Barack Obama!

[ZzzzDad]

Re: Barack 2008!

GWB did not win the popular vote in 2000. There were 'problems' with the new voting machines in Florida (his brother was governor - a mere coincidence!?) and the decision went to Congress - who used their 'conscience votes'.

This time more people have been motivated to have an opinion and actually get out on their work day, in cold weather, to record their opinion.

- Oh - don't forget the Swiftboating contribution! Nasty Repug-lians!

Doris - you are really winging it. You don't really know what happened in 2000, do you? The decision did NOT go the CONGRESS, it went to the U.S. Supreme Court. The reason it went to the U.S. Supreme court was because the Democrats took it to the Florida courts, and the Democrat appointed Florida Supreme court was going to allow the Democrats to do a partial recount in a few Democrat controlled counties, using inconsistent standards of what was considered a vote. Hanging chads here, pregnant chads there. The U.S. Supreme Court didn't give the election to Democrats, they required that they do a statewide recount, not pick and choose counties where they thought they could mine votes. The Democrats didn't want that - because they knew they would lose. After the election, a group of media outlets went down to prove Bush had really lost, but, lo and behold Bush won whatever way the vote was counted.

And Repuglians? Thanks a lot for that. Somehow, I thought the discourse on this board was above that. At least I had hoped so.

 

[deadset]

Re: Barack 2008!

Nothing wrong with good intentions, only those that complain about them, that's when you say NO PROBLEM, and get out of there. There are good intentions and conditional intentions with a mind to change course midstream, that's the difference.

"Good intentions line the road to hell"
and
"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me."

----------

I actually looked up the odds on betfair today, $1.60 for Obama, $2.52 for McCain.

Looks like an interesting rest of the year.

 

[Doris]

Re: Barack 2008!

My mistake sleepy dad. I was wrong on the arbitrator. It was the Supreme Court.

It's convenient that the president appoints the Supreme Court judges!

On January 6, 2001, a joint-session of Congress met to certify the electoral vote. (see below)

In the aftermath of the election, independent recounts were conducted by The Miami Herald and USA Today, concluding that Bush would have won in all legally requested recount scenarios, and in all other scenarios except for "a fresh recount in all counties using the most generous standards,” which would have gone to Gore.

Grab a coffee, put your feet up and read:

Q: How do you save a supreme court judge from drowning?
A: Take your foot off his head!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election,_2000

United States presidential election, 2000 Florida results

At approximately 7:50 pm EST on election day, 10 minutes before the polls closed in the largely Republican Florida panhandle, some television news networks declared that Gore had carried Florida's 25 electoral votes. They based this prediction on exit polls. However, in the actual vote tally Bush took a wide early lead in Florida, and by 10 pm the networks had retracted their prediction of a Gore victory and placed Florida back into the "undecided" column. At approximately 2:30 am, with some 85% of the votes counted in Florida and Bush leading Gore by more than 100,000 votes, the networks declared that Bush had carried Florida, and had been elected President. However, most of the remaining votes to be counted in Florida were located in three heavily Democratic counties - Broward, Miami-Dade, and Palm Beach - and as their votes were reported Gore began to gain on Bush. By 4:30 am Gore had narrowed Bush's margin to less than 2,000 votes, and the networks retracted their predictions that Bush had won Florida and the Presidency. Gore, who had privately conceded the election to Bush, now withdrew his concession and announced that he would wait for a recount in Florida before any further action. By the morning of Wednesday, November 8 Bush's margin in Florida had dwindled to about 500 votes, narrow enough to trigger a mandatory recount in that state. In addition, Gore asked for hand recounts in four counties (Broward, Miami Dade, Palm Beach, and Volusia), as provided under Florida state law. This set into motion a series of recounts (portions by machine, and portions by hand), questions about portions of the Florida vote, and finally lawsuits.

These ultimately resulted in a December 12 7-2 United States Supreme Court decision that the Florida Supreme Court's scheme for recounting ballots was unconstitutional, as well as a 5-4 United States Supreme Court decision that ended the Florida recounts and allowed Florida to certify its vote. The vote was certified by Katherine Harris, the Republican Secretary of State who had been the Florida co-chair of Bush's own campaign. Because Bush's younger brother, Jeb Bush, was the governor of Florida, there were allegations that Harris and Bush had somehow manipulated the election to favor the governor's brother. Bush's margin of victory in Florida was officially placed at 537 votes (out of more than 5.8 million cast), making it the closest presidential election in the history of the state. The nine members of the Supreme Court voted along ideological lines in the split decision with the two usually conservative swing voters (Justices O'Connor and Kennedy) siding with the three conservatives (Chief Justice Rehnquist and Justices Scalia, and Thomas) outvoting the Court's four liberals (Justices Ginsburg, Souter, Stevens, and Breyer). Due to all of these factors, the 2000 presidential campaign has become one of the most controversial, and disputed, elections in American history.

