BEAZLEY GOOOONEEEE

Knobby22 · 5 December 2006

Re: BEAZELY GOOOONEEEE

TheRage said:
I am assuming that this is in reference to my post because it comes directly after my post.

Having agreed with you that Kevin Rudd is an exceptional opponent I would have thought we might share some common ground. I can assure you that I don't pick political sides like football teams. I don't particularly like football so your point is moot. While I am Liberal by nature I do tend to waiver on my voting decision if the leader is top notch much like how I invest in Companies. I may not particularly like what the company stands for and does but if the management is sound I will invest. So let me assure you my jest in relation to Joe Hockey running for Liberal was merely that and I look forward to the election.

No, Sorry for giving that impression. I thought your post was balanced. I was talking about some of the posts before yours which were little more than barracking. I too normally vote Liberal but am very impressed with Rudds interview on the 7:30 report.

I should have quoted an example.

2020hindsight · 5 December 2006

Julia said:
Rudd is certainly articulate. But somehow he doesn't give any sense of himself as a person - more of a machine. I did feel Kim Beazley wasn't connecting either but, as Wayne, said, I felt immensely sorry for him yesterday. Basically a very decent man.

yep, we're gonna miss that hearty Beazley chortle / guffaw. There he was out on his own
Instead of that the clipped acid invective.

I wonder if "tight pursed lips" will end up as "tight purses" if Ruddy gets in power - doubt it

Well I'm off to get some lunch - I see the place across the road has been renamed "Rud Rud Ruddy Rud Rooster" "And we only sell rooster, no flamin chickens round here !! - and careful, some of em have hairy breasts!!"

2020hindsight · 5 December 2006

I saw they had a Daily Tele "Rudd Topless Beazley 49 - 39" , page 3.
(I don't take my glasses when I get lunch). Turned to page 3.
Damned if I could find a topless Beazley - OR a topless Rudd for that matter.

Also "Rudd makes 10 references to a fork in the road ahead" -
is that the same as saying that "the road ahead is forked?"

PS concerning assuming that a post following your post refers to yours lol - I find it usually refers to the one before yours ... (like simultaneous drafting can mean leapfrogging to some extent) and hence half the confusion round here - gets as bad as Canberra at times, yes?

ahhh topples!!

The Mint Man · 5 December 2006

Re: BEAZELY GOOOONEEEE

Knobby22 said:
Why do people pick political parties like a football team?

I dont think people do... I think they/we pick them more like a coach of a team! In other words we pick who can do the best job.
Unfortunately this also means that the coach can also have things go against him/her/them no matter how much of a good job they do.

chops_a_must · 5 December 2006

Julia said:
Basically a very decent man.

Julia

Yeah, but nice guys finish last.

Beazley has always been too honest and too nice. It's always had him in trouble. And that sucks. I would love him to stay on the front bench because he was one of the best ministers Australia has ever seen.

People don't want nice guys in politics, they wont arseholes and con artists like Howard, Abbott and Ruddock.

petee · 5 December 2006

Re: BEAZELY GOOOONEEEE

skint said:
Petee, Is that the same outstanding leadership that led us blindly into Iraq, created a two tiered health and education system, stuck its head in the sand over climate change, ... and on... and on...I don't know whether Rudd has got the goods to fix up Jonnies mess but seriously, he could hardly do worse. The consistent claim by the Libs that Johhny manages the economy doesn't even cut it. He DID NOT create the GLOBAL era of affluence over the last 10 years. He merely squandered the fruits. Interest rates - when you listen to the overwhelming majority of unaligned economists, the almost unanimous opinion is that the effect of government is neglible. When Howard and Keating where treasurers in a high global interest environment, so was Aust. Now their low, so is Aust. Global interest rates edging higher, so is Aust. The only outstandind aspect of Howard and Costello's leadership is their ability to prevent themselves hearing the endless stream of bad news. Bart Simpson, we didn't do it, there were no witnesses, you can't prove a thing.

