Burma Cyclone Relief

[2020hindsight]

1. Laos gave the NVA unrestricted access to move equipment within its borders, .... and that is why, because of this supply line that Loas and Cambodia was so heavily bombed...

2. You mock President Bush for not having a military record, and then knock J McCain for having a military record....which one is it....

3. this thread is about Burma and still you managed to start posting your anti-US ravings.......

1. yep - but I repeat Laos did nothing to US - and were bombed mercilessly as a result. - AND SFA HAS BEEN DONE to rid the place of UXO unexploded ordnance.!

2. Bush has been branded a ChickenHawke by thinking Americans. McCain has gone out of his way to prevent any investigation into his treatment as a POW. And he himself has admitted to second thoughts about what he was doing to the defenceless people below on whom he was dropping napalm etc when there was an accidental fire - takes a real hero to drop napalm

3. I didn't start the anti-US "ravings" - just pointing out some legitimate facts as to why the US wouldn't be welcomed with open arms thassall.

"Chickenhawk" by Roy Zimmerman

"Saddam Shame" by Roy Zimmerman

"wringing our hands asking why do they hate us".....

 

[juw177]

Speaking of US hypocrisy, Bush rejected French, Russian, Cuban and Venezuelan aid when hurricane Katrina happened. Many died as a result of the poor response by the white house.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_government_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina

And of the ones they did not formally reject, they only accepted 4.7%.

When other countries offered the United States $854 million in cash and oil as foreign aid to help the areas devastated by Hurricane Katrina, they merely accepted 4.7% of the total aid offered, the rest went uncollected. There is no reason for not accepting the available resources, other than that aid is a political tool. The United States wanted to avoid the political influence aid has on the policies of the recipient nation."

 

[IFocus]

Speaking of US hypocrisy, Bush rejected French, Russian, Cuban and Venezuelan aid when hurricane Katrina happened. Many died as a result of the poor response by the white house.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_government_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina

And of the ones they did not formally reject, they only accepted 4.7%.

Just a slight difference between the infrastructure and capability to respond to a disaster the size affecting Burma.

Your raising smoke screens supporting a Junta............Juntas are the ultimate example of power corrupts, total power corrupts totally.......... as the people of Burma are experiencing now.......

 

[juw177]

Your raising smoke screens supporting a Junta............Juntas are the ultimate example of power corrupts, total power corrupts totally.......... as the people of Burma are experiencing now.......

I read the same mainstream news reports as you so you do not need to echo it.

Total power belongs to the US. Not the Junta. Who is imposing the sanctions that is causing the population to suffer? Who has interest in keeping the country from developing?

Burma is a resource rich country. They are also the second largest heroine producer in the world (behind Afghanastan which overtook Burma's number 1 spot after the American invasion). If history has taught us anything, unless the profits from the resources are going to the USA, the covert operations and propaganda against the government will not end.

I hope the victims receive the relief they desperately need but I will not for a moment believe the mainstream hype that their government is conspiring to kill their citizens.

 

[wildkactus]

In the local media here in HK it has been reported that some of the regional and top generals have been relabeling aid shipments (what little that has got throught) with their own names and making it look like the aid is coming as a gift from them.

I guess this is just more of their propaganda machine at work, making the uneducated believe that they are the best choice for their country and that they don't need the help from the rest of the world.

anyway we all know where this will end and it won't be good for the local people.

 

[juw177]

wildkatus: I read that too but I continue to see through the hypocrisy. What about our advertising wasteland? When a corporation donates to a charity, they too will make sure everyone knows. And how much do western political parties spend on dirty advertising campaigns leading up to an election and who are funds them?

As long as the generals are getting the aid through I dont care.

 

[IFocus]

I read the same mainstream news reports as you so you do not need to echo it.

Lost me?

Total power belongs to the US. Not the Junta. Who is imposing the sanctions that is causing the population to suffer?

Hmmm maybe you could read up on the history of Junta's I was referring to Junta's in general (excuse the pun)not just Burma.
They are about total power being held by a small group of individuals and holding it / exercising it through violence on the population of their own country.
The US,China,Russia,Japan and most European countries have exercised violence against other countries often with the tacit support of their respective populations.

Who has interest in keeping the country from developing?

I think the Generals are the only ones who benefit, history is full of dictatorships and regressive living standards Burma is nothing new.
But you choose to blame the US?

Burma is a resource rich country. They are also the second largest heroine producer in the world (behind Afghanastan which overtook Burma's number 1 spot after the American invasion). If history has taught us anything, unless the profits from the resources are going to the USA, the covert operations and propaganda against the government will not end.

Obviously Burma is not that resource rich other wise the US would have already invaded!

I hope the victims receive the relief they desperately need but I will not for a moment believe the mainstream hype that their government is conspiring to kill their citizens.

Seems that they just shoot the odd monk for disagreeing I know I know more western news bias.
As we cannot talk to anyone in Burma that holds a dissenting view (like San Suu Kyi) you completely perverse the concept of bias

juw177 its looks like you are a fervent supporter of the Junta and hater of the US at any cost be it human, so be it

 

[juw177]

IFocus, I think you are the one that should read up on the history of Burma and the opium trade. You do not understand the extent of US foreign policy against the defenseless third world. The number deaths caused by their secret wars dwarfs anything from these so called "communist military dictatorships": funding of rebel groups, overthrowing of governments, terrorism, assassinations and sanctions. All to benefit a small group of elites. This information can easily be found on the internet, documentaries, etc.

Burma is yet another defenseless country on the list that could do nothing to harm the west. And we will keep hearing propaganda about Aung San Suu Kyi, the monks protest, and now the handling of the relief until a puppet government is installed.

