Bible Verse of the Day

wayneL said:

And there is no reason why anyone cannot use biblical passages in a philosophical sense, even if an atheist, such as the way Bunyip has dissected the passage above. Use what is philosophically useful and discard the rest.

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That makes me smile Wayne. The thought of atheists looking for philosophical direction, after discarding all religious connotations in passages found the "Bible Verse of the Day" thread. Surely there are easier ways for atheists to find answers to the meaning of life?

Despite posters best intentions to create an open forum to rationally discuss opposing views it unfortunately won't happen here. Why? Because religion is such an abstract, personal and interpretative topic. You can't argue in a logical, rational manner about a subject matter that is so obtuse and nebulus.

You and I can argue about whether Dustin Fletcher was a better full back than Stephen Silvagni until the cows come home. We have statistics, video footage, player comments and physical profiles to back up our arguments. That same quality of evidence is not available when discussing religion. As Wayne says - people need "proof".

If you take the religious context out of Bible Verses as Bunyip has done then they can seem unbelievably childish and simple. I disagree with you Wayne - the Bible was written in a religious context, so why would you want to read, interpret and comprehend the Bible away from its religious framework? You wouldn't read the Complete Mathematical Equations of Einstein for its literary value , nor would you read the Works of Shakespeare for it's historical accuracy.

Religion is emotive - plain and simple. Davids posts appear to be driven by his need to promote Gods word at any expense. He is certainly not being objective with his reasoning and it is totally personal to him. Bunyip's story is a sad one. His rejection of religion is also based on his personal experiences which have left him bitter, hurt, betrayed and disbelieving. Both have opinions based on highly personal beliefs. David will never see things like Bunyip and vice versa.

Wayne, don't be too quick to assume that "Christians" haven't asked the question..."In what form does God exist?". Just because there is a stereotypical view that people think of that dates back to our "Sunday School" days, doesn't mean that for many Christians we don't each have our own belief or understanding in what form God takes. For some that may me supernatural for some it might mean looking for a "living God" in each day.

Just remember everyone that this is a Bible Verse thread!! Does every Bible quote have to bring into play the age old question "How do you know God even exists?"

Duckman

Duckman#72 said:

That makes me smile Wayne. The thought of atheists looking for philosophical direction, after discarding all religious connotations in passages found the "Bible Verse of the Day" thread. Surely there are easier ways for atheists to find answers to the meaning of life?

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Maybe so, but even the Skeptic's annotated bible recognized "good stuff" in between all the dross. http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/good/nt_list.html It is also a fact that our society with all its laws and customs are based around Christo-Judaic tradition. We live largely by the philosophical constructs of the Bible (or the modern Church's interpretation thereof).

We celebrate Easter, Christmas, give charity etc. Even Dawkins admits to being a "cultural" Christian. We live in the Christian cultural tradition, even if increasingly not in the religious tradition. Whether that's a good thing or not, I don't know.

But the fact remains that there are useful philosophies in the Bible. If a person's convictions dictate they definitely don't source them there, fine, but they're there.

Duckman#72 said:

Despite posters best intentions to create an open forum to rationally discuss opposing views it unfortunately won't happen here. Why? Becasue religion is such an abstract, personal and interpretative topic. You can't argue in a logical, rational manner about a subject matter that is so obtuse and nebulus.

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You can if open and stable. In my group of friends we do it all the time. But I suppose what you're saying is that not all here are open and stable... true.

By the way, I'm not a Bible apologist, just ambivalent.

wayneL said:

We celebrate Easter, Christmas, give charity etc. Even Dawkins admits to being a "cultural" Christian. We live in the Christian cultural tradition, even if increasingly not in the religious tradition. Whether that's a good thing or not, I don't know.

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Very interesting point Wayne. You say that "we live in the Christian cultural tradition". Are you implying that it is a conscious decision on each individuals behalf? Or by just agreeing with society's norms we become "Cultural Christians" by default? Or are we simply living under the remains of an increasingly irrelevant religious calendar?

As for whether or not it is a good thing, depends in part to the importance you place on religion in the calendar.

Duckman

If anyone is looking for quotes from the bible, these sites might help ..

http://www.rhymezone.com/g/holy/oldtestament
http://www.rhymezone.com/g/holy/newtestament

eg type in begat ... and you beget this ...

Genesis > Chapter 5

And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his
own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth: 5:4 And
the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years:
and he begat sons and daughters: 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived
were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

5:6 And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos: 5:7 And
Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and
begat sons and daughters: 5:8 And all the days of Seth were nine
hundred and twelve years: and he died.

5:9 And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan: 5:10 And Enos lived
after he begat Cainan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begat sons
and daughters: 5:11 And all the days of Enos were nine hundred and
five years: and he died.

5:12 And Cainan lived seventy years and begat Mahalaleel: 5:13 And
Cainan lived after he begat Mahalaleel eight hundred and forty years,
and begat sons and daughters: 5:14 And all the days of Cainan were
nine hundred and ten years: and he died. etc etc

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Adam lived 930 years
Seth lived 912 years
Enos lived 905 years
...

I bet Enos was pissed off he died so young.

Duckman#72 said:

That makes me smile Wayne.

Bunyip's story is a sad one. His rejection of religion is also based on his personal experiences which have left him bitter, hurt, betrayed and disbelieving.

