CAM - Clime Capital

[notabclearning]

Whats LIC

 

[robusta]

Whats LIC

Listed Investment Company.

A company who is listed on the stock exchange and invests in other companies. In theory the performance of CAM should reflect the performance of the underlying investments. In practice these companies go in and out of fashion and some bargains can be found when they are out of fashion.

I like CAMs investment style and most of the stocks they hold except for a large holding (7.88%) in MLC.

 

[So_Cynical]

I like CAMs investment style and most of the stocks they hold except for a large holding (7.88%) in MLC.

Personally i reckon MLC could be the sleeper small cap stock of 2011/12 i can see the "value" punters expressing great love for this stock at some point down the track.

 

[robusta]

Personally i reckon MLC could be the sleeper small cap stock of 2011/12 i can see the "value" punters expressing great love for this stock at some point down the track.

Will have to take another look at them. I just took a glence an Comsec and saw them loosing money four years in a row.

 

[skc]

Will have to take another look at them. I just took a glence an Comsec and saw them loosing money four years in a row.

With the sort of prices some baby stores charge on their products ($2K for a pram?!!?), I don't understand how they can possibly lose money?

Here's some old news about the troubles at Babies Galore.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/suppliers-fear-a-baby-bumpoff-20100928-15vtj.html

I also don't understand why every LIC is trading at 15-30% discount to their NTA. Some of these LICs are quite small and even if they liquidate their holdings in one hit it's not going to suffer that much of a discount. I know with LICs you lose control of buy/sell decisions and individual controls... but still.

 

[robusta]

With the sort of prices some baby stores charge on their products ($2K for a pram?!!?), I don't understand how they can possibly lose money?

Here's some old news about the troubles at Babies Galore.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/suppliers-fear-a-baby-bumpoff-20100928-15vtj.html

I also don't understand why every LIC is trading at 15-30% discount to their NTA. Some of these LICs are quite small and even if they liquidate their holdings in one hit it's not going to suffer that much of a discount. I know with LICs you lose control of buy/sell decisions and individual controls... but still.

Have to agree with you there skc, when I look at the latest NTA update and the top ten holdings I am starting to give CAM some serious thought.

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20110113/pdf/41w59gs1lrl7m7.pdf

To complicate matters they seem to have some converting pref shares getting the lions share of dividends for the next 5-6 years. CAMPA trading @ $1.855 yielding about 10% fully franked at current prices but converting to ordinary shares 10 years after issue.

 

[ryanando]

The book value per share for the most recent quarter is 0.58 and the current share price is 0.48. Does having a book value lower then the share price make these shares good value?

 

[robusta]

The book value per share for the most recent quarter is 0.58 and the current share price is 0.48. Does having a book value lower then the share price make these shares good value?

Not sure where you are looking but the book value 31/12 was $1.35 per share after tax. Current share price is $1.025

As a general rule for a LIC it is good to have a book value higher than the share price but to determine the value they have to generate a satisfactory return on that book value after costs.

 

[robusta]

I find it a little strange that CIW have distributed MLC holdings to shareholders while CAM ratain MLC as a investment. (CIW manage investments within CAM)

This does seem to be a double standard from Clime management to me, either MLC is worth holding or not in their opinion.

 

[ccc]

Agree with Ghotib...happy as with CAM strategy despite the CCP debacle...have been working for and involved with public companies for a while now and have seen the companies do best when the directors have their own interests at stake...if you invest with CAM you are in essence making a commitment to a long term prospect and CAM definitely seem open, honest and keen to learn from their mistakes...haven't seen any other public company who takes so much effort in providing a monthly commentary to the market, it's normally just form this, appendix that so welcome the fresh approach...and they stick to their guns...also don't think you can get away from directors from public companies stuffing up or making fraudulent claims about the state of the company they work for...just need to think what you would do in the same situation...i would think the short term gain would pale against never being taken seriously again.

So much for the "CCP debacle". Look at the CCP shareprice now !! Have people forgotten what LIC's are all about ? LONG TERM investment. Look at CAM's massive outperformance over the past 3 years.

 

[Panaman]

Was looking at BKI and ARG as the 2 to use in my Super but was also looking at CAM instead of ARG as it looks for stocks across the whole ASX not just the top 200 which both BKI and ARG do.

BKI I like as it has a good track record, very low fees and no performance bonuses to milk your account in the good times, ARG though has been around for over 50 years I have read and in that time a proven track record.

How does CAM rate these days ?

 

[robusta]

Another quarterly report I often find interesting as a holder I've been really keen to find out their first international investment.
http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20140717/pdf/42qw34nrvytxf0.pdf

"An initial investment was made in the US listed ADR
of Gazprom OAO. Gazprom is domiciled in Russia
and has diverse portfolio of assets across gas, gas
transportation and storage, oil and electricity. For
example, Gazprom has 18% of the world’s gas reserves,
over 168,300km of gas transportation pipelines, 1,200
MMToe of oil reserves and 62GW of generation capacity
(Australia’s total is around 45GW). Despite its enduring
earning capability, Gazprom trades at a fraction of the
multiples of Exxon and its other global peers, with a
price to book of 0.3 and a PE of 4 (Exxon at 2.5 times
book value & 13 times forward earnings). While closing
of the valuation gap to international peers is unlikely in
the near term significant fundamental value is on offer
along with a free currency option stemming from a
depressed Russian Rouble and elevated AUD relative
to the USD. The quality of the assets and the attractive
entry price offset the geopolitical risks involved with
investing in the region and create significant forward
return potential."

At 1.1% of the portfolio seems like a decent bet to me.

 

[rryall]

Anyone still following this stock? I like their investment style and have a reasonable shareholding in this LIC. I'm looking at added to this position significantly throughout 2016. However, the small liquidity is putting me off CAM. I have looked at other LIC's including ARG and AFI etc. however I think they are too top heavy in banking/mining. Anyone know of any other LIC's with a similar style to CAM with larger liquidity?

 

[rryall]

Anyone still following this stock? I like their investment style and have a reasonable shareholding in this LIC. I'm looking at added to this position significantly throughout 2016. However, the small liquidity is putting me off CAM. I have looked at other LIC's including ARG and AFI etc. however I think they are too top heavy in banking/mining. Anyone know of any other LIC's with a similar style to CAM with larger liquidity?

Anyone starting to buy back into LIC's such as CAM that are underweight banks etc.?

 

[sinner]

Anyone starting to buy back into LIC's such as CAM that are underweight banks etc.?

What kind of fees do these guys charge to invest in CAM? Almost all LICs on the ASX LIC website show how much they charge per annum, but couldn't find the information there, or on the CAM website.

 

[systematic]

What kind of fees do these guys charge to invest in CAM? Almost all LICs on the ASX LIC website show how much they charge per annum, but couldn't find the information there, or on the CAM website.

Page 20 might be the info you are looking for?

 

[Ves]

What kind of fees do these guys charge to invest in CAM? Almost all LICs on the ASX LIC website show how much they charge per annum, but couldn't find the information there, or on the CAM website.

Page 2 of the 2015 Annual Report says performance of 9.1% pre-taxes and expenses and 8.24% pre-taxes.

I'm assuming the difference of 0.86% is the management fee for that year?

 

[sinner]

I guess 0.86% isn't too bad, in comparison to some other similar LICs at least, but I'd be wary about putting a dollar into a fund that can't even say up front what it charges to run that dollar.

 

[Ves]

I guess 0.86% isn't too bad, in comparison to some other similar LICs at least, but I'd be wary about putting a dollar into a fund that can't even say up front what it charges to run that dollar.

They seem to also run a long-term target return of 10%. There is most likely additional performance fees for any return over that hurdle or perhaps even for out-performance against the relevant ASX benchmark(s).

 

[Dona Ferentes]

Clime Capital cuts June quarter dividend

Clime Capital Limited (CAM) has announced a 16% YoY cut to the fully franked June quarter dividend. The declared 1.05cps distribution is a 19% decrease from the 1.30cps fully franked March 2020 dividend.

The Board referred to withdrawn and delayed dividends from the underlying companies in the CAM portfolio as a reason for the cut, whilst reassuring shareholders that the LIC retains a significant profit reserve for the declaration of future dividends. At the end of 2019, CAM had a profit reserve of $15.9m and a franking credit balance of $727k.

- going to happen with quite a few LICs