Skint if for a moment u went overseas and spent some time in say Philippines or Ethiopia u would realise how lucky we r to be in a country where u get paid to sit on ur bum..having said that i live in South Australia and we r still feeling the huge pain from labor premier Bannons bankrupcy of this state..do ur research Skint and regardless of the interest rates Liberals have brought the national debt right down..as far as Iraq goes we are US alies as during the Japanese invasion on Darwin they came to our aid etc..dont get me wrong im not pro US or anti US its just the way the west conducts itself..whether thats coz of oil interests or whatever u be the judge..all am saying is be happy ur in one of the best countries in the world..cheers

chops_a_must · 5 December 2006

Re: BEAZELY GOOOONEEEE

petee said:
and regardless of the interest rates Liberals have brought the national debt right down..

I'm not sure that is accurate. Please confirm. I remember it being used by Latham.

petee · 5 December 2006

oh and about the IR laws Howard brought in..i have this view...if we dont look after employers then employees wont have jobs..the unions want higher and higher wages and all that will achieve is employers either bringing in cheaper labour from overseas(there r millions of filipino workers scrambling to work here at less than half our wages) or as is also happening they simply shut up shop and do their manufacturing overseas..either way the unions are simply undermining the wage system here in australia and if they get their way australian wages will drop big time in the not too distant future..Howard is simply trying to make business profitable for the good of all australians

wayneL · 5 December 2006

Re: BEAZELY GOOOONEEEE

petee said:
...and regardless of the interest rates Liberals have brought the national debt right down.

The gu'mint has cleverly transfered the debt from public to private.

From todays news:

http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,23636,20874602-462,00.html

AUSTRALIA'S net foreign debt has blown out, with the nation now owing foreigners a whopping $522 billion, a figure which is expected to climb further with higher global interest rates.

Australia's net foreign debt rose 5.0 per cent to a record $522.452 billion in the September quarter from a upwardly revised $499.543 billion in the June quarter and $446.103 billion a year ago, the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) said today.

The figure means Australians are borrowing much more money overseas than foreigners borrow in Australia. That debt reflects money borrowed as well as interest costs.

It is the first time foreign debt has reached above $500 billion, or half a trillion dollars.

chops_a_must · 5 December 2006

Re: BEAZELY GOOOONEEEE

Originally Posted by petee
and regardless of the interest rates Liberals have brought the national debt right down..

chops_a_must said:
I'm not sure that is accurate. Please confirm. I remember it being used by Latham.

Never mess with a photographic memory boy:

TONY JONES: But you've called Mr Latham's interest rates pledge a stunt and a gimmick, you've said that tonight.

If so, it's pretty similar, isn't it, to your own stunt with the debt truck in 1995?

JOHN HOWARD: Tony, what I am asking the Australian people to do and what I'm asking your viewers to do is to look at the here and now.

We've had eight-and-a-half years when interest rates have fallen to their lowest levels in a generation.

Now, that is fact.

No dispute about that.

We have a choice on 9 October between a Government that's delivered those low interest rates and a Labor Party who when last in Government gave us very high interest rates and left us with enormous debt and also, a Government - a Labor party that if it were in government, would ransack the industrial relations system and suck the productivity gains out of it that we've had over recent years.

TONY JONES: Mr Howard, you've made that point repeatedly, but when you had that debt truck, you called it the foreign debt truck.

The figure on the side of it was $194 billion - a very scary figure, I think you'd agree.

Do you know what that figure is now?

JOHN HOWARD: I don't dispute that's a different figure or that there's a higher figure.

TONY JONES: It's a higher figure, $393 billion.

It's doubled, in fact, under your Government?

JOHN HOWARD: Tony, I don't dispute that.

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2004/s1191084.htm

And wayneL, it's not even that. It's just another straight out, bullsh*t lie.

wayneL · 5 December 2006

Re: BEAZELY GOOOONEEEE

chops_a_must said:
And wayneL, it's not even that. It's just another straight out, bullsh*t lie.