 

[juw177]

As we cannot talk to anyone in Burma that holds a dissenting view (like San Suu Kyi) you completely perverse the concept of bias

It is the exact opposite. The media's sole responsibility is to find dissidence.

 

[IFocus]

IFocus, I think you are the one that should read up on the history of Burma and the opium trade. You do not understand the extent of US foreign policy against the defenseless third world. The number deaths caused by their secret wars dwarfs anything from these so called "communist military dictatorships": funding of rebel groups, overthrowing of governments, terrorism, assassinations and sanctions. All to benefit a small group of elites. This information can easily be found on the internet, documentaries, etc.

Oh but I do and 1st hand, was in central America when the US funded the Contra"s I supported the Sandinistas.

I was also in Chile when the US supported General Augusto Pinochet. I got to see what a Military dictatorship was like 1st hand.

But what has this to do with the Burmese Junta stoping the UN, Oxam and the like distributing food / water and the things required to quell the onset of disease.

In a word "nothing" their motives are solely about sustaining total power.

Remember I have seen this 1st hand, not a news clip, not some ones opinion, not indoctrination but the reality of a Military Junta.

And we will keep hearing propaganda about Aung San Suu Kyi, the monks protest, and now the handling of the relief until a puppet government is installed.

Detention since her party winning the popular vote, is that propaganda?........

BTW my own politics are some where left of the communist party.......that represents the people not oppress and kill them for sake of power.

 

[IFocus]

It is the exact opposite. The media's sole responsibility is to find dissidence.

The media is a business to make profits for its owners if you are a trader its fundamental to understand this very point.

Once this is grasped then you can start to understand the basis and direction of bias.

Of course state run media has a different agenda the two are not to be confused

 

[juw177]

But what has this to do with the Burmese Junta stoping the UN, Oxam and the like distributing food / water and the things required to quell the onset of disease.

I appreciate that you have seen more than me.

And to answer your question, it is not so simple. The countries they represent are enemies of the Burmese government. Also, they are not rejecting the aid supplies, maybe they think they can adequately distribute the aid themselves. Last I read, they have been letting in aid. Plus, no country, even in a crisis will open its doors and invite anyone to enter.

You may well be right and that the government does not care that a few more thousands die. I am just not so quick to judge.

 

[IFocus]

Indonesia pretty much did this in Banda Ache in the middle of a civil war much to the dismay of its own military.
But this was a government that acted in the best interests of the people not in the interests of maintaining power.

Australia committed $1Billion and you can bet there were strings attached as the Australian government would have wanted influence in Indonesian affairs.

Note the Indonesians still quite happily tell the Australian government to bugger off

 

[IFocus]

I appreciate that you have seen more than me.

A blind man often sees more

In the market its our thinking that counts

 

[juw177]

Another difference is that the Indonesian government co-operates with the US.

Yes, I would also expect people who trade stock to be a bit skeptical of media spins. Separating the facts from the hype is important in this game.

 

[Aussiejeff]

Getting back on track...

An interesting, but controversial idea from Capt. Hornblower's team - forced regime change in Burma!

If any regime around the world currently deserved the full weight of the UN Military on it's heads, it's those pr***'s! They are only going to knowingly kill 10's of thousands more of their own people anyway through Genocidal Neglect. Why not invade the scum and free the people once and for all?

Generally, I'm anti-war unless there is a VERY good reason to be involved. The JUNTA reason has festered for far too long...

Ideas?



AJ

 

[Superfly]

Getting back on track...

An interesting, but controversial idea from Capt. Hornblower's team - forced regime change in Burma!

If any regime around the world currently deserved the full weight of the UN Military on it's heads, it's those pr***'s! They are only going to knowingly kill 10's of thousands more of their own people anyway through Genocidal Neglect. Why not invade the scum and free the people once and for all?

Generally, I'm anti-war unless there is a VERY good reason to be involved. The JUNTA reason has festered for far too long...

Ideas?

One word.. China...

China the other great murderous regime in the region, will ( same as North Korea, Vietnam ) not allow this Burmise regime to fall... why... because China does not want western powers on it's borders... this is another crime by China..

 

[Aussiejeff]

One word.. China...

China the other great murderous regime in the region, will ( same as North Korea, Vietnam ) not allow this Burmise regime to fall... why... because China does not want western powers on it's borders... this is another crime by China..

..who we support with massive exports of raw materials for their Ultimate Power Quest!

Funny. We worry about China's economy "becoming overheated" - then feed the flames ever higher!


AJ

 

[Superfly]

And we will keep hearing propaganda about Aung San Suu Kyi, the monks protest, and now the handling of the relief until a puppet government is installed.

Spoken like a true Chinese robot....

Saw an interesting report on CNN yesterday... in Beijing groups of young Chinese punching fists in the air shouting pro China slogans, waving the communist flag, rah rah rah.....meanwhile back at the epicentre the only building left undamaged in one town was the local communist party headquaters, standing proud a shiny mirrored building among a back drop of rubble, rubble that was once cheaply government built schools, homes, rubble thats full of people and the locals are not shouting the greatness of the party just now !!!

In Burma the UN is saying that only 25% of cyclone victims have received any aid... UN boss in Burma shortly...

 

[wayneL]

One word.. China...

China the other great murderous regime in the region, will ( same as North Korea, Vietnam ) not allow this Burmise regime to fall... why... because China does not want western powers on it's borders... this is another crime by China..

Well without supporting either the Burmese or Chinese regimes, you can hardly blame China for this... not after noting the US' interference in it's own region and support of pro US tyrants.

The obstruction in getting aid to it's people is no less revolting however.