Australia's high personal debt

[sptrawler]

Much of this stems from people seemingly being incapable of critical thought. This then leaves them vulnerable to believing all sorts of nonsense designed to separate them from their money.

I went to a retirement seminar a few years ago, It went for two days, at the end of the second day I thought well that was a waste of two days in my life.
I couldn't believe it when 90% of the people were blown away with it, they thought it was earth shattering knowledge, I thought jeez it just shows how little people give a $hit, about their retirement and preparing for it.
It was common knowledge and or common sense IMO.
But then again, how many people really do spend time, setting short term and long term goals. My guess is not many.

 

[Smurf1976]

I couldn't believe it when 90% of the people were blown away with it, they thought it was earth shattering knowledge

In a similar way I’ve had people thinking I’m some sort of genius simply on account of applying high school level maths and physics to practical real world situations.

Amazing given that everyone was taught this stuff.

 

[Value Collector]

I hate that refrigerator ...

View attachment 88149

If it means Getting out of debt, I think its worth families doing the hard yards for a few months.

 

[Value Collector]

What about the recommended 3 pieces of fruit per day per person ?

There is 4KG of Veg in the dinner section, $15.00 allowance for fruit and salad in the lunch section, and if you want to add more you can use the $15.10 left over.

 

[Value Collector]

If you ever wonder why your wife sometime frowned and mutter to herself at breakfast, lunch and dinner... it's highly probable it all have to do with your choice of food.

Mrs VC: He's buying himself a freakin Tesla yet here I am, eating Weatbix, toast with peanut butter; more toast and lettuce for lunch. Potatoes boiled or mashed. Day in, day out. I knew I should have married Bruce. The douche spent like a sailor but at least we won't be eating like it's the Famine

Me and Mrs VC did the hard yards in our 20's, We lived like no one else and now we get to live like no one else, Trust me Mrs VC retired at 30, she loves our trips to Disneyland, Cruises and I am sure she will love the Tesla.

But now of that would be possible if we didn't live frugally for our early years,

 

[Value Collector]

Yes, but then you are making the kids become something you believe in.
.

When you raise them to eat meat you are doing the exact same thing, you teach them to like the idea of chicken flesh, while being disgusted at the idea of horse or dog flesh, meanwhile some other family teaches their kids to like horse but be disgusted by pig.

Carnists (meat eaters), Bring just as many "beliefs" to the dinner table as vegans, However the there are far more "myths" involved in carnist culture.

I'm one of those people who just lets the kids chose their way.

Give a child an informed choice, show them some videos about slaughter house horrors and you will find they might not like the idea of eating animals.


Kids get it, when its explained to them, children love animals.

Adults love animals too, but the chains of habit and myth lead a lot of them to not align their actions with their beliefs.

 

[SirRumpole]

There is 4KG of Veg in the dinner section, $15.00 allowance for fruit and salad in the lunch section, and if you want to add more you can use the $15.10 left over.

Do you actually live on that diet yourself ?

 

[Value Collector]

Being Frugal is a Double Barrelled shot gun, It has two massive impacts.

1, It allows you to direct a larger portion of your wages into savings and investments than you could if you weren't frugal.

2, Because you can live on a smaller weekly income, you can retire on a smaller capital base.

So not only are you building that capital base faster by being frugal, but the size of the capital base you need to retire is much smaller.

 

[Value Collector]

Do you actually live on that diet yourself ?

Not any more, but I did live on something like that in the early years, and was able to set my partner and I up for life.

But, I still don't spend much more than that.

But I am only feeding 2, not 4. but we aren't restricting ourselves.

 

[sptrawler]

Me and Mrs VC did the hard yards in our 20's, We lived like no one else and now we get to live like no one else, Trust me Mrs VC retired at 30, she loves our trips to Disneyland, Cruises and I am sure she will love the Tesla.

But now of that would be possible if we didn't live frugally for our early years,

Agree completely, I remember in the early years a crying Mrs Trawler saying, why do we have to live like this, why can't we have and do what our friends John and Jan are doing.
I said we can do it tough now, while the kids are young and have a great life later, or we can spend everything now and have FA later.
Like you I retired at 56, Mrs Trawler only worked part time occasionally and stopped completely at 40.
John and Jan, are in their 60's still working and still renting, we go over East and see them every couple of years.
Lovely people, but they are where they are through life choices, not through misfortune. He is a very good industrial senior supervisor and she a University lecturer.
It isn't for everyone, but if you have the ambition, drive and vision it can be done.
But you can't have it both ways, you can't use dollars to indulge and invest, blue collar don't earn enough.

