Brokerage/platforms terrible in Oz

[RichKid]

1. By default you do not get data. You need to subscribe and pay - it's $37.50 per month and is passed directly to the exchange, i.e. we make nothing on it.

2. Yes

3. $6,000

4. Yes

Ok, I've found a reply to my question from p16 of this thread, all is well.

So it looks like I can buy and sell Aussie stocks without having to subscribe to ASX data via IB.

<EDIT- I just saw replies above mine!! was buried in the middle of this thread before I posted- thanks for the quick replies guys, much appreciated, I should be able to help others out in turn once I learn all the 'rulz'!!>.

 

[RichKid]

Absolutely agree, RichKid. Although my experience was not pleasant and I was somewhat reluctant to even share it, perhaps it may help prevent someone else making a similar mistake.

Their software is great with so many features - nothing like it in Aus AFAIK. Had there been even a warning message to stop that twisted trade of mine going through, the account would still be open and being used for smaller trades where assignment with IB could be easily managed in the first 10 minutes. In fact, I kept the account open for a while and even traded in it again, but found I had become too fearful of making another mistake. As emotions and trading don't mix, it was time to part company with the otherwise nice software and slightly cheaper fees.

I agree that some streamlining would be certainly beneficial in a few areas and especially for Aus ETOs. Yes, IB certainly do have a lot to offer the Aus market - no question about that.

Cheers

Hi Sails,

Yes, it is terrible when these things happen, I'm so sorry to hear of it, even experienced players can get done in by new systems.

That's one reason I'm suspicious of joining IB asap. IB is new to Australia, unlike other brokers who already have local reputations and clients who share their experiences of platforms and service in the thousands.

Hence the multifarious questions here, I hope you will be able to overcome the effects of your misfortune and maybe in a few months, once IB Australia has improved and plugged the gaps, you can have a go at it again, provided you see a worthwhile benefit at that stage.

If I join, I'll certainly have feedback to share, not sure if I'll be trying any complex options strategies though, will take it one step at a time.

 

[yonnie]

am with IB for years and:

be very careful with the platform and learn to operate it very well first

has cost me quite a bit of money

but in Oz there`s no platform like it with more than 30 different order types.

where in Oz can you place your buy order, your sell order if you buy it and your stop loss order all at the same time. and all that for the same low brokerage.
set and forget!

 

[alphaman]

My account opened today but because fund has not cleared yet, I haven't be able to view any data. IB's online chat staff Mary was very helpful. So far so good, the only problem is I'll have little time left to satisfy my activity minimum this month. Hopefully the fund will clear soon!

I've been usng the browser-based TWS. Do experienced IB users prefer the standalone program or browser?

 

[yonnie]

Steve,

there are Ozzie brokers that have a tool called market detail without having to sign up for ASX data: the ability to see every order on every price level.

say NWT: 56 orders to buy shares @ 1 cent
with them I would be able to see the full market queue with all those 56 different orders displayed without paying for ASX data.

wouldn`t IB be able to do this?

thanks

 

[Steve-IB]

Steve,

there are Ozzie brokers that have a tool called market detail without having to sign up for ASX data: the ability to see every order on every price level.

say NWT: 56 orders to buy shares @ 1 cent
with them I would be able to see the full market queue with all those 56 different orders displayed without paying for ASX data.

wouldn`t IB be able to do this?

thanks

What would be the use of that? The market depth would aggregate this, if there was 56 orders for a total of 100,000 shares, it would show 100,000 shares bid at 1 cent. Does it make any difference if that's 56 orders or 6 orders?

 

[yonnie]

What would be the use of that? The market depth would aggregate this, if there was 56 orders for a total of 100,000 shares, it would show 100,000 shares bid at 1 cent. Does it make any difference if that's 56 orders or 6 orders?

Steve,

we`re talking here about total buy orders for 60-100 million on 1 price level and for my strategy its very important to know where my orders are in the queue and when to place a new order.

why do you think that some other brokers have that tool if its not that important?

 

[Steve-IB]

Steve,

we`re talking here about total buy orders for 60-100 million on 1 price level and for my strategy its very important to know where my orders are in the queue and when to place a new order.

why do you think that some other brokers have that tool if its not that important?

Ok, to identify where you are in the q, makes sense. I'll check the ASX documentation and see what we can do.

(many brokers give you junk research too... helps justify the commissions, but is rarely insightful enough to be important

 

[halfwheel]

Im really dissapointed about the Chess thing. If IB would become a Chess Sponsor I would move across today but as it is Id prefer to pay higher brokerage elsewhere

 

[RichKid]

Im really dissapointed about the Chess thing. If IB would become a Chess Sponsor I would move across today but as it is Id prefer to pay higher brokerage elsewhere

Yes halfwheel, it is disappointing for such a large organization to decide not to become a CHESS participant- certainly a hassle and a big risk to take with a co that is very new to Oz, regardless of its reputation overseas.