What else should we expect? These people are pathological liars.

chops_a_must · 5 December 2006

Re: BEAZELY GOOOONEEEE

wayneL said:
What else should we expect? These people are pathological liars.

We can't expect anything else. And you get someone who is honest, like Beazley and people can't handle it. It's just sad that homo sapiens who at least have the brain power to turn on a computer, like petee, believe people when they are lying right throught their teeth.

wayneL · 5 December 2006

Re: BEAZELY GOOOONEEEE

chops_a_must said:
We can't expect anything else. And you get someone who is honest, like Beazley and people can't handle it. It's just sad that homo sapiens who at least have the brain power to turn on a computer, like petee, believe people when they are lying right throught their teeth.

I think it comes back to Knobby's comments... people chose their politicians like a footy team, They wear the colours, scarves etc, fly the flag, and support them no matter what.

We gotta get past that if we want good government (fat chance)

chops_a_must · 5 December 2006

Re: BEAZELY GOOOONEEEE

wayneL said:
I think it comes back to Knobby's comments... people chose their politicians like a footy team, They wear the colours, scarves etc, fly the flag, and support them no matter what.

We gotta get past that if we want good government (fat chance)

Pretty much. I think there is a stat that shows 95% of people vote the same way as their parents did. Probably the same stats with football supporters.

It calls for some philosophy.

Sapere Aude!

"Enlightenment is when a person leaves behind a state of immaturity and dependence for which he himself was responsible. Immaturity and dependence are the inability to use one's own intellect without the direction of another. One is responsible for this immaturity and dependence, if its cause is not a lack of intelligence or education, but a lack of determination and courage to think without the direction of another. Sapere aude! 'Have courage to use your own reason!' - that is the motto of enlightenment."

But as Kant says, some people certainly, and maybe as a culture as well, we will never reach a point of enlightenment at all.

2020hindsight · 5 December 2006

The Mint Man said:
.. I think they/we pick them more like a coach of a team! In other words we pick who can do the best job.
Unfortunately this also means that the coach can also have things go against him/her/them no matter how much of a good job they do.

Mint man, i really like the analogy of "we are the coaches, and we put in who we want for the next innings" - Can I take the analogy further please - (just playing around with words and concepts by the way )

1. I just wish that the innings were a bit shorter and maybe not so many coaches calling out concurrently lol - like around here

2. I used to coach the kids baseball - the idea was, (something like training a puppy) , you dont say anything negative, just wait till they do something correct, and reward em BIGTIME with praise. (so we have to all keep a scoreboard at home maybe ? - runs for / runs against ? - I kinda like that concept as well. As for the praise, mmm not sure how that works, Polling?)

3. I recall a comment by Paul Keating on TV about 8 or 10 years ago - I THINK he'd had a few drinks at the time - I KNOW that Graeme Richardson tried to stop him saying it lol - that... "in the leadup to an election, for 3 weeks or so, I have to lick the ass of the voting public, but .. for the next 3 years, they can lick mine " (paraphrasing) - nice attitude Paul lol (and nearly every other poly imho

4. Just watch em deliberate over their next pay rise, while the rest of us sweat to keep up with inflation.

5. ahh what the heck - I wouldnt't swap em - enjoy havinga conscience that let's me sleep nights

barney · 5 December 2006

Did anyone see the blurb from Alan Jones re Kim Beasley today? (PS I am a swinging voter and never really thought KB was PM material; which has nothing to do with this comment anyway) Apparently KB was a rode scholar who achieved the highest distinction ever recorded at that Uni (impressive stuff) with regard to his analysis and submission of a certain topic (which I cant remember cause I was on my way somewhere when watching) .......... Bottom line of my rambling is that KB is one smart cookie (which I did not appreciate previously)

I remember early on in his career as opposition leader, he actually complimented John Howard re his views etc on something (which is unheard of in Oz politics) He was obviously "dragged over the coals" for that, and it never happened again ..... To me, KB was always acting (trying to be the bad guy) but it was never convincing because I dont think that is really his nature. ......