Post recount

After Florida was decided, Texas Governor George W. Bush became President-elect and began forming his transition committee. In a speech on December 13, Bush said he was reaching across party lines to bridge a divided America, stating that "the President of the United States is the President of every single American, of every race, and every background."

On January 6, 2001, a joint-session of Congress met to certify the electoral vote. Twenty members of the House of Representatives, most of them Democratic members of the Congressional Black Caucus, rose one-by-one to file objections to the electoral votes of Florida. However, according to an 1877 law, any such objection had to be sponsored by both a representative and a senator, and no senator would co-sponsor these objections. Therefore, Gore, who was presiding in his capacity as President of the Senate, ruled each of these objections out of order.

Bush took the oath of office on January 20, 2001.

In the aftermath of the election, independent recounts were conducted by The Miami Herald and USA Today, concluding that Bush would have won in all legally requested recount scenarios, and in all other scenarios except for "a fresh recount in all counties using the most generous standards,” which would have gone to Gore.

Additionally, The Media Consortium hired the National Opinion Research Center to examine 175,010 ballots that were never counted in Florida. The investigation took 8 months and cost $900,000. Their results showed that the winning candidate varied based on the method used to include or interpret ballots. For cases where all of their examiners agreed, the nine different recount scenarios resulted in Bush prevailing four times, and Gore prevailing in the other five. Ironically enough, under the recount rules initially requested by Gore, Bush would have won, and under the rules requested by Bush, Gore would have won.

National results

Though Gore came in second in the electoral vote, he received 543,816 more individual votes than Bush. Gore failed to win the popular vote in his home state, Tennessee, which both he and his father had represented in the Senate. Had he won Tennessee, he could have won the election without Florida. Gore was the first major-party presidential candidate to have lost his home state since George McGovern lost South Dakota in 1972.

Electronic voting

Since the Presidential Election was so close in Florida, the United States Government and state governments pushed for election reform to be prepared by the 2004 United States Presidential Election. Many of Florida's year 2000 election night problems stemmed from voting machine issues like rejected ballots, "hanging chad", and the possibly confusing "butterfly ballot". A proposed solution to these problems was the installation of modern electronic voting machines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_ballot


The United States Supreme Court voted 7–2 to end the recount on the grounds that differing standards in different counties constituted an equal protection violation, and 5–4 that no new recount with uniform standards could be conducted within the time available. The 7–2 ruling was more important as the votes had already been counted several times with uniform standards. However, the 5–4 decision became extremely controversial due to the partisan split in the court's 5–4 decision and the majority's irregular instruction that its judgment in Bush v. Gore should not set precedent but should be "limited to the present circumstances". Gore publicly disagreed with the court's decision, but conceded the election.

 

[Doris]

Re: Barack 2008!

And Repuglians? Thanks a lot for that. Somehow, I thought the discourse on this board was above that. At least I had hoped so.

Meant facetiously...

But I do reproach Republicans as repugnant and reprove their reprehensible reprimand for reproachful repression of respectable middle class and repudiate their reprobation of those they represent.

Too late. Repentant reprisal required to reposit Democrats.

 

[noirua]

Re: Barack 2008!

Meant facetiously...

But I do reproach Republicans as repugnant and reprove their reprehensible reprimand for reproachful repression of respectable middle class and repudiate their reprobation of those they represent.

Too late. Repentant reprisal required to reposit Democrats.

Hi Doris, I see you are really saying "up your's", to the Republicans.
A bit of naughty behavior by a certain lady in the upper house, tut tut, that's Democrats for you.
They only want the respectable middle class around to publicize future tax breaks, that goes for both sides.

Obama is happy with the system as he could propose, if future President, lots of tax breaks and an expensive health service option: Knowing all the time that Congress won't vote it through.

McCain won't go for a health service option as he doesn't want to. It wouldn't get through anyway.

Who's being honest, "NO ONE".

 

[2020hindsight]

Re: Barack 2008!

My mistake sleepy dad. ..

like the kids say ..
"my bad, dad ..."

 

[Green08]

Re: Barack 2008!

noirua

"Obama is happy with the system as he could propose, if future President, lots of tax breaks and an expensive health service

McCain won't go for a health service option as he doesn't want to. It wouldn't get through anyway."


With the amount of money they are printing

(How many trees are felled for this and the amount of co2 in the air, they should be liable to pay carbon credits to print money!)

They could very well of set up a functioning health system. Of course McCain won't support anything which would help the people. Kill them in their own country or the next war, all he cares about is himself almost like a vendetta towards humans from his days in Vietnam. Remember his personal millions courteous of Cindy's family. And the WIFE he left in a wheel chair.

Wouldn't it be nice if he ended up in hospital next to a real worker as in the
Bucket List.