Duckman

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Not really, Duckman. Disbelieving, yes, but I no longer feel hurt, bitter or betrayed....those feeling faded away when my belief in God faded away. I mean, you can't feel bitter or hurt or betrayed by something that you no longer believe in.

Anyway, at least there's one positive that's come out of this thread......it's cleared up the confusion about climate change.
My view has always been that all these droughts we've been seeing are nothing more than a naturally occurring phenomenon within the overall climatic cycle.
Some people thought greenhouse emissions were the culprit.
Looks like we were all wrong....the droughts are caused by all those heathens who are thumbing their noses at God!

Duckman#72 said:

Very interesting point Wayne. You say that "we live in the Christian cultural tradition". Are you implying that it is a conscious decision on each individuals behalf? Or by just agreeing with society's norms we become "Cultural Christians" by default? Or are we simply living under the remains of an increasingly irrelevant religious calendar?

As for whether or not it is a good thing, depends in part to the importance you place on religion in the calendar.

Duckman

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Hospitals used to put people down as "of a religion". No religion, then you are "Protestant", by default. "Agnostic", not a religion, therefore, you are Protestant.

noirua said:

Hospitals used to put people down as "of a religion". No religion, then you are "Protestant", by default. "Agnostic", not a religion, therefore, you are Protestant.

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Can any theist describe the nature of their god? . . .

Agnosticism is part of an atheistic and theistic belief...imo.

noirua said:

.., therefore, you are Protestant.

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If you're calling me a Protestant, ..
hey noi , I protest!

2020hindsight said:

If you're calling me a Protestant, ..
hey noi , I protest!

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I'm afraid that's the rules, you're a Protestant, and that's that.
Also, as an act of revenge, anyone protesting will be sent on an iron ship back to London. All ships will leave from Botany Bay.

noirua said:

I'm afraid that's the rules, you're a Protestant, and that's that.
Also, as an act of revenge, anyone protesting will be sent on an iron ship back to London. All ships will leave from Botany Bay.

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and for ten quid I bet lol .

2020hindsight said:

and for ten quid I bet lol .

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No chance, Rudd & Co can't afford it now, so you'll have to work your passage. All assets will be confiscated and used to give all those remaining lessons in Mandarin. The Union Jack is about to be removed from the flag and a red moon put in the corner.

noirua said:

The Union Jack is about to be removed from the flag

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about time - or at least shrink the thing.
I hear the religious right Americans are gonna find a place on their flag for the bible.

2020hindsight said:

about time - or at least shrink the thing.
I hear the religious right Americans are gonna find a place on their flag for the bible.

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I'm not surprised. Sales of flags should rocket.
I can feel a verse coming on.

..begat not the words of a bigoted pagan; but his son, Commodus who succeeded him showed favour to them out of regard for Marcia, the honoured Empress. The numbers of faithfull exceedingly increased, during this calm, and many of the first rank enlisted themselves of which number was Apollonius, a Roman Senator. A person brought to holy scripture, versed in philosophy. He shall be an apologist by and in the sanctity of his manners. Such be the force of good example he would draw away from reproach and be brought to enlightenment. n...(111)a

We live largely by the philosophical constructs of the Bible (or the modern Church's interpretation thereof).

We celebrate Easter, Christmas, give charity etc.

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Actually, neither Easter nor Christmas are mentioned in the Bible. The two celebrations are pagan celebrations and are anti-biblical.

Spanning Tree said:

Actually, neither Easter nor Christmas are mentioned in the Bible. The two celebrations are pagan celebrations and are anti-biblical.

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Nice one ST.

Our dogmatic Christians will hold the line however, with their 'facts'. That been......ummmmm....oh, there are none.

Ooooops.

"And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

And he answered and said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that which he hath.

Therefore speak I to them in parables; because seeing they see not, and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand."

Spanning Tree said:

Actually, neither Easter nor Christmas are mentioned in the Bible. The two celebrations are pagan celebrations and are anti-biblical.

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That's never worried anyone.

Actually, neither Easter nor Christmas are mentioned in the Bible. The two celebrations are pagan celebrations and are anti-biblical.

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That's never worried anyone.

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Easter and Christmas in fact are end-of-harvest celebrations. Both celebrations are not actually celebrations of Jesus's birth or death. Rather, they are celebrations of fertility. Ancient pagans used to engage in public orgies during Christmas and Easter. During these days it was okay for men to walk around and rape women on the streets. The Easter bunny represents high fertility because rabbits are known to breed a lot. The egg represents new life, yet another symbol of sex and orgies.

2020hindsight said:

Adam lived 930 years
Seth lived 912 years
Enos lived 905 years
...

I bet Enos was pissed off he died so young.

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Adam lived 930 years eh? Impressive. Just goes to show that exercise is good for you and promotes longevity. Adam must have got plenty of exercise in building the ark, catching all those millions of pairs of every living creature on Earth, loading them on to his boat, gathering 6 weeks supply of food for them, feeding them every day, cleaning up after them, and generally keeping them in good health so they could repopulate the world with their respective species after the flood was over and Adam deposited them back on Terra Firma.

All this time I've been wondering why Adam, despite being an intrepid man of considerable fortitude, didn't drop dead from exhaustion, when in fact all that hard work had the opposite effect and he lived to the ripe old age of 930!

I'm just about to head off on my daily 1 hour walk. Except that after reading about Adam and his 930 year lifespan, I'm going to crank it up to 2 hours a day from now on. Maybe even 3 hours.