BCS - BrisConnections Unit Trusts

[mazzatelli1000]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Callous as it may sound you need to separate investment decisions from life events.

I have a relative with mental illness and I agree it is difficult.


When one invests one takes on risk.

If you are ill informed then you may win or lose.

Greed lay at your decision to invest in Brisconnect

Blind Freddie would have known it was pit. AFR, Australian, Daily Telegraph WA News.

You were driven by your instincts and you lost.

Tough

cheerio

gg

You must be feeling good you dont own bcsca shares eh
All high and mighty there

 

[grace]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

You must be feeling good you dont own bcsca shares eh
All high and mighty there

A lot of qld government employees have their super with qsuper (I think that is what it is called). They have a very large exposure to Brisconnections. They took quite a large holding on the float, and have the payments still to make.

A lot of people who have never heard of Brisconnections are going to be affected in a bad way when they read their super reports for the next few years.

It is one stock that I have read about in the newspaper from time to time. I did not invest as I expected the float was never going to go well in this sought of climate.

I did read many stories over the time about the price dropping and so on. I think it may have been on Inside Business one Sunday on the ABC also.

Luckily I had read enough to not go near it.

I feel sorry for those who have their super invested with large exposure to this. They didn't press the buy button either. So called professionals gave advice to qsuper to buy these. Good advice - not.

I think I recall reading where qsuper had some $40 million, so I guess they have another $80million to pay up.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Prospector]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Go into business mates.

Rent a place.

Have employees.

Try to satisfy customers.

Have the banks on your back.

Stand in a shop with a stock value of $2m and have 3 people walk per day in and say I'm just browsing.

And smile.


That is what a mate of mine is doing at present.

It is capitalism.

These silly Brisconnect folk are getting off lightly.

gg

Dont know much about me then, do you GG.
As a business owner (for the last 15 years) and with employees one of the first things in business is to have stock or trade that people want to buy. Gosh, we even pay rent. Banks? The Banks come to us with products. We have always traded in profit to the extent that the ATO owes us around $60K in franking credits, and we have enough cash in the Bank to last us for six months without a sale. Double So you see, it isnt about capitalism, it is about the way you use capitalism.

And weren't you the one who was offering to buy these off people a few days before Christmas? Has that happened yet?

A lot of qld government employees have their super with qsuper (I think that is what it is called). They have a very large exposure to Brisconnections. They took quite a large holding on the float, and have the payments still to make.

Ah, I was wondering if Super Funds would be caught up in this. The only thing in their favour if they bought in the float was that they would have bought fewer shares at the float price of $1 than these people are doing now at less than a cent. It makes their initial purchase now worthless, but at least they know the debt they bought from the PDS.

 

[cuttlefish]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

I have sympathy UNTIL the people who made the original mistake are then more than happy to drag anyone else into it to save their own butt.

I have sympathy regardless - people aren't perfect - but I agree that it doesn't help the cause if people are perceived to be willing to pass the buck onto the next unsuspecting punter.

This is also the reason I'm of the view that the stock should be suspended. The only investors that would be in a position to buy any quantity of this stock at the moment are multi-millionaire retail investors with a spare million that they think worth investing in a toll road development, or an institution or fund. Any investor of this ilk would not purchase the stock on market - they would be well aware that there are people desparate to get out and so would find a way to take acquire the parcels they need for no financial outlay (or even be partly paid to take some of them in exactly the way that GG has been alluding to.)

Thus in my opinion the only people that would make the active decision to purchase BCSCA on-market at the moment would be uninformed retail investors that are purchasing a whole lot of headache.

This is why I'm of the view the stock should be suspended - it is like a landmine sitting there waiting for retail investors to step on it. Any investor willing to invest a million dollars in BCS is not going to be doing it on market and the minimum amount that can be purchased is $1 million worth.

 

[sails]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

A lot of qld government employees have their super with qsuper (I think that is what it is called). They have a very large exposure to Brisconnections. They took quite a large holding on the float, and have the payments still to make.

A lot of people who have never heard of Brisconnections are going to be affected in a bad way when they read their super reports for the next few years.

It is one stock that I have read about in the newspaper from time to time. I did not invest as I expected the float was never going to go well in this sought of climate.

I did read many stories over the time about the price dropping and so on. I think it may have been on Inside Business one Sunday on the ABC also.

Luckily I had read enough to not go near it.

I feel sorry for those who have their super invested with large exposure to this. They didn't press the buy button either. So called professionals gave advice to qsuper to buy these. Good advice - not.

I think I recall reading where qsuper had some $40 million, so I guess they have another $80million to pay up.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

QSuper has over $23B in funds http://qsuper.qld.gov.au/members/aboutus/
- so it won't make a big dent even if bcsca should fail. I thought I saw on the qsuper site that Macquarie Investment Management is one of their fund managers but can't find that page again now.

Even if Qsuper were initially invested, they could just as easily have sold before it got so low. Can't find any reference to it on the Qsuper site - maybe haven't found the right web page.

 

[thermalmonster]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

No Takers again today for the BCSCA shares,
Just More listed for sale :-(

Can anyone recall any other Company on the ASX that has seen so few Trades? or is this a president.

Just curious

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Dont know much about me then, do you GG.
As a business owner (for the last 15 years) and with employees one of the first things in business is to have stock or trade that people want to buy. Gosh, we even pay rent. Banks? The Banks come to us with products. We have always traded in profit to the extent that the ATO owes us around $60K in franking credits, and we have enough cash in the Bank to last us for six months without a sale. Double So you see, it isnt about capitalism, it is about the way you use capitalism.

And weren't you the one who was offering to buy these off people a few days before Christmas? Has that happened yet?


Ah, I was wondering if Super Funds would be caught up in this. The only thing in their favour if they bought in the float was that they would have bought fewer shares at the float price of $1 than these people are doing now at less than a cent. It makes their initial purchase now worthless, but at least they know the debt they bought from the PDS.

I'm unsure as to the legality of buying stocks on a stock forum.
probably not kosher.

These folk were ignorant and greedy.

I'd never try to run your business , I'd go broke quite soon.

These folk made a mistake.

They are not alone.

It is the final chapter in the end of a bullrun.

So lets look at our charts and not quibble.

gg

 

[Sunder]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Fences are built in public places to stop the general public falling over cliffs, etc. I don't see the difference.

More people are killed carelessly walking into traffic than fall off cliffs? Why don't we put insurmountable fences on every walk way? Basically, because people are expected to show a due amount of care, and it is impractical to make everything completely safe. By its very nature, we NEED to have walk ways exposed to roads, for both walk ways and roads to function correctly

This was not an inherently dangerous event. Plenty of contributing shares have been issued before with no problems. This happened not due to a lack of concern for "safety", but due to unusual circumstances combined with carelessness of the buyer. By it's very nature, contributing shares need to be exposed to retail investors, otherwise there wouldn't really be a need to stagger the payments. The business needs money in steps, and they're looking for investors who are willing to pay for it in steps, and that usually means retail investors.

I've known of someone who died because they were SMSing while crossing the road. It's unfortunate. I feel for their family and friends. By no means would I say that death is a fair penalty for being a bit absent minded... But that's life. I don't advocate that fences be put around every single walk way to stop this happening again. I don't propose that his family should sue the council to offload responsibility onto the taxpayer or anyone else.

I feel sorry for people who bought without doing research. However, it's now their consequence, not for anyone else to take, neither by changing the laws, nor by recompensing them for their mistake.

 

[outback]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

I wonder how old mate here feels now?

http://https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13063

 

[thermalmonster]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Cant open that link what was it about?

 

[Stormin_Norman]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

http//www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13063

 

[outback]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Sorry try this one.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13063

 

[awg]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

I must state that parkies and derros have been unfairly targeted in this debate.

Many of these folk are like you and I, with dreams and expectations for their and fanilies future.

Bad luck, addiction or mental illness have left them to fend on the streets.

Pease do not inflict your poor investment decisions on them.

Day to day existence is a trial for them.

They do not need Macquarie after them.

gg

Its called capitalism.

And it happens daily.

Get real.

gg

i dont think you even need a brokerage of any kind to arrange an "off-market TX".

I believe all necessary arrangements can be completed via the share registry.

at no cost

an SRN will then be assigned to the new owner.

i think it would be wise to ensure the payment was completed electronically by debit from account to account, for proof of genuine transfer.

I dont think it would be wise to use someone who is already bankrupt, as this may not be legal.

I doubt bankruptcy/legal action would be pursued against a derelict.

you just need to start scouring the railway stations/hostels.

sounds terrible I know, and I would only even consider it myself, if i felt sure the person understood that their would be a downside, but they still wanted the cash NOW bad enough.

I know for a fact $2000 ( for instance) would be a fortune for some people.

any sort of legal matter would bleed you dry

I could be incorrect about some of the above statements.

I reiterate, I do not recommend this approach, as such, and would definitely seek legal advice before I went down this track, as well as soul-searching, I only put forward the notion as a possibility

Hi GG an all,

I dont think I unfairly targeted the parkies and derros.

Its called Capitalism.

one offers a Fee for a Service.

In my post and previous, I think I made it clear that the moral dimension is definitely to be considered.

I would not wish to inflict my loss on someone else, without recompense.
I consider that to be the same as stealing

You may notice, I did not suggest junkies, as they would generally be younger, and may have future prospects for recovery.

I want to be perfectly clear that I meant to suggest chronic old alcoholics, with no financial prospects. (One could even refine ones search more specifically, but you will have to use your imaginations)

This may sound callous, and may be morally or even legally improper, that is for others to judge.

But for the right individuals my transaction may well represent a GOOD DEAL for both sides.

The very essence of Capitalism

 

[thermalmonster]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

It is certainly a possibility if you could live with yourself.

However there is bound to be individuals out there who would gladly go bust for 10K
They probably would have no assets to loose and snap your hand off for the opportunity.

If you started a web site you would probably be inundated with offers.

" Earn cash fast" " sign here to recieve your cash payout"

Joking apart if one individual decided to become a martar for the BCSCA shareholders and took on the lability I cant see how the law could reverse it.
After all, as stated before ,such an individual would have at least had the benifit of knowing what he/she is signing up for spelled out to them. Something us comsec users didnt have.
My Dad is about to retire, he has no assets, Lives in rented and will have to rely on a state pension.
I reckon he would consider the option of going bump for 50K.
Let maquirie try and find him in Portugal or spain or France, He would be like trying to find Lord Lucan. And if they did find him, what they going to reposses? his bedford rascal van?

Letting someone sign up for theese shares who cant pay is no different to what comsec / BCSA have done.
Difference being some of us have a lot more at stake to loose.
Also if all those shares fell into the hands of one individual who had absolutely no capacity to repay the debt in a million years, it would be a huge UP YOURS ! to BCSCA and their underwriters who must surley know they will be liable in the end either way cos none of us can pay the installment

 

[thermalmonster]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

I also think thats why they have been selling off as much of their liability as they can, knowing its all going to bounce back to them anyway.

 

[awg]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

It is certainly a possibility if you could live with yourself.

However there is bound to be individuals out there who would gladly go bust for 10K
They probably would have no assets to loose and snap your hand off for the opportunity.

If you started a web site you would probably be inundated with offers.

" Earn cash fast" " sign here to recieve your cash payout"

Joking apart if one individual decided to become a martar for the BCSCA shareholders and took on the lability I cant see how the law could reverse it.
After all, as stated before ,such an individual would have at least had the benifit of knowing what he/she is signing up for spelled out to them. Something us comsec users didnt have.
My Dad is about to retire, he has no assets, Lives in rented and will have to rely on a state pension.
I reckon he would consider the option of going bump for 50K.
Let maquirie try and find him in Portugal or spain or France, He would be like trying to find Lord Lucan. And if they did find him, what they going to reposses? his bedford rascal van?

