Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Barack Obama!

Jump to new
Re: Barack 2008!

mayk said:
alwaysLearning

You are right in pointing out that attacking another country is a blatant breach of UN chartered law for the respect of other nation's soverignity.

I think they don't understand the situation in FATA afghan/Pakistan border. They will create a disastrous situation soon. Already skirmishes are happening between US and Pakistani forces on the border. When some US troops will die then that will give them reason to launch an attack on Pakistan. Which can be avoided if US can abstain from attacking another sovereign nation especially their "so called" ally on war on terror.

I think preemptive strike is something which is a new paradigm we have to live with. Kill the sucker first and ask questions later. Typical American way to solve delicate matters.

I don't think there is much of a difference between the two candidates and I seriously doubt president can do much in US. It is all a hog wash to keep the sheeple happy and think that their voices matter.

The only candidate who make any sense at all is Ron Paul IMHO.
Click to expand...

I agree with what you say here regarding the situation in Pakistan and is what scares me. I imagine that China would not like this either along with other powers such as India and Russia.
 
Re: Barack 2008!

I was impressed with Obama who stood talk and looked at McCain when addressing him. Julia you are so right. All the little nuances of tone, behavior, body language said just about as much as what both of them had to say verbally.

I am sure this did not go unnoticed by many in America or Globally.

I was impressed as others were to Obama's self control when McCain openly lied about some of Obama's bills, opinions, or "Senator Obama said....."

Sometimes it is just best to be quite and let the other person die their grave.

Example. The Tax issue of Obama raising them (on the rick which McCain keeps bringing up) That as been flogged to death by McCain's camp!

Obama gives credit where it is due no matter friend or foe, McCain is resistant
 
Re: Barack 2008!

Doris said:
The whole world is disturbed - - that is why this election is critical (economically too) to us all.

You are right about bin Laden being a relatively minor player now.
As Obama said... Al Qaeda is in fifty countries...

But you have to agree with Obama's stance on negotiation and not ignoring adversaries, having merit of resolution rather than inflammation.

Maybe having nuclear weapons might be the US's wild card and saviour.
I wondered if terrorists listening to the debate would chuckle as they plan an imminent attack with their suitcases!
Click to expand...

It is a critical point at which the USA is at a cross road. They face an economic depression. You have China and India BOOMING from an economic stand point.

All of this has a motivation from an economic stand point. Bush used the 9/11 attacks as an excuse for getting some oil. It backfired and has cost the US a lot of money and its reputation around the world.

I think that Obama's stance on engagement with some of these 'bad countries' is a good idea but the whole thing is spin anyway. I mean, there is an economic or vested interest in everything that the USA or any other country like Iran do. The 'negotiation' aspect is good and feel good on the surface but I don't know that it would accomplish much.

The US did not negotiate with Iraq before they invaded it. Instead they invaded based on bad intelligence with a cover story of terrorism that they were trying to save themselves and the world from when in reality they just wanted the oil.

So imagine how the US could have negotiated with Iraq. They want the oil and fake the WMD story and take what they want anyway. Am I wrong here? Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they really did think that Iraq had WMDs and felt threatened. I don't know. But something doesn't sit right with me now. maybe it is that I'm getting older and more critical. I always believe that where there is a war then there HAS to be some kind of economic or political incentive for a country to go to war.

Look at the war in geogia vs russia. There is an Oil channel that goes through georgia I think that links up at a station where oil is distributed to the Western countries. There is now conflict between russia and geogia. USA supports georgia.

I'm rambling now :(

To get back to your post, yeah it is important for the new president to fix things and make the USA a good country with a good reputation. My fear is that neither candidate can pull it off because they aren't ultimately in control of their country anyway. These days I just see the president of a country or prime minister as a PR guy for their country.

Damn I have become cynical these days :banghead:
 
Re: Barack 2008!

Julia said:
I watched most of the debate, trying to be quite objective. I thought they both had their moments of strength, but McCain did tend to waffle, particularly when attempting to score a point in referring to his past experience. Given the chaos over which his Party reigns right now, I'm not sure that doing that would have worked for him.

Obama came across to me as measured in his responses and definitely better on economic issues.

One thing I did notice was that when the moderator continually asked the two candidates to address their remarks to each other, Obama did do this, and referred to McCain as 'John', while McCain clearly had difficulty in dropping his more aggressive stance towards Obama, continued to address the moderator and maintained the "Senator Obama". It may be quite unimportant, but it reinforced for me Obama's apparent willingness to engage verbally with an opponent, something which perhaps can be extrapolated to his approach to difficult negotiations with other countries.

I'm very nervous that Mr McCain would regard war as a first option, apparently rejecting any suggestion of discussions with Iran and/or North Korea.
Click to expand...

You are astute Julia! Well said!

McCain hardly even looked at Obama - a total lack of respect and common decency.
... was continually denigrating in debating his calibre and not the issues.

And Obama was the one to offer to shake hands at the end as McCain walked away!

Maybe next time the moderator can get McCain to 'engage' and thus maybe lose his temper? ;)

Had to laugh at Cindy's red, full length, evening gown. :eek: McCain says Obama is elite?
Michelle wore a conservative dress that would have identified with the middle class! :)
 
Re: Barack 2008!

One thing stood out to me was that the USA owes China $500 Billion. Could be more. If this debate was translated into Chinese and the average person just found that out, linked with the calamity of Wall Street, the level of resentment towards the USA is mounting.

War with Russia could be a different story these days. With the oil they have and money from resources they could well have increased the strength of the army and facilities - straight out war could leave the USA on the crushed end of the stick. Never under estimate anything - that is a human flaw.

They need a leader who is calm under the most trying of times and a well spoken, dignified speaker who can negotiate.
 
Re: Barack 2008!

alwaysLearning said:
I think that Obama's stance on engagement with some of these 'bad countries' is a good idea but the whole thing is spin anyway. I mean, there is an economic or vested interest in everything that the USA or any other country like Iran do. The 'negotiation' aspect is good and feel good on the surface but I don't know that it would accomplish much.

Yeah it is important for the new president to fix things and make the USA a good country with a good reputation. My fear is that neither candidate can pull it off because they aren't ultimately in control of their country anyway. These days I just see the president of a country or prime minister as a PR guy for their country.

Damn I have become cynical these days :banghead:
Click to expand...

What you see is what you get with Obama.

He argued logically and inclusively in his speech in Germany.
He was open and honest when he said they needed Europe's help in Afghanistan to save them money they needed for their economy. He provoked and promoted a willingness to 'work together'. The world wants Obama!

The way he has run his campaign screams of the PR he will have as president. From the start he insisted on the integrity of his aides and campaign members and simply stated that this and congenial relations amongst them was the only mode acceptable if they wished to remain involved.

Disagree, but be agreeable. This debate reflects he practices this trait.

Obama will not be a lame duck president. He will be the commander as he is with his campaign.
 
Re: Barack 2008!

Green08 said:
One thing stood out to me was that the USA owes China $500 Billion. Could be more. If this debate was translated into Chinese and the average person just found that out, linked with the calamity of Wall Street, the level of resentment towards the USA is mounting.

War with Russia could be a different story these days. With the oil they have and money from resources they could well have increased the strength of the army and facilities - straight out war could leave the USA on the crushed end of the stick. Never under estimate anything - that is a human flaw.

They need a leader who is calm under the most trying of times and a well spoken, dignified speaker who can negotiate.
Click to expand...

The US is boxed in a corner in many ways now. From an economic standpoint their influence is reducing. China and India are emerging as powerful economic centers. Indeed Asia really is coming along well now and is MUCH less affected by the sub prime loans than the USA or Euro Zone. But that's another issue.

So, anyway, the US is enemies with Iran, North Korea, doesn't like Russia now, happy to cross borders into another country like Pakistan and exert their military force on these 'terror cells'. Afghanistan they are not friends with along with Iraq.

Maybe I'm crazy but that is a lot of enemies for the US. Also, China and India are going to be far larger growth centers from an economic stand point. I think there is going to be a shift of power from the US and Eurozone back into Asia over the next 100 years.

I know I sound really negative towards the US but it's just their foreign policy that irritates me. To look at things from another perspective though...lets me fair. The US is doing whatever it can to maintain it's super power status around the world. But the catch here is that all countries are trying to do the same thing as well. It is a dog eat dog world and if given half a chance I'm sure that other countries would do the same as the US if they were in the same position or be even more extreme than the USA's foreign policy.

So I'm not sure how to look at these situations because human nature is inherrently flawed from the point of view of fear and greed. Not only does fear and green drive economic markets around the world it drives human behaviour in general and is reflected at a micro and macro level in our world today.
 
Re: Barack 2008!

Doris said:
What you see is what you get with Obama.

He argued logically and inclusively in his speech in Germany.
He was open and honest when he said they needed Europe's help in Afghanistan to save them money they needed for their economy. He provoked and promoted a willingness to 'work together'. The world wants Obama!

The way he has run his campaign screams of the PR he will have as president. From the start he insisted on the integrity of his aides and campaign members and simply stated that this and congenial relations amongst them was the only mode acceptable if they wished to remain involved.

Disagree, but be agreeable. This debate reflects he practices this trait.

Obama will not be a lame duck president. He will be the commander as he is with his campaign.
Click to expand...

I hope that you're right if he does become president. I think that Obama is a great communicator. But the thing is that no president or prime minister or leader is ever really in control of anything. Things need to be passed in congress etc. There are many competing vested interests with a lot of people.

I hope that if he is elected that he can make a positive difference to the world though. Maybe I'm over reacting. I've had a tough week personally and it could be leaking into my posting today.
 
Re: Barack 2008!

alwaysLearning said:
That's a very disturbing video :(
Click to expand...
AlwaysL,
here's McCain's response... "fooling around with vets" :eek:

I personally wouldn't trust the man with negotiating anything trickier than an under 8 footy match :2twocents

McCain Responds to "Bomb, Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran" Video

PS as for your nicname, - gotta be a great motto in life lol - thanks.
 
Re: Barack 2008!

2020hindsight said:
2 more days down the road :-
Now
Obama on ..... 1/2 ($1.50).. in from ($1.62)... steady from ($1.62).... in from ($1.67) ... in from ($1.70)
McCain now 39/20 ($2.95).. out from ($2.75) ... out from ($2.50) ... out from 7/5 ($2.40) ... out from ($2.25)
Click to expand...
If anyone is interested, those odds have BOTH tightened
Obama now 4/9 = $1.44
McCain now 7/4 = $2.75

(PS it's possible for that to happen, - i.e. both to tighten - since we are talking about the best adds available ... and there is still only 5.6% bookies margin in those odds)

http://www.easyodds.com/compareodds/specials/Politics/m/147587-234-5.html

Guess, based on that, you'd call the debate a draw ... EXCEPT that foreign policy was supposed to be McCain's big strength - and he was supposed to win that one 'easily' (the next debate more on the economy) ... :2twocents
 
Re: Barack 2008!

2020hindsight said:
AlwaysL,
here's McCain's response... "fooling around with vets" :eek:

I personally wouldn't trust the man with negotiating anything trickier than an under 8 footy match :2twocents

PS as for your nicname, - gotta be a great motto in life lol - thanks.
Click to expand...

Yeah it's poor form. Having said that I have lost faith on political leaders and politics in general.
 
Re: Barack 2008!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/

Madeleine Albright:
Tonight was a breakthrough for Senator Obama, who showed himself truly ready to be president. He responded knowledgeably, thoughtfully and confidently to the toughest questions on the economy, Iraq, and terror.

Meanwhile, Senator McCain spent so much time attacking his opponent, he neglected to show how a McCain-Palin administration would differ from Bush-Cheney. As a result, Obama answered the threshold question about his candidacy; McCain did not.
Click to expand...

A blogger:
Those predisposed to voting for either candidate would do so regardless of how well they did. I personally am voting for Obama because I feel he has the best temperament for leadership.

Obama exhibits the personality traits I acquit with great leaders: the profound ability to *listen* to the point of view of everyone--even one's opponent; an innate dignity which isn't self-serving or coming from an assumption of entitlement; a graceful self-confidence; a complete acceptance of responsibility; patience in the face of insult; above all, the inward quiet of a man who, while focused on the goal, has the intellect to consider he might be wrong about a given situation.
Click to expand...