 

[luutzu]

Agree completely, I remember in the early years a crying Mrs Trawler saying, why do we have to live like this, why can't we have and do what our friends John and Jan are doing.
I said we can do it tough now, while the kids are young and have a great life later, or we can spend everything now and have FA later.
Like you I retired at 56, Mrs Trawler only worked part time occasionally and stopped completely at 40.
John and Jan, are in their 60's still working and still renting, we go over East and see them every couple of years.
Lovely people, but they are where they are through life choices, not through misfortune. He is a very good industrial senior supervisor and she a University lecturer.
It isn't for everyone, but if you have the ambition, drive and vision it can be done.
But you can't have it both ways, you can't use dollars to indulge and invest, blue collar don't earn enough.

How did you get Mrs T to stop crying? With hard evidence was it?

I told mine the same thing and she just smile it off (on a good day). On a moody day... stop buying cheap apples! They're on sale for a reason!

 

[SirRumpole]

Not any more, but I did live on something like that in the early years, and was able to set my partner and I up for life.

I bet they fed you better than that in the SAS.

 

[sptrawler]

How did you get Mrs T to stop crying? With hard evidence was it?

I told mine the same thing and she just smile it off (on a good day). On a moody day... stop buying cheap apples! They're on sale for a reason!

She really didn't have much choice, three kids under three, 23 years old.
I just said 'trust' me, jeez I hoped and prayed I was right, but it turned out fine.
Now it is beer and skittles, but it is a long hard road, never indulging until you get to the end.
Non of my mates begrudge the position I'm in, because they've seen the sacrifice it took to get here, and we are all still great mates and get together for happy hour on Fridays.
We just have different retirements, I still don't have a McMansion, still live in a small house and drive a normal car.
The only difference is MrsT and I are always away on holidays.

 

[Value Collector]

I bet they fed you better than that in the SAS.

I was in the SOER, not the SASR (we work closely with each other though)

That is a good thing about the Army, Mess meals used to be $3 so while I was on base Breakfast and lunches were $3 all you can eat, and while you are away doing a course or on a training exercise all meals are provided, we also had subsidised housing etc, So that all contributed to me being able to set myself up.

But, as I said above, the Double barrelled affect of being frugal was still the key, Plenty of guys Frittered away all the benefits and pay, and lived in debt.

I probably also lucked out finding the right Mrs VC, she was always more happy at the sports club having a 2 for 1 meal and a lemonade, than being at a fancy restaurant with champagne, we had a champagne budget, but we lived a Beer and peanuts lifestyle.

 

[SirRumpole]

I was in the SOER, not the SASR (we work closely with each other though)

That is a good thing about the Army, Mess meals used to be $3 so while I was on base Breakfast and lunches were $3 all you can eat, and while you are away doing a course or on a training exercise all meals are provided, we also had subsidised housing etc, So that all contributed to me being able to set myself up.

But, as I said above, the Double barrelled affect of being frugal was still the key, Plenty of guys Frittered away all the benefits and pay, and lived in debt.

I probably also lucked out finding the right Mrs VC, she was always more happy at the sports club having a 2 for 1 meal and a lemonade, than being at a fancy restaurant with champagne, we had a champagne budget, but we lived a Beer and peanuts lifestyle.

Well anyway I wish more young people could read your example. I'm sure it would do them a lot of good, but sadly they are probably too busy whinging and maxing out their credit cards on cosmetics or fancy cars.

 

[gaius]

So if Australians have the highest personal debt in the world on mortgages and credit cards, how are they going to spend the money to allow business to grow. The only people making any money in Australia it seems are the banks, Woollies and Coles, the real estate agents, big car dealers and the petrol companies and the government. The mass population is paying top dollar for everything and their houses are sky high expensive. What is going to cause these people to have all of a sudden extra wealth that will then be invested? So how exactly is this going to turnaround and become a prosperous lucky country again? Just asking.

Simple, borrow to invest. It's pