Cashless society

[frugal.rock]

Cash is not redundant or a backup system.
It's a parallel system and a requirement for national and sovereign security.

Just think, if all banks E facilities were down for say, 3 days.
What a crap fight it would be for the herds.

For me, the old merchant saying still applies,
"In God I trust, all others pay cash".

 

[Dona Ferentes]

For me, the old merchant saying still applies,
"In God I trust, all others pay cash".

Yep, a handshake is not worth the paper it's written on.

 

[wayneL]

Yep, a handshake is not worth the paper it's written on.

Yeah, include me out of that.

 

[farmerge]

Just another minor issue -

Commonwealth Bank outage leaves customers unable to access money, use CommBank online​

The Commonwealth Bank has apologised to its customers after a major glitch left them unable to make purchases with their bank cards or access their accounts for hours.

Key points:​

• The bank says a "technical problem" prevented people from transferring money and paying bills
• Some customers were unable to pay for fuel or doctor's appointments with their cards
• Services started being restored in the afternoon, Commonwealth Bank said

Customers received error messages when trying to use the NetBank online banking service and the CommBank mobile app.

Some told the ABC it meant they could not pay for essentials like fuel, medications or rent.

Some users also reported problems accessing the bank's financial services arm, CommSec, and other said direct debits for bill payments failed.

Bundaberg woman Jade Bury's card kept declining at a doctor's appointment this morning.

When she contacted the bank's customer service team via Facebook, she was advised to try borrowing money from family or friends.

"I'm just absolutely livid. I don't think it's good enough," she said.


View attachment 158677Jade Bury was told to ask friends or family for help until the banking issue was resolved.(Supplied)
Ms Bury could not pay for her appointment, and she said she would have to go without medication she needs for a bad infection caused by tonsillitis.
"I had to walk away and say I can't pay for my appointment because I didn't have the funds," she said.
"I couldn't access anything … it's quite frustrating."

What caused the CommBank outage, and when will it be fixed?​

A spokesperson told the ABC said the outage was caused by an update to an "internal application" used by the bank, which then caused a problem with a server.

In an update posted at 4:00pm AEST, the bank apologised to customers and said:


Some customers told the ABC they started regaining access to their online accounts in the afternoon, and others were able to make payWave purchases after lunchtime.

However, some users still reported issues across the afternoon.

View attachment 158678These complaints on Twitter were all made after 4:00pm.(Twitter)
According to Downdetector, which tracks online outages, hundreds of people were still logging problems with the website and mobile app as of 3:00pm.

Commonwealth Bank did not answer the ABC's questions about how many customers were affected.

The bank is Australia's largest, with more than 15 million customers across a range of services.

About 7.7 million people use the CommBank app, the bank said on its website last month.

Bank branches were open today, but the bank warned customers that they would be busy.

View attachment 158679A sign said there was a limit on cash withdrawals.(ABC News: Emily Laurence)
A sign tacked to the window of a Sydney branch said cash withdrawals were being limited to $300 per customer.

Commonwealth bank customers 'livid' after payments decline​

Many customers told the ABC they did not know about the banking outage until they tried to pay for something.

Christopher Curr, who runs a lawn and garden business in Cairns, found out about the outage at the bowser this morning.

"Wasn't able to pay on the card, just kept declining, even though I know there's funds in there so I ended up just paying with cash just to obviously get me through" he told the ABC.

"If I didn't have cash on me, I would've been stuck at the fuel station ... that would have been a nightmare."

He said he did not know if his clients could pay him, and he could not buy material he needed for work.

"I've tried to order mulch for a job on Wednesday — same kind of thing, card kept declining," he said.

"So I'm hopeful it's going to get fixed either today or tomorrow so I can order those materials to do my job."

Ms Bury believes the bank should have notified customers directly via text message, email or the banking app, so that "people like me aren't going to get a shock when we're trying to pay for something".

She plans on changing banks as soon as she can and believes many could join her.

View attachment 158680Customers sent the ABC screenshots of the error message they received in the CommBank app.(Supplied)
Other customers have also taken to social media to air their frustrations, with several sharing Mr Curr's experience of being unable to pay for fuel.

