BCS - BrisConnections Unit Trusts

[thermalmonster]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Hey GG

If I had bigger balls (or a very good Lawyer) I would form a company, put an add in the Australian.

"Wanted BCSCA shares, Administration fee 1 cent / share"
Go Bump

Then hold my hands up!

I am supprised no one has found a loop hole to scam this

 

[thermalmonster]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Calliope, I find your remarks quite insulting.

I actualy have run a sucessful business for over 15 years , however it has nothing to do with stocks or shares , Just Hard Graft.
And on another note, I am not the type of guy to get himself into debt and say " sod it Take me too the cleaners" and get away with out paying a penny.
I have worked bloody hard for everything I own, and dont appreciate a jummped up Pri*k like you telling me im nieve and making me out to be stupid.

Yes I got caught out in your country on your stock exchange, but dont you dare insult my intelligence or integrity.

 

[Julia]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

It is certainly a possibility if you could live with yourself.

You're just worried about 'living with yourself'? What about the potential stress and damage to the person to whom you're offloading them?

However there is bound to be individuals out there who would gladly go bust for 10K
They probably would have no assets to loose and snap your hand off for the opportunity.

Sure, they're just dying for the opportunity to have debt collectors after them, be taken to court etc. If they didn't have a crappy life before, this would sure as hell have it in the bag completely.

If you started a web site you would probably be inundated with offers.

" Earn cash fast" " sign here to recieve your cash payout"

Quite possibly so. And this would absolve you of any moral responsibility in the matter?

Joking apart if one individual decided to become a martyr for the BCSCA shareholders and took on the liability I cant see how the law could reverse it.

And you say this with exactly how much knowledge of the law in this regard?

After all, as stated before ,such an individual would have at least had the benifit of knowing what he/she is signing up for spelled out to them. Something us comsec users didnt have.

That is simply not true. Had you done the research you would have found the information.

My Dad is about to retire, he has no assets, Lives in rented and will have to rely on a state pension.

Puts him in the same category as thousands of others. We are where we are as a result of the decisions we have made on the whole.

I reckon he would consider the option of going bump for 50K.

Well, fine. If he will do this, at least you'll be keeping it in the family and not involving some other sucker.

Let maquirie try and find him in Portugal or spain or France, He would be like trying to find Lord Lucan. And if they did find him, what they going to reposses? his bedford rascal van?

I suspect you are underestimating the resources of debt collectors.
However, that is simply not the point. What you are suggesting is without any moral backing.

Letting someone sign up for theese shares who cant pay is no different to what comsec / BCSA have done.

Even after all this, you still don't have the share code correct!
As I've already said, as have others on this thread, that is just not true.
You failed to do the research.

Difference being some of us have a lot more at stake to loose.

On that principle, you could suggest everyone who has lost money in ABC Learning, MFS, Allco, B. & B. etc etc. who were small investors without the capacity to lose money would similarly be entitled to shove their debt off onto someone else. Why would that be fair?

Also if all those shares fell into the hands of one individual who had absolutely no capacity to repay the debt in a million years, it would be a huge UP YOURS ! to BCSCA and their underwriters who must surley know they will be liable in the end either way cos none of us can pay the installment

Thermalmonster, I've thus far been sympathetic to your situation, even defended you against criticism. I've felt Sunder and some others have been unreasonably harsh in their comments.
But any sympathy I had has now completely gone as I see you trying to justify behaving in a completely amoral way with the passing off of this debt to some poor ignorant desperate schmuk who will grab at any cash offer, their state of mind and general existence rendering them unable to comprehend all the likely repercussions.

So maybe they can't pay up. That doesn't mean they won't be put through the wringer over the debt.

You've suggested your father might jump at the chance of this wonderful opportunity. If he shares your dubious views and general morality then perhaps he will.

 

[thermalmonster]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Inegima

Yes your quite right, I suspect that big brother is already watching this space

(I also reckon GG works for MQG)

 

[thermalmonster]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

ey up Julia

Im not condoning the idea just discussing the legality of it and the fact that if the money was right there would be a few people lined up ready to take the hit.
I wouldnt inflict this on my dad not for $13k, although if i asked him he would probably do it for me, for my wife and kids sake.

Like I said before, Im a man of principal and unless I can sell theese shares on the ASX i will be defending it in court with Rocket & Bushie, My stance on this has not changed.
I am just discussing openly the loop holes that may or may not exist in possible ways to off load the Liability.
(I cant see myself wondering up and down the park for an alcoholic)
I find it extreemly intresting and the debate fascinating.

