Can Malcolm Turnbull rise from the ashes?

[Tink]

to me it's more about the libs pulling their heads out of the sand and looking forward instead of back to the 'golden years' of johnny.. who looked back to the golden years of menzies.

the ets will come - whether it's now or later

I think you have hit the nail on the head.

The last year in politics has been a circus.

 

[nulla nulla]

IMHO this thread will be dead and buried by Monday Nov 30. I doubt Turnbull can survive this latest debacle and hoping, the end of the ETS.

Actualy the interview he gave on Channel 7 Sunrise this morning is probably the best I have heard him give in respect of the relevence of the Liberal Party moving forward.
Having gained changes to the proposed legislation on the basis that they would support the legislation with those changes, they would lose all credibility if they now reneged on their commitment to pass the amended legislation. Rudd would have a field day, at their expense, in any election campaign.

 

[Tink]

I read an article a while ago that said, for the Libs to move forward, they had to get rid of the dead wood (Howard Loyals).

Looks like they might have jumped the ship.

Be interesting to see what happens in the next few days.

 

[Knobby22]

I read an article a while ago that said, for the Libs to move forward, they had to get rid of the dead wood (Howard Loyals).

Looks like they might have jumped the ship.

Be interesting to see what happens in the next few days.

If Turnbull loses and one of the deadwood get in, they definitely won't get my vote. I reckon the party should have a purge of those who resigned as people willing to damage the party to try to further their careers.

You can't get back in power by appealing to the right, you have to take the middle ground.

 

[Knobby22]

For the record, i to would prefer a straight out carbon tax...with no restrictions on offset creation, however politics is about what's achievable not what's best or what u or i want.

I am like you, in fact I reckon most of the educated Joe Public would agree.

 

[dbcok]

Article in the Age newspaper suggesting that the Howard loyals were getting strategy advice straight from John Howard.Now that is not surprising,
Turnbull has gained respect from me over this,but will he survive?All will be revealed in due course.

 

[refined silver]

Turnbull is an ex-Goldman Sachs president who sucked $100m in personal wealth for himself from the system. His venture into politics is only to pay back Goldman and banking buddies from inside politics.

His unwavering support for the ETS is because the biggest beneficiaries of a complex ETS system would be the derivative trading desks of the major banks.

The weekend Australian had a great article about how Goldman works and how after they've made their personal tens and hundreds of millions they go off to get jobs in the regulatory and political system to keep the money flowing to the top banks.

 

[Julia]

And not a moment too soon imo. Turnbull seems to have done more for labor causes, rather then been any help to liberals.

Rudd is trying to rush the ets through tomorrow while Turnbull is still in a position of power. Why the need for the rush? It will make zero difference to the environment if we wait till February. Except that the general public might realize what’s going on
Rudd has made out the world would end if we didn’t tax force this tax on Australians asap.
Notice Rudd once again dodges the flack from the media for putting this ****e on the table. Be nice to know exactly how much of a difference this ets will make on global warming.

Um, none, actually.

Not pointing the finger at anyone in particular but i have to say that i find the depth of political naivety from many posters in this thread, and other similar ones to be breathtaking.

I'd suggest that it's you who are being naive if you really think the amended ETS is actually about doing anything to change the climate, rather than advancing Mr Rudd's political aspirations on the world stage.

Turnbull is being statesman like and showing all the quality's of a great leader...its the party that's letting him down, its the right wing of the party that has taken its collective bat and ball and gone home to reminisce about the good old (Howard) days.

That would be fine if this piece of legislation actually would do anything to 'save our children and grandchildren' etc. It won't.
Therefore, I'd say Turnbull is making a martyr of himself (a) for no good reason, and (b) because he has painted himself into this corner and can't get out without looking silly.

His style has been to make unilateral decisions without adequately considering the wishes or views of all his party. They simply don't like that.
It's not just on this issue that he has adopted this presidential style.
He has shown himself to be politically inept from the beginning. Just consider Utegate as an example.

IMHO if Turnbull goes it will throw the Labor Party into turmoil, the ETS will be out the proverbial window and I maintain there are several Labor politicians hoping the same. The problem with the Labor politicians who are against the ETS is the fact they fear retribution by Rudd.

Noco, I disagree. The Labor Party wins whatever happens. If Turnbull does manage to convince his members to vote for the ETS, the government wins.
If he doesn't, they have plenty of material with which to justifiably taunt the Opposition all the way to the next election.

If there are as you suggest Labor politicians against the ETS (and I've no seen no evidence of this), then their party discipline won't be letting it show.

Turnbull is an ex-Goldman Sachs president who sucked $100m in personal wealth for himself from the system. His venture into politics is only to pay back Goldman and banking buddies from inside politics.

His unwavering support for the ETS is because the biggest beneficiaries of a complex ETS system would be the derivative trading desks of the major banks.

The weekend Australian had a great article about how Goldman works and how after they've made their personal tens and hundreds of millions they go off to get jobs in the regulatory and political system to keep the money flowing to the top banks.

Ah, and so to the truth to a large extent.
I also think Mr Turnbull probably genuinely believes in the need for an ETS.
One would have hoped, however, that he would have listened to the now prevailing view (not just within his party) that this legislation is so flawed as to be useless, even counter-productive.

Many of the people who are presently so outraged would be quite accepting of a consideration of an ETS - or preferably a straight carbon tax - following global agreements at Copenhagen.

It's the indecent haste which has accompanied this whole event that has been wrong.

 

[Calliope]

I also think Mr Turnbull probably genuinely believes in the need for an ETS.

I think you are right. I am not sure that Rudd does. You can never be sure of the motives of a slippery customer like him.

Turnbulls electorate is the leafy and rich suburbs of Wentworth and this is the demographic most likely to support feel good causes like the ETS, unlike the residents of the coal mining areas, whose jobs may depend on it.

Most likely, if Wentworth did not have Malcolm they would vote Green.

When he is defrocked he will probably resign, and bang goes another "safe" Liberal seat.

 

[Krusty the Klown]

Turnbull is an ex-Goldman Sachs president who sucked $100m in personal wealth for himself from the system. His venture into politics is only to pay back Goldman and banking buddies from inside politics.

His unwavering support for the ETS is because the biggest beneficiaries of a complex ETS system would be the derivative trading desks of the major banks.

The weekend Australian had a great article about how Goldman works and how after they've made their personal tens and hundreds of millions they go off to get jobs in the regulatory and political system to keep the money flowing to the top banks.

Just like on Wall Street....

 

[noco]

From what I understand about the rebellion in Turnbull's ranks is the disceit and disregard he has shown to his shadow cabinet. From what I understand, the true fact is, Turnbull did not have a clear majority with his shadow cabinet ministers, but still went ahead with his crazy presentation of ETS ammendments to the Labor Party. He was sucked in by Rudd who realized how commited and deicated Turnbull was to Climate Change.
Turnbull may have been more genuine than Rudd, who we all know now,that Rudd has a hidden agenda to be World leader.
With the conspiracy and fraud by the IPCC scientist now out in the open, I can't understand why Turnbull did not use this as a tool to reject the ETS completely. More and more SCEPTICS are joining the ranks as they realize the ETS will do nothing to reduce CO2 emissions. All it will do is cost the average Joe Blow $1000 per year; one may as well say it is an extra 2.5% on the GST.
He has been outsmarted by Rudd once again and deserves to be kicked out.I doubt he will rise from the ashes and as I stated before, this thread will be dead and buried on Monday. I will apologise if I am wrong.

 

[OzWaveGuy]

Turnbull is an ex-Goldman Sachs president who sucked $100m in personal wealth for himself from the system. His venture into politics is only to pay back Goldman and banking buddies from inside politics.

His unwavering support for the ETS is because the biggest beneficiaries of a complex ETS system would be the derivative trading desks of the major banks.

The weekend Australian had a great article about how Goldman works and how after they've made their personal tens and hundreds of millions they go off to get jobs in the regulatory and political system to keep the money flowing to the top banks.

And this is crux of the issue. It's not about Turnbull not listening or being stupid etc, it's about the development of a new financial world structure using the ETS's of the world to fuel it.

 

[Uncle Barry]

Good afternoon OWGuy,
Thanks, at long, long last, someone is thinking !

As this is the real trick, behind ETS.

Climate Change, without it the place known as Earth would die.
CC HAS BEEN HAPPENING SINCE THE START OF TIME ON EARTH.

ps, its about time some people used their God given brains and started reading instead of repeating like dick.....ds what the media has been pouring down your throats,

the very same media that tricked you with............

Remember this bug that in the year 2000 was going to destroy all computers, crash banking and every airoplane

Remember the bull s..t that was the WMD claim...that cost thousands of lives,
BUT
made a lot of people money.

then sit back and start reading, AND using your brians.

then ask yourself,
what has the government done for me?
what has the government done for themselves ?

Kind regards,
UB

 

[Krusty the Klown]

we all know now,that Rudd has a hidden agenda to be World leader.

Really? I must have missed that in the news.

Can you point me toward the evidence?

DISCLOSURE: I do not support the Liberal, Labor or National parties.

Good afternoon OWGuy,
Thanks, at long, long last, someone is thinking !

As this is the real trick, behind ETS.

Climate Change, without it the place known as Earth would die.
CC HAS BEEN HAPPENING SINCE THE START OF TIME ON EARTH.

ps, its about time some people used their God given brains and started reading instead of repeating like dick.....ds what the media has been pouring down your throats,

the very same media that tricked you with............

Remember this bug that in the year 2000 was going to destroy all computers, crash banking and every airoplane

Remember the bull s..t that was the WMD claim...that cost thousands of lives,
BUT
made a lot of people money.

then sit back and start reading, AND using your brians.

then ask yourself,
what has the government done for me?
what has the government done for themselves ?

Kind regards,
UB

It's good to see another thinker out there Uncle Baz.

Before climate change became trendy, we were 10,000 years out from the next ice age, which would destroy the current global economy anyway. According to geological evidence that is the natural climate cycle.

Perhaps with CO2 emissions we have discovered a tool to prevent and control the next ice age, or indeed control the global climate that is IF man made activity is to blame.

Extrapolating this idea in to the future, you could envisage that it could be used as a weapon of war!!!! To manipulate something like the El Niño cycle so that a certain country or continent is in permanent drought and destabilising their economy and ability to conduct a war!!

P.S Yes it is Friday night and I have had a couple of beers, but the logic is still there!!!!

 

[trainspotter]

Turnbull is running the Liberal Party like a CEO and not as a smart politician. His uphandedness has tweaked the noses of too many in the fold and they have responded accordingly by splitting the party into fragments that are unable to be glued back together. IMO

 

[So_Cynical]

I'd suggest that it's you who are being naive if you really think the amended ETS is actually about doing anything to change the climate, rather than advancing Mr Rudd's political aspirations on the world stage.

Please Julia...the names Cynical not Gullible, however i know the ETS will have a small impact on our GHG emissions but nothing like what the green left thinks is needed...using a "Kyoto" 1990 base line would have an impact, anything less is compromise and this current ETS is a grand compromise.

U guys would really be upset if we had a fair dinkum ETS before the senate, an ETS within the Kyoto frame work would have 2 or 3 times the impact of this one.

 

[noco]

Is Turnbull a Labor Party stooge?

It was mooted some time ago Malcolm Turnbull tried to enter politics via the Labor Party but for some unknown reason he was refused entry.

Was he a plant in the Coalition to be used by the Labor Party some time down the track, like now.

He has become so possessed with this ETS that it almost appears he is a Labor Party sympathiser. If Malcolm Turnbull had been on ABC Insiders this morning with Julia Gillard, I'm sure she would have embraced him like a long lost brother.

 

[nulla nulla]

Re: Is the Liberal party locked in a time warp?

While the media focus shifts to the infighting within the Liberal Party, still clinging to the Menzies era's that Howard lost his seat trying to maintain, the root of the current problem still needs to be addressed.

The human contribution to global warming needs to be reduced now.

In this respect Malcolm Turnball appears to be the only liberal focused on the most relevent issue of today.

 

[Tink]

He is 'Malcolm in the Middle'.

He clashed with all them in the Republican debate, and here he is clashing with them again.

We will see what happens Tuesday.

 

[moXJO]

Re: Is the Liberal party locked in a time warp?

The human contribution to global warming needs to be reduced now.

In this respect Malcolm Turnball appears to be the only liberal focused on the most relevent issue of today.

This is the type of hysterical nonsense being spun in this country. Australia has time to read the details, before committing to this ets. Australia would be better off at this stage to provide water security, and possible climate change preparation strategies. We can't save the world by reducing Aust carbon
On the other hand California is in a green tech boom through incentives, innovation and nurturing startups. From what I have read they are once again pushing the technology (and this from a broke state). Australia has more than enough ability to follow suit if the government were truly committed.

This ets is more about Rudd grandstanding to the world, and a massive tax boost which will more than likely be squandered through bureaucratic bs. If you want actual emission reductions then vote the greens in, at least you know what their actual motive is.