"I am stuck at a petrol station and cannot pay for fuel!!!! My app is not working - how should I pay??? I cannot use my own money, what a disgrace CBA," one Twitter user said.

Earlier in the day, customers calling the bank's telephone banking service were greeted with this pre-recorded message:


Gerard Brody, the chairperson of the Consumers' Federation of Australia, said the technical outage highlighted some of the problems with moving to a cashless society.

"People are reliant on banks to make sure they have their systems right so it's incumbent on banks to compensate people not only for any financial loss, but any severe inconvenience as well," he said.

"I hope that in due course there is a full explanation from the Commonwealth Bank."

In the coming days with ComBank will "Silence be Golden"????
Unfortunately we bank with a subsidiary of this lot who I don't have much love for.

 

[Craton]

So for cash in any form of "plastic fantastic", any outage however long or short, is more than a inconvenience.
Forces the consumer to consider having two or more banking sources of "plastic cash" cards.

Cash is, was and always will be king.

 

[qldfrog]

So for cash in any form of "plastic fantastic", any outage however long or short, is more than a inconvenience.
Forces the consumer to consider having two or more banking sources of "plastic cash" cards.

Cash is, was and always will be king.

Petrol station this morning, cash only due to internet outage..
ANZ was the one based on my talk with the operator..
Paid cash...

 

[Craton]

To add to my post above. No amount of plastic will be of any use if the connected world is disconnected.

 

[JohnDe]

So for cash in any form of "plastic fantastic", any outage however long or short, is more than a inconvenience.
Forces the consumer to consider having two or more banking sources of "plastic cash" cards.

Cash is, was and always will be king.

One day there will be a cashless society, but not in my lifetime and possibly not in my children's lifetime. The world will need a system that is able to show and transfer funds between consumer and business, regardless of electrical failures, computer crashes, software bugs, and system outages. Possibly a digital wallet, which are around but there is no world standard.

Until then, financial systems are going to be under pressure to compensate customers.

"Consumers' Federation of Australia call for compensation to be paid to customers and consumers that have been inconvenienced" -

 

[Value Collector]

So for cash in any form of "plastic fantastic", any outage however long or short, is more than a inconvenience.
Forces the consumer to consider having two or more banking sources of "plastic cash" cards.
.

Is it any real difference to an ATM outage?

I mean if once every 5 years you might suffer a period where your card doesn't work, and you decide you need to have a back up card. Is that any difference to a cash based person realising that sometimes the ATM's are down, so they decide they need to carry some back up amount of cash? in case the morning they want to do their groceries happens to be the morning they intended to get some cash out of the ATM.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

Must say I've upped cash to $250 carried and a grand under the bed.

 

[Craton]

Is it any real difference to an ATM outage?

ATM outage singular or across the network can be mitigated by using another provider, e.g., bank or supermarket or post office etc or having cash is the sky rocket.

EFTPOS and online is a tad different.

 

[Value Collector]

1. ATM outage singular or across the network can be mitigated by using another provider, e.g., bank or supermarket or post office etc

Yeah, but that involves inconvenience to and potentially extra costs. Also won't you still need your card to get cash out of the supermarket or post office, isn't that just the same as eftpos at that point

2. or having cash is the sky rocket.

EFTPOS and online is a tad different.

Thats my point, you then have to make sure you are always carrying around spare emergency cash, you can use if the ATM is down at the time you go to top up your regular cash supply, so if you decide to carry emergency cash you how is that much different to carrying a spare debit card.

Eftpos is much different at all, considering your "back up" plan is to use a supermarket eftpos system to get access to cash.

 

[JohnDe]

ATM outage singular or across the network can be mitigated by using another provider, e.g., bank or supermarket or post office etc or having cash is the sky rocket.

EFTPOS and online is a tad different.

And people can also keep a reserve of cash, for when the banking system has a crash. Pretty hard to do that with a cashless system

 

[Value Collector]

And people can also keep a reserve of cash, for when the banking system has a crash. Pretty hard to do that with a cashless system

That depends on a cost benefit analysis I guess, eg what is the actual benefit you receive by holding on to this extra cash vs the cost of using the cash system.

I have to ask myself, given in the last several years using the cash system wouldn't have actually benefited me in any real way, but did spend my credit card points on a round trip in Business class to the UK for both the wife and I. Is that worth the possibility of having my card declined one day and having to sort something else out, I think it is. Especially because having got make 1000 special trips to ATM's is an inconvenience itself.

 

[JohnDe]

That depends on a cost benefit analysis I guess, eg what is the actual benefit you receive by holding on to this extra cash vs the cost of using the cash system.

I have to ask myself, given in the last several years using the cash system wouldn't have actually benefited me in any real way, but did spend my credit card points on a round trip in Business class to the UK for both the wife and I. Is that worth the possibility of having my card declined one day and having to sort something else out, I think it is. Especially because having got make 1000 special trips to ATM's is an inconvenience itself.

It depends on convenience, stress and anxiety. Nothing worse than getting fuel and not being able to pay for it or picking up important medication to have your payment declined. As the CBA banking outage showed, there was a lot of anxiety and inconvenience for people that could not pay their bills.

Having some cash as a back up works.

 

[againsthegrain]

The forces of nature will prevail as always, perhaps all this talk of going cashless much like the new covid normal all will die in the as when squared off against the real world ?

 

[Value Collector]

It depends on convenience, stress and anxiety. Nothing worse than getting fuel and not being able to pay for it or picking up important medication to have your payment declined. As the CBA banking outage showed, there was a lot of anxiety and inconvenience for people that could not pay their bills.

Having some cash as a back up works.

I think people that pay in cash all the time would have much more frequent instances of looking into their wallet and finding they are short, and then face the anxiety and inconvenience of having to go and find an ATM before they get to their actual plans.

Sure by all means carry a $50 or $100 as back up, but you are pretending if you think cash is anywhere near as convenient as cashless methods.

As I said I will take a 1 in 3000 chance that I might have to run to an ATM when my card fails one day, rather than having visiting an ATM weekly as part of a routine.

 

[JohnDe]

I think people that pay in cash all the time would have much more frequent instances of looking into their wallet and finding they are short, and then face the anxiety and inconvenience of having to go and find an ATM before they get to their actual plans.

Sure by all means carry a $50 or $100 as back up, but you are pretending if you think cash is anywhere near as convenient as cashless methods.

As I said I will take a 1 in 3000 chance that I might have to run to an ATM when my card fails one day, rather than having visiting an ATM weekly as part of a routine.

I pay in cash all the time, I don’t suffer from anxiety. I know roughly what is in my wallet and spend accordingly, and have no stress of spending more than I have.

I don’t visit a ATM, there are other ways to collect cash, including while shopping.

Went to the pub tonight with my wife for dinner and a drink, $97 paid cash & I scored a collectable coin as a bonus.

 

[Telamelo]

With end of financial year sales noticed that many retailers nowadays couldn't care less if you offered to pay them cash (so as to try get a better deal/cheaper price etc.) as blatantly told that's the price mate & don't accept cash anyway... miss those good 'ol days when negotiating "best cash price" would usually get you a great discount.

 

[Value Collector]

I pay in cash all the time, I don’t suffer from anxiety. I know roughly what is in my wallet and spend accordingly, and have no stress of spending more than I have.

I don’t visit a ATM, there are other ways to collect cash, including while shopping.

Went to the pub tonight with my for dinner and a drink, paid $97 cash & I scored a collectable coin as a bonus.

It’s personal preference I guess, but if your plan is to get cash out while you shop, it seems to me you may as well just use your card to pay.

You might be suffering Stockholm syndrome, and not realise the inconvenience you are suffering because you are used to the inconvenience.

Try committing to going completely cashless for a month, it’s a bit like getting an electric car, eg you won’t want to go back to the service station.

You might like collectable coins, but I would rather just pay the $97 on card, collect points instead and leave the $3 of coins in the bank earning interest.

The business class flights I booked using points were worth $24,000 if I paid cash, that’s a lot of collectable coins you would need.