Did not MQG off load there shares by re listing all theirs on the ASX before the trading stopped?
I am sure they pay market anylists heaps to research this type of thing.

Incidently, the fact that I could still potentialy sell them on comsec with no disclosure of the $2.00 unpaid is just as bad as scouring the park for a drop out to by them in my mind

 

[sails]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

More people are killed carelessly walking into traffic than fall off cliffs? Why don't we put insurmountable fences on every walk way? Basically, because people are expected to show a due amount of care, and it is impractical to make everything completely safe. By its very nature, we NEED to have walk ways exposed to roads, for both walk ways and roads to function correctly...

LOL - wasn't thinking of insurmountable fences - perhaps just a simple safety net like requiring basic education and approvals similar to that which is currently required for derivative traders. Then, if they don't read the required info and still get into this sort of mess, it would be more likely to be seen as carelessness rather than being caught out.

Won't help those already unwittingly in the bcsca situation now, but might prevent unsuitable investors making this mistake.

It appears that few here at ASF actually trade options or warrants, but those that do would now exactly about approvals that are required before trading these different products.

Maybe it's not possible to implement this on contributing shares. However, I was surprised that I couldn't find much educational info on unit trusts or contributing shares on the ASX site. And yet they have a lot of educational material on options and warrants.

Just my thoughts

 

[thermalmonster]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Julia

If I invest in shares ( ABC or BBG Whatever ) I accept that risk. Im not complaining about the $500 i lost, its the $26k that was attached to it that I was not aware of that gets my goat !!!!!!
Why is it so hard for people to understand that their are folk " retail investors " out there dabbling on a whim, that can got caught up and still continue to get caught up!!

Look I am in construction ok, This is my analogy.
I dig a bloody great excavation, I put a small sign up saying " Danger deep excavation" everyone knows to stay well away, but some people still go and play near the excavation. They fall in... Hurt themselves,. I would expect to get sued because i did not fence the excavation.
The people selling those shares should have fenced the excavation to stop idiots like me from falling in !!
FACT !!

 

[Calliope]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

I have worked bloody hard for everything I own, and dont appreciate a jummped up Pri*k like you telling me im nieve and making me out to be stupid.

Yes I got caught out in your country on your stock exchange, but dont you dare insult my intelligence or integrity.

I don't know about your integrity. As for your stupidity, you told us about that. Stop blaming others, and try to do something about you potty mouth.

 

[thermalmonster]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Like I said in the above post, must be a fair few" idiots" on this Forum that bought the shares, and people patronising you gives you potty mouth!

 

[steve999]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

I have been following this thread and I find it interesting that people who purchased the shares are being told, bad luck you bought them, it's your fault etc. But if they try to think of a way to offload them to somebody else then they are being immoral. Shouldn't that be the buyer's problem? After all, buyer beware.

Also, if somebody is already up for $2million and the only solution is bankruptcy, they could buy all of the shares currently for sale instead. For only $120k you could own 30% of the shares (plus $240 million extra debt) . A bit like Fang He but even more impressive.

 

[prawn_86]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

I have been following this thread and I find it interesting that people who purchased the shares are being told, bad luck you bought them, it's your fault etc. But if they try to think of a way to offload them to somebody else then they are being immoral. Shouldn't that be the buyer's problem? After all, buyer beware..

I agree totally. Buyer beware, thats capitalism. Capitalism doesnt involve many 'morals' and thats for the individual to decide how far they are willing to go, within the scope of the law. And i would think if someone agreed to take on the shares at a price, then thats within the law, even if they cant pay the debt.

Also, if somebody is already up for $2million and the only solution is bankruptcy, they could buy all of the shares currently for sale instead. For only $120k you could own 30% of the shares (plus $240 million extra debt) . A bit like Fang He but even more impressive.

You could actually get paid to 'buy' these shares. Many of the holders on this thread have indicated they are willing to pay others to take them off thier hands, so you could probably own 30% without spending a cent (until you had to cough up the next contribution...)

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Inegima

Yes your quite right, I suspect that big brother is already watching this space

(I also reckon GG works for MQG)

LOL.

Have a look at the MQG posts over the years.

gg

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Julia

If I invest in shares ( ABC or BBG Whatever ) I accept that risk. Im not complaining about the $500 i lost, its the $26k that was attached to it that I was not aware of that gets my goat !!!!!!
Why is it so hard for people to understand that their are folk " retail investors " out there dabbling on a whim, that can got caught up and still continue to get caught up!!

Look I am in construction ok, This is my analogy.
I dig a bloody great excavation, I put a small sign up saying " Danger deep excavation" everyone knows to stay well away, but some people still go and play near the excavation. They fall in... Hurt themselves,. I would expect to get sued because i did not fence the excavation.
The people selling those shares should have fenced the excavation to stop idiots like me from falling in !!
FACT !!

You are in a state of grief.

Harden up mate and get on with your life.

gg

 

[sails]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

... You could actually get paid to 'buy' these shares. Many of the holders on this thread have indicated they are willing to pay others to take them off thier hands, so you could probably own 30% without spending a cent (until you had to cough up the next contribution...)

LOL Prawn - careful - you might give ideas to seminar spruikers of the future. Can picture it now - on their soapboxes excitedly explaining to an awestruck audience on how you could actually own 30% of a company without paying a cent...

Of course they either wouldn't mention about the next contribution or brush it off glibly saying to simply sell before it is due

 

[Prospector]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

So, can I just confirm here. There is no space in Capitalism for morals or ethics? No wonder western society is screwed. And why when someone shows ethics and morals in their business it gets noticed.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

So, can I just confirm here. There is no space in Capitalism for morals or ethics? No wonder western society is screwed. And why when someone shows ethics and morals in their business it gets noticed.

I must disagree.

There is no space in any system for stupidity or plain bad luck.

Both get punished under capitalism or any other system.

gg

 

[awg]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

I think the point is not so much in avoiding liability, its more about passing it on to someone who is willing to take on that liability for a price, and would then subsequently have to declare bankruptcy.

I dont think starting a company would have any benefit, as a director can still be liable if they do not carry out their 'duties', which in this case, buying up millions of dollars worth of debt and knowing they are doing so is probably a failure of their duties.

Offer me $1mill cash and i'll think about taking them all off your hands or could find someone that would...

I must disagree.

There is no space in any system for stupidity or plain bad luck.

Both get punished under capitalism or any other system.

gg

I think that there is space for stupidity and bad luck in our system.

example, people regularly break their necks diving into very shallow water, then sue the council successfully for millions (of our money).

With regards to the BrisC, my personal feeling is that it IS something the regulators should and probably will look at.

How can it be that a million $ debt is acquired in such a fashion.

it simply is not good for any party.

I dont think morality or ethics should be abandoned in ANY system, some sort of balance needs to be sought, although ultimately legality will prevail.

You simply cant outlaw naivety, stupidity, carelessness etc.

I personally would pursue legal and accounting advice, in conjunction with the other affected people.

I would make sure that I did not communicate any highly relevant information via email, in writing, or especially public forum. I would talk in person over the phone, a phone number of a lawyer has been provided by an earlier poster

I believe the info I have contributed, may allow a way forward, one would need to ensure all relevant company law was followed, and be conversant with ASIC regs and Share registry policy.

I am not a holder of BrisC and have no axe to grind here.

I stress that I do not advise any person to embark on a course of action that would breach any law of the land.

I do feel sorry for those caught up, and believe if their is a LEGAL way out, for them, then why should they not exercise it?

the morals and ethics have to be determined by each individual.

Regretably, their will be a lot of people going bankrupt in the near future for a variety of reasons, many of them will have been skating on thin ice for a long time, maybe they want to go out with a bangartyman:

 

[Prospector]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

I agree totally. Buyer beware, thats capitalism. Capitalism doesnt involve many 'morals' and thats for the individual to decide how far they are willing to go, within the scope of the law.

If the basis of Capitalism is buyer beware, then why have Consumer protection laws? Why have Compulsory Inspection reports on properties? Why do some online trading companies offer warnings before final purchase? Why have compulsory cooling off periods on some contracts? It seems that it is not always 'buyer beware' at all.

 

[prawn_86]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

If the basis of Capitalism is buyer beware, then why have Consumer protection laws? Why have Compulsory Inspection reports on properties? Why do some online trading companies offer warnings before final purchase? Why have compulsory cooling off periods on some contracts? It seems that it is not always 'buyer beware' at all.

My qupte said "within the scope of the law". All that you have mentioned above are laws to protect people, but if you can do something within the scope of the law (selling your shares to a bum) and are happy with it morally, then thats just capitalism

 

[steve999]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

I personally believe there should be consumer protection laws and that it shouldn't be possible to take on millions in debt from a $500 share purchase. Regardless of whether it is legal or not, I'm not a fan of letting people unintenionally ruin their lives. However, if I did happen to own these shares I would do whatever I could legally to get rid of the shares.

People should be allowed to make small mistakes, or make informed large mistakes.