Anyway, I feel sorry for his loss (not the loss of the possible PM; his Brother) and I have a respect that I did not have b4 ...........

Bottom line ;I was judging the man without being properly informed ........... We are sometimes/often guilty of "following the herd" with regard to our opinions, when, in reality, we often have no right to make judgement because our opinions are not based in fact ................ I stand humbled (yet again) and it wont be the last time ...... Cheers to all, Barney.

barney · 5 December 2006

Re: BEAZELY GOOOONEEEE

chops_a_must said:
Pretty much. I think there is a stat that shows 95% of people vote the same way as their parents did. Probably the same stats with football supporters.

It calls for some philosophy.

Sapere Aude!

"Enlightenment is when a person leaves behind a state of immaturity and dependence for which he himself was responsible. Immaturity and dependence are the inability to use one's own intellect without the direction of another. One is responsible for this immaturity and dependence, if its cause is not a lack of intelligence or education, but a lack of determination and courage to think without the direction of another. Sapere aude! 'Have courage to use your own reason!' - that is the motto of enlightenment."

But as Kant says, some people certainly, and maybe as a culture as well, we will never reach a point of enlightenment at all.

Smart words from someone so/fairly (in comparison to me anyway) young. Well said Chops ..... Barney.

2020hindsight · 5 December 2006

barney said:
I remember early on in his career as opposition leader, he actually complimented John Howard re his views etc on something (which is unheard of in Oz politics) He was obviously "dragged over the coals" for that, and it never happened again .....

Barney howdy man.
I also recall John Howard just after taking over the role of opposition leader.. he said " I dont pretend to have a monopoly on wisdom. When the Govt (Keating) do something right I will agree with them".

It is SUCH clever politics... If you keep complaining (like Rudd does) even when it's "lineball" - almost a "fabricated penalty", that has to experience a media beatup to get any "legs", then we will all turn off in no time (imho)

But hell I agree that Kim, would've been a PM to be proud of.

PS CHOPS, "Does anyone else find it hilariously ironic that THEORIES of economics were developed by an empiricist? " mmm nope lol. to be honest my eyebrows just got tied in a knot trying to work it out lol. I dont really understand - it's gone over my head mate lol. Is an empiricist the same as a monarchist ? Sorry m8 - rule 1 line 1 - never take the piss out of someone's nicname or their motto But what the hek - it's happy hour lol. (empirically speaking, I find that my mischievous side goes into overdrive on the matter of stirring during happy hour )

chops_a_must · 5 December 2006

barney said:
Did anyone see the blurb from Alan Jones re Kim Beasley today? (PS I am a swinging voter and never really thought KB was PM material; which has nothing to do with this comment anyway) Apparently KB was a rode scholar who achieved the highest distinction ever recorded at that Uni (impressive stuff) with regard to his analysis and submission of a certain topic (which I cant remember cause I was on my way somewhere when watching) .......... Bottom line of my rambling is that KB is one smart cookie (which I did not appreciate previously)

Yeah, he did a PHD on the history of the Indian Ocean, I think, after getting record marks at UWA.

Interestingly, Geoff Gallop also did a rhodes scholarship after he got record marks at Murdoch University for philosophy. And whilst at Oxford, became good friends with Tony Blair. Their friendship breakdown post Iraq war, I am told is a big reason for his depression. Nope, he studied at UWA also, but lectured at MU, my bad.

Oh, and thanks for those kind words!

barney · 5 December 2006

Oh, and thanks for those kind words![/QUOTE]

You are more than welcome Chops .... Barney (PS are you a Drummer?)

20/20,
Howdy yourself, I appreciate what you say about "clever politics", but I am almost 100% sure when Kim Beasley made his comment re agreeing with JH, it was genuine ............ ( I was almost shocked, cause I'd never heard a politician do that (with conviction) b4 ................ Goodonya ... Barney.

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