Robert Shrum: CNN
Barack Obama was crisp, reassuring and strong -- in short, presidential, as he has been throughout the financial storm of the past two weeks. McCain was not as bad as he has been recently; but much of this debate was fought on what was supposed to be his high ground. As the encounter ended, Obama not only controlled the commanding heights of the economic issue -- and he not only held his own on national security -- but clearly passed the threshold as a credible commander-in-chief. McCain kept repeating that Obama doesn't "understand." But he clearly did. McCain made up no ground. That's similar to what happened in 1960 when Nixon ran on the slogan "Experience Counts" but found it didn't count that much when voters decided JFK was up to the job after the side by side comparison they saw in the first debate.
Click to expand...
A bogger:
I agree with your article. Obama held own regarding National Security. Especially, when he mentioned the peace keepers in Georgia was Russian and that may be a problem! He was right! McCain did do better than I expected - but my expectations weren't high. Obama came out on top because he showed he is not "ready to lead" but is already a Leader. McCain consistently failed to answer the fundamental question and resorted too often to talking points. Obama had clear, concise answers that proved his ability to both lead and inspire this country back to greatness. My only real disappointment was that when McCain brought up his support of veterans, Obama didn't go after him. McCain has an abysmal record in this area and Obama shouldn't have let him get away with claiming otherwise.
Click to expand...

Arianna Huffington:
It was a good night for Obama because, when 83 percent of the country believe we are on the wrong track, standing toe-to-toe with McCain on foreign policy is all you need to do. And Obama clearly did that -- scoring strong points on the lessons of Iraq, where he pointed out all the ways McCain had been wrong on the war. He even landed a zinger: "John, you like to pretend the war began in 2007."

It was a good night for McCain because, after a week in which he'd been bleeding like a hemophiliac in a barbed wire factory, tonight stanched the bleeding. He was able to keep the debate about the economy focused on taxes and cutting spending, as opposed to the crisis brought on by the free market, deregulation religion of which he is a devout follower. And he was able to interject himself into the major foreign policy decisions of the last 20 years.

But it was a bad night for reality. Did John McCain really try to reclaim the high ground on torture after having caved on the issue earlier in the year? And did he really profess his love for veterans after having fought against the new GI Bill?
Click to expand...

Blogger:
I was so angry at Lehr. Obama was about to nail McCain on using Arizona as a depository for radioactive waste from all the nuclear power plants McCain wants to build and Lehr shut him down.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Barack 2008!

Garpal Gumnut said:
I missed the debate, it was a draw, was it?
Click to expand...
Lol, not from where I was sitting ...

McCain never looked at Obama once. Nor the camera.
delivered all his comments to "the chair" like a robot.

If he is trying to paint himself as "the President" ....... whose main role in life is to convince the American people of his point of view through future (unknown) crises with his persuasive powers.... then I personally think he failed bigtime.

Meanwhile Obama looked straight at the camera several times on important points - and many times he spoke to McCain directly -

and Obama took every chance to correct the spins that McCain (and his recent ads) have been saying - I think he made a few good points there as well. Obama far more at ease - or perhaps that should read "less spivvy".

Neither made any gaffs - But as I say, I think McCain was very "liberal with the truth" - and shown to be so (imo) - but others might disagree. :2twocents

PS And just reading something IFocus said on the McCain thread, ... I kept thinking , as McCain was talking ... heck this man is 72 years old... In 4 years he's gonna be right gargar... And the difficult points being discussed (by both him and Obama) about Russia, Iran etc - hell, as if you'd let Sarah Palin anywhere near those issues :silly:
IFocus said:
Afghanistan is not the issue Russia's rise is a much bigger deal a vote for McCain is a vote for president Palin who is not an experienced steady hand
Click to expand...
 
Re: Barack 2008!

Doris said:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/

Madeleine Albright:


A blogger:


Robert Shrum: CNN

A bogger:


Arianna Huffington:


Blogger:
Click to expand...

Wow Doris - you picked some very unbiased sources there - LOL

You should check more sources than the leftist blogs and talking heads.

Our side is totally unanimous that McCain won the debate. Not even close.

McCain is going to win because in the end, he is the safe choice. Obama is too unknown and risky to Americans.

Just a warning to you, don't get too invested in our election. You are going to be disappointed in the end. America generally goes for the safe choice in times of war or crisis. McCain is moderate enough, and experienced enough to fit the bill.
 
Re: Barack 2008!

ZzzzDad said:
Wow Doris - you picked some very unbiased sources there - LOL

Our side is totally unanimous that McCain won the debate. Not even close.

McCain is going to win because in the end, he is the safe choice. Obama is too unknown and risky to Americans.

Just a warning to you, don't get too invested in our election. You are going to be disappointed in the end. America generally goes for the safe choice in times of war or crisis. McCain is moderate enough, and experienced enough to fit the bill.
Click to expand...

One area that Americans seem to completely miss the point is not just who you think can run your country and is a "safe choice".

The rest of the world is watching and you should be considering who will be the most appropriate person to deal with other world leaders. Your safe choice is not the safe choice for most leaders globally.

The world is over hearing "the greatest country". There are many rising powers and not everyone wants to fight and drop bombs.

There are many who would welcome open discussion and negotiation with a person they could respect, who would honor agreements and show strength which may not be always favored for his country but the world. Obama is well respected with a strong support base in Australia. I grew up in the USA and Australia and have friends in both countries who welcome Obama.

There are many global issues and articulate leaders with intelligence and tolerance are needed.

McCain has a history of fighting; tonight’s behavior reinforced his arrogance and inability to even look at his opponent despite their differences. You are going to need more in your future other than "experience" if American is to be respected globally.
 
Re: Barack 2008!

I feel saddened by a lot of journalistic comments that Obama was too easy on McCain, especially in agreeing with him so often. But these points were applicable and IMHO demonstrated his innate ability to be bipartisan... to listen and give credit where credit was due. He walked the talk. I'm thinking his well-mannered style is what prompted McCain to feel he had the upper hand, hence his denigrating him. Storming out your view is not defeating the topic. The Australian commercial media homed in on these making Obama look foolish.

Obama cannot be seen as 'an angry black man'... not that he would rant and swear as McCain is famous for. He has been widely respected for his demeanor during the debate. But I really think he needs to up the ante next time and pre-caution the moderator to do his job. It is not up to Obama to stop McCain when he interjects. Jim Lehrer could have done a better job. Obama showed strength not weakness in allowing McCain to be a buffoon in a debate but with a rogue nation leader - he needs to show more authority. No doubt he does this with his staff. Respect, but stand up more forcefully.

Polls on the debate from http://mediacurves.com

Obama won overall 164 to 135. Tight - but a clear winner!
 

Attachments

  • image1.gif
    image1.gif
    6.4 KB · Views: 62
  • image2.gif
    image2.gif
    6.1 KB · Views: 65
  • image9.gif
    image9.gif
    6.3 KB · Views: 65
Re: Barack 2008!

Doris, I feel you are emotionally involved in US politics, especially with Barak Obama. I don't think he will win the race, because of his race. It is sad but true and will be proved in November.

McCain for all his fault is a guy most Americans perceive as a safe bet as pointed out. You can judge that republicans only supported the safest candidate. People don't care about Palin and every thing associated with it. He is like a hedge against unknown. Just as investors run to safer bets in case of market turmoil, they will vote in favour of McCain.

I am not a supporter of McCain or Obama. I admire the view of Ron Paul, but not being a US citizen my 3 cents do not count...
 
Re: Barack 2008!

Having listened carefully to the debate, as a neutral, it became obvious that both sides were treading carefully with the decisions in Washington upper most in their minds.

It was expected that Barack Obama would have a resounding victory but he seemed unable to slam home his points. Or putting it another way, the goal was wide open but he couldn't score.

I got the idea that Obama supporters were a little disappointed with the final result and McCain supporters very relieved indeed, in the end.

McCain should be able to claw back more supporters in the coming polls.
 

Similar threads

basilio
Descent to madness
2
Replies
21
Views
1K
farmerge
farmerge
basilio
Ozempic: Magic Pill or Devils Bargain?
Replies
10
Views
1K
sptrawler
sptrawler
basilio
How valuable are two parent families?
2
Replies
28
Views
3K
Value Collector
Value Collector
over9k
Basic chart analysis/chart reading 101 for beginners
Replies
10
Views
4K
Gunnerguy
G
bigdog
Dump Trump
9 10 11
Replies
214
Views
19K
wayneL
wayneL
Top