It appears that IB demands transfer of title to YOUR stock to IB before they will authorize your account opening; unlike the situation with most Oz brokers who only hold it on your behalf through CHESS. In the case of IB, Fortis Clearing holds it on behalf of IB (rather than yourself) and IB in turn assigns that stock to your account. This is how I understand it, Steve could clear it up if my understanding is flawed.

The ASX website has more info on retention of title via CHESS. Only IB appears to want direct title for themselves, they only notionally ascribe the stock to our account from what I understand. This appears to be the case for all of IB's accounts (ie includes IB's Margin and non-Margin ac's).

I'm not sure what the legal position is here since IB has not provided consideration for the stock. I would hope that IB is merely holding the stock in trust for its clients while title remains with the client (the retail punter/trader).

So the simple question really is- why does IB shy away from becoming a CHESS participant, thus enabling IB to sponsor clients directly into CHESS, in the same way that CommSec and other Australian brokers do? I'm sure that many here will be interested in a direct explanation.

 

[Look Left]

So the simple question really is- why does IB shy away from becoming a CHESS participant, thus enabling IB to sponsor clients directly into CHESS, in the same way that CommSec and other Australian brokers do? I'm sure that many here will be interested in a direct explanation.

RichKid,
I definitely would be very interested to know why. The more we know about the risks involved, of not being Chess Sponsored, the less the risk becomes.

It would be silly for any of us to berate IB about this without all the facts. It maybe that additional costs are involved and this would result in increased brokerage. If it's simply that IB don't want the extra administrative burden then this is something they will have to live with.

Hopefully Steve_IB can clear up why they don't wish to take this path.

 

[RichKid]

RichKid,
I definitely would be very interested to know why. The more we know about the risks involved, of not being Chess Sponsored, the less the risk becomes.

It would be silly for any of us to berate IB about this without all the facts. It maybe that additional costs are involved and this would result in increased brokerage. If it's simply that IB don't want the extra administrative burden then this is something they will have to live with.

Hopefully Steve_IB can clear up why they don't wish to take this path.

True, Look Left, there would be some cost involved but it may be an investment worth making to really exploit this market and to provide a hassle free service to clients, especially when you look at the scale of IB's operations it shouldn't be too hard to integrate CHESS. A small increase in brokerage isn't something that many of us will complain about since the gap between the next lowest rate and IB is so great.

I certainly don't want the added administrative burden of dealing with Fortis and IB to claim divs and to fill out forms and correspondence when IB has more resources and systems than I do to deal with the CHESS issue. More importantly, there is the assurance of ownership of CHESS sponsored stock in the current Aussie broker system which we lose when we deal through IB as we don't even have an individual Holder Identification Number (HIN) through IB/Fortis.

Steve seems like a very helpful and reasonable person so let's see what the response to this is. We won't know unless we ask.

 

[RichKid]

Just came across Bell Direct, a new Australian online broker platform, just $15 per trade and an interest bearing cash account (6.15%, interest calculated daily): https://www.belldirect.com.au/home/aboutus.html

Apparently the web trading platform is brand new and not just a repackaging of existing technology.

More info in the BellDirect thread. The Bell thread can be used for specific questions and discussion about BellDirect and this Aussie brokerage platforms thread can be used to compare IB and other brokers, including Bell.

For those just looking at straight Aussie equities and warrants this should be great. I assume there aren't any CHESS issues as we have with IB as BellDirect is an Aussie broker. They only charge $10 per month for live data, much cheaper than IB's $37.50 (although this is at cost, as charged by the ASX), and also have a free 20 min delayed data feed.

I would say that IB is best for those trading more than just local equities on one platform, especially if you aren't concerned about handing over your stock to IB outside of CHESS. IB is still cheaper for brokerage and that'll have to be their main selling point for most of us, although the added risk of their CHESS arrangement may make that less attractive to some.

 

[alphaman]

I assume there aren't any CHESS issues as we have with IB as BellDirect is an Aussie broker.

That's right. In fact I just received the "NEW CHESS HOLDER" letter from ASX today. The CHESS Sponsor name is "Third Party Platform Pty Ltd" with Bell Direct.

IB's CHESS issue does bother me a little, but otherwise everything has been very smooth (I opened accounts with both recently).

 

[yonnie]

normally when you short sell shares you got to pay costs to borrow the shares as well as brokerage.

could it be that IB have all their clients shares in IB`s name so that when we short sell shares we borrow those shares from IB without having to pay costs to borrow the shares?

in that case it would be cheaper for IB`s clients to short sell shares.

 

[chops_a_must]

I would be very interested to know if IB have any plans to give access to the NSX and especially the SIM market.

Also, in the near future, will IB clients in Australia have any access to carbon markets?

 

[BBand]

I wish IB would make a decision regarding their CHESS intentions - if indeed they think it important
Peter

 

[Sir Burr]

I wish IB would make a decision regarding their CHESS intentions - if indeed they think it important
Peter

+ 1

 

[halfwheel]

Yes the Chess thing is really dissapointing. I cant see Commsec or other larger brokers lowering there rates when IB has issues like this. In the meantime I will check out BellDirect.

 

[alphaman]

I could not log in to TWS and WebTrader this Sunday afternoon, is it just me?