying to call me, so I tried calling from my mobile to the business land line, which is a NBN landline, and I got through to them. And that is how I ended up contacting my mother who had been trying to call me, I called her NBN landline and got through to her.

However, there was no saving grace for the shops and the pubs EFTPOS facilities, they went down on Friday and did not work again until Saturday. The Pub lost a lot of revenue from the restaurant area, as that is their biggest earner, and had to close early.

Cash is king.

 

[wayneL]

@divs4ever & @farmerge, I thought that all the copper networks had been shut down. I know that my parents kept the beach house connected to the copper landline as long as possible, but they eventually got notification that it was being shut down. No one in the Town has a copper line that works, we know because it i a small town and you get to know your neighbours. The copper line is still connected to the house, but there is no signal.

Same with my business, several years ago Telstra told me that the copper lines were being shut down and if I didn't go to the NBN system I wouldn't have a phone.

My parents had different providers because of cost and reliability. Mum stayed with Optus, the pricing was very good. And even though Telstra was more expensive, Dad went with them because Telstra had better range, he could use the phone when out fishing on his boat, and when mum didn't have coverage on land dad did.

However, every so often all networks would go down. Usually for a few hours but there have been the odd occasions where it has been several days.

I didn't mind too much, my brother and I just got on with getting things done.

Though, the strange thing is that on the Friday night there was no service at all, just a deadline. On the Saturday if anyone tried to call me my phone would not ring but I'd get a was a message from Telstra that I had missed a call, and it would list the name or number depending on if it was in my contacts. If I tried calling, I would get one ring and then nothing, If I tried sending a message it would fail.

My staff at work were trying to call me, so I tried calling from my mobile to the business land line, which is a NBN landline, and I got through to them. And that is how I ended up contacting my mother who had been trying to call me, I called her NBN landline and got through to her.

However, there was no saving grace for the shops and the pubs EFTPOS facilities, they went down on Friday and did not work again until Saturday. The Pub lost a lot of revenue from the restaurant area, as that is their biggest earner, and had to close early.

Cash is king.

Imagine a major outage, Emp or something like what happened in Auckland a few years ago.

 

[farmerge]

@divs4ever & @farmerge, I thought that all the copper networks had been shut down. I know that my parents kept the beach house connected to the copper landline as long as possible, but they eventually got notification that it was being shut down. No one in the Town has a copper line that works, we know because it i a small town and you get to know your neighbours. The copper line is still connected to the house, but there is no signal.

Same with my business, several years ago Telstra told me that the copper lines were being shut down and if I didn't go to the NBN system I wouldn't have a phone.

My parents had different providers because of cost and reliability. Mum stayed with Optus, the pricing was very good. And even though Telstra was more expensive, Dad went with them because Telstra had better range, he could use the phone when out fishing on his boat, and when mum didn't have coverage on land dad did.

However, every so often all networks would go down. Usually for a few hours but there have been the odd occasions where it has been several days.

I didn't mind too much, my brother and I just got on with getting things done.

Though, the strange thing is that on the Friday night there was no service at all, just a deadline. On the Saturday if anyone tried to call me my phone would not ring but I'd get a was a message from Telstra that I had missed a call, and it would list the name or number depending on if it was in my contacts. If I tried calling, I would get one ring and then nothing, If I tried sending a message it would fail.

My staff at work were trying to call me, so I tried calling from my mobile to the business land line, which is a NBN landline, and I got through to them. And that is how I ended up contacting my mother who had been trying to call me, I called her NBN landline and got through to her.

However, there was no saving grace for the shops and the pubs EFTPOS facilities, they went down on Friday and did not work again until Saturday. The Pub lost a lot of revenue from the restaurant area, as that is their biggest earner, and had to close early.

Cash is king.

@JohnDe The supposed reason for us still being able to have the copper wire is because of the area we live in.
One of the highest fire danger zones around and there is no guarantee that the tower batters will fail in an emergency, as they have a couple of times.
The back-up batteries were flat each time.

 

[divs4ever]

@divs4ever Same for us.
When we had NBN hooked up they tech tried his best to get me to have the landline hooked into it.
Nah said She and Me.
At least if the tower goes down, we will still have the copper wire connection.
A few months later massive bush fire and guess what the only connection was the copper wire.

fixed wireless here for the main stuff

and guess what could go wrong ... ( lightning strike .. twice )