Letting someone sign up for theese shares who cant pay is no different to what comsec / BCSA have done.
Difference being some of us have a lot more at stake to loose.
Also if all those shares fell into the hands of one individual who had absolutely no capacity to repay the debt in a million years, it would be a huge UP YOURS ! to BCSCA and their underwriters who must surley know they will be liable in the end either way cos none of us can pay the installment

I think you may have hit on quite a good idea, one that actually occured to me after my last post.

Let one person buy up the shares via off-market transfer, even better form a company first, get paid some fees, of course.

I re-state that I am unsure of the legal and logistical practicalities, but some legal and accounting opinion would be obtainable.

You may be able to PM some of the other afflicted individuals on this forums, to pool your resources in that respect.

I strongly suspect this solution has been adopted by many caught in this situation, but they are keeping quiet, which is probably wise.

I also suspect the whole project may get canned anyway, as it may be financially non-viable

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

I think you may have hit on quite a good idea, one that actually occured to me after my last post.

Let one person buy up the shares via off-market transfer, even better form a company first, get paid some fees, of course.

I re-state that I am unsure of the legal and logistical practicalities, but some legal and accounting opinion would be obtainable.

You may be able to PM some of the other afflicted individuals on this forums, to pool your resources in that respect.

I strongly suspect this solution has been adopted by many caught in this situation, but they are keeping quiet, which is probably wise.

I also suspect the whole project may get canned anyway, as it may be financially non-viable

Agree awg, this one lemon that could get squeezed.

I've been burnt on too many Govt/Private enterprise partnerships though to be surprised at Brisconnect.

Put the squeeze on the biggest pockets you can find.

Best of luck and a happy NY.

gg

 

[Calliope]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

I think you may have hit on quite a good idea, one that actually occured to me after my last post.

Let one person buy up the shares via off-market transfer, even better form a company first, get paid some fees, of course.

I hope you are not suggesting that some one as naive as T/monster, could set up a company.

He does not even have the common sense to read a company's ASX announcements (readily accessible on ComSec), before buying their shares. Now he tries to lay the blame on Brisconnect, ComSec, and the ASX for his own carelessness and greed.

 

[inenigma]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

It is certainly a possibility if you could live with yourself.

However there is bound to be individuals out there who would gladly go bust for 10K
They probably would have no assets to loose and snap your hand off for the opportunity.

Letting someone sign up for theese shares who cant pay is no different to what comsec / BCSA have done.

Also if all those shares fell into the hands of one individual who had absolutely no capacity to repay the debt in a million years, it would be a huge UP YOURS ! to BCSCA and their underwriters who must surley know they will be liable in the end either way cos none of us can pay the installment

I also think thats why they have been selling off as much of their liability as they can, knowing its all going to bounce back to them anyway.

I think you may have hit on quite a good idea, one that actually occured to me after my last post.

Let one person buy up the shares via off-market transfer, even better form a company first, get paid some fees, of course.

I re-state that I am unsure of the legal and logistical practicalities, but some legal and accounting opinion would be obtainable.

You may be able to PM some of the other afflicted individuals on this forums, to pool your resources in that respect.

I strongly suspect this solution has been adopted by many caught in this situation, but they are keeping quiet, which is probably wise.

I also suspect the whole project may get canned anyway, as it may be financially non-viable

Methinks I'll let someone else take up the venture listed above.. I suspect that if anyone did take up the above suggestions, then this post could be used extensively in any litigation

 

[prawn_86]

Re: Brisconnections shareholders - financial ruin

Methinks I'll let someone else take up the venture listed above.. I suspect that if anyone did take up the above suggestions, then this post could be used extensively in any litigation

I think the point is not so much in avoiding liability, its more about passing it on to someone who is willing to take on that liability for a price, and would then subsequently have to declare bankruptcy.

I dont think starting a company would have any benefit, as a director can still be liable if they do not carry out their 'duties', which in this case, buying up millions of dollars worth of debt and knowing they are doing so is probably a failure of their duties.

Offer me $1mill cash and i'll think about taking them all off your hands or could find someone that would...