 

[noirua]

Re: Barack 2008!

noirua

"Obama is happy with the system as he could propose, if future President, lots of tax breaks and an expensive health service

McCain won't go for a health service option as he doesn't want to. It wouldn't get through anyway."


With the amount of money they are printing

(How many trees are felled for this and the amount of co2 in the air, they should be liable to pay carbon credits to print money!)

They could very well of set up a functioning health system. Of course McCain won't support anything which would help the people. Kill them in their own country or the next war, all he cares about is himself almost like a vendetta towards humans from his days in Vietnam. Remember his personal millions courteous of Cindy's family. And the WIFE he left in a wheel chair.

Wouldn't it be nice if he ended up in hospital next to a real worker as in the
Bucket List.

Hi Green08, not all banknotes are made of paper. Australian notes are made of polymer, for instance.

I'm sure the time spent by John McCain in captivity was enough time in prison. Barack Obama has stated his respect for the man in acknowledging him and what he suffered.

All of us are flawed in some respects and the Presidential candidates also.

 

[Green08]

Re: Barack 2008!

not all banknotes are made of paper. Australian notes are made of polymer, for instance.

They say you can't do much to the Australian Note. Though I did iron one once and it shrank! Just like Monopoly money thanks goodness it was a $5

 

[Doris]

Re: Barack 2008!

Obama is happy with the system as he could propose, if future President, lots of tax breaks and an expensive health service option: Knowing all the time that Congress won't vote it through.

McCain won't go for a health service option as he doesn't want to. It wouldn't get through anyway.

Who's being honest, "NO ONE".

Have you looked at Obama's health plan on his website?
Barack uses his time efficiently - what a croc that he would waste time playing games with bills!

I knew that McCain's plan was to tax employers' health care fees for their employees but was interested to hear the figures from Biden in the debate.

Tax employers on the $12k benefits package - that's a neutral fiscal deal! Not!
But as Biden claimed, employers would abandon the inclusion of health care in their employees' contracts.
People would thus be replacing their current $12k medical insurance with McCain's $5k tax credit.

This does not solve the hospital crisis, especially in emergencies, for the unemployed.
This doesn't solve the crisis for people who don't have employer-sponsored health insurance.

Doctors in Australia are paid for their overtime but in the US they aren't.
Fair pay for doctors! Health insurance for everyone in America!

 

[noirua]

Re: Barack 2008!

Have you looked at Obama's health plan on his website?
Barack uses his time efficiently - what a croc that he would waste time playing games with bills!

I knew that McCain's plan was to tax employers' health care fees for their employees but was interested to hear the figures from Biden in the debate.

Tax employers on the $12k benefits package - that's a neutral fiscal deal! Not!
But as Biden claimed, employers would abandon the inclusion of health care in their employees' contracts.
People would thus be replacing their current $12k medical insurance with McCain's $5k tax credit.

This does not solve the hospital crisis, especially in emergencies, for the unemployed.
This doesn't solve the crisis for people who don't have employer-sponsored health insurance.

Doctors in Australia are paid for their overtime but in the US they aren't.
Fair pay for doctors! Health insurance for everyone in America!

Interesting, however, there will not be any money available for the health service options, what ever they are. Japan has tried to rid themselves of a 20-odd-year decline and has not succeeded yet. Stock market index hit 38,000 and all this time later is only around 15,000.

 

[2020hindsight]

Re: Barack 2008!

might as well post this - polls immediately before the VP debate..
Obama with a handy lead...

Incidentally, bookies' odds remained unchanged "through" the VP debate.

Maybe a tennis anology...
Like Wimbleton, looks like it was "one of those games played on the outer courts". Although it may well affect things in the future when the teams stand together for "the doubles". OBama / Biden side by side ; and McCain/ Palin ditto.

http://www.easyodds.com/compareodds/specials/Politics/m/147587-234-5.html
Obama 9/20 ($1.45)
McCain 11/4 ($3.75)

http://www.gallup.com/poll/107674/Interactive-Graph-Follow-General-Election.aspx

 

[ZzzzDad]

Re: Barack 2008!

Obama Youth



Poor sweet innocent children.


This is scary stuff folks. Look at the faces of some of these sweet innocent children. What are their parents thinking?

I've got four children, and of course they know my viewpoints, but I would NEVER make them do something like this.

Someone on another forum said this reminded him of the Pied Piper. It is even worse - this is real.

 

[Knobby22]

Re: Barack 2008!

Obama Youth



Poor sweet innocent children.


This is scary stuff folks. Look at the faces of some of these sweet innocent children. What are their parents thinking?

I've got four children, and of course they know my viewpoints, but I would NEVER make them do something like this.

Someone on another forum said this reminded him of the Pied Piper. It is even worse - this is real.

Have to agree.
Amaturish but nevertheless wrong. Young children shouldn't be used like this.

 

[Doris]

Re: Barack 2008!

Obama, McCain help House pass financial bill

Numerous lawmakers said it's far from clear that the bailout plan will work and politicians who support it may have a lot of explaining to do if it falls flat.

Obama and McCain helped House leaders round up votes for Friday's passage of a $700 billion financial rescue plan, and Obama's role seemed particularly energetic, Democrats said.

Obama "made numerous calls" and "helped us gather the votes on the Democratic side to pass this legislation," said Rep. Rahm Emanuel, D-Ill., chairman of his party's House caucus.

Rep. John Yarmuth of Kentucky, another Democrat who switched after talking with Obama, said the presidential nominee had described the bill as "just patching up a hole in the boat to get it to port."

Reps. Elijah Cummings and Donna Edwards, both Maryland Democrats, were among several members of the Congressional Black Caucus who decided to back the bill after talking with Obama.

Cummings said Obama told him that, if elected president, he would direct a Treasury Department official to work with homeowners in foreclosure to restructure their loans. Obama also said he would seek changes in bankruptcy laws allowing judges to reduce the amount that borrowers owe on their home loans, Cummings said.

"It's not too often you get the future president telling you that his priority matches your priority," he said.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gMTux__tYFdM9y-JnbKpzQbc_OtQD93J9AQ00

 

[Doris]

Re: Barack 2008!

Barack Obama said he doesn't lose sleep over losing the presidential election:

"What keeps me up at night is winning the election."

The next president will face daunting problems: two wars, the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, terrorist threats, a militarily resurgent Russia and pressing needs for education and health care.

He also left open the possibility that he would name his treasury secretary before the election."This is going to have to be someone who knows their stuff and part of a larger economic team that can help drive an agenda I put forth."

Obama said he would probably appoint Republicans to his cabinet. He also hinted that he'd consider Gov. Jennifer Granholm for a federal appointment, praising her work as governor and adding, "I'm somebody who appreciates talent. I'll leave it at that."

Obama said he would end the practice of using signing statements that give the president power to enforce laws -- or not -- despite Congress' wishes, a practice that the Bush administration has used 150 times.

He said he chose Biden to help him navigate the nation's many issues, not because of what he brought to the ticket in vote-getting power.

Asked if he had considered a female running mate, he said Clinton was "on my short list," as was Sebelius.

"The question is who has the judgment to surround themselves with good managers, to identify the core issues facing country, to project a vision of where we need to go, to be able to delegate power to move the country in that direction."

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081003/NEWS15/810030387/1008/news06

 

[Doris]

Re: Barack 2008!

McCain Loses More Ground on Electoral Map as he Waves White Flag in Michigan

This brilliant clip today shows Obama: 229, McCain: 174 electoral votes atm based on polls.

Watch the journo use the interactive whiteboard to show likely trends to 264 for Obama. 270 needed.

The six embattled states are either tied or leaning to Obama -
Obama must win Ohio, Florida now McCain has conceded Michigan.

 

[ZzzzDad]

Re: Barack 2008!

Have to agree.
Amaturish but nevertheless wrong. Young children shouldn't be used like this.

This was in a Hollywood executives house in Venice California.

From the original poster of this video

Kids sing for Obama: 'Change it and rearrange it' The paragraph and lyrics below are from Obama's official campaign website. The video was produced by NBC Universal CEO Jeff Zucker, Holly Schiffer, Peter Rosenfeld, Darin Moran, Jean Martin, Andy Blumenthal, and Nick Phoenix. "Sing for Change chronicles a recent Sunday afternoon in Venice, when 22 children, ages 5-12, gathered to sing original songs in the belief that their singing would lift up our communities for the coming election."

 

[ZzzzDad]

Re: Barack 2008!

This is pretty freaky too:

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/photo//081003/481/b9bd8c072fdd4d8da8a10d013c9fe226/

 

[ZzzzDad]

Re: Barack 2008!

Cummings said Obama told him that, if elected president, he would direct a Treasury Department official to work with homeowners in foreclosure to restructure their loans. Obama also said he would seek changes in bankruptcy laws allowing judges to reduce the amount that borrowers owe on their home loans, Cummings said.

All responsible homeowners should be raging mad at this proposal. All of us that bought houses we could afford should be angry. Why should those irresponsible home buyers get their home loan principal amounts reduced, and those that did not buy more house than they could afford get nothing?

I have a friend that bought a $500,000 dollar house on the same income as me. He is in foreclosure. Why should the government come in and bail him out? That is ludicrous. He should have bought a $250,000 house like I did. If he had, he would not be in foreclosure.

This is crazy, and, if the average American finds out about it, they will be MAD. Can I have my $500,000 house at a discount?

I would think that even the leftists would be against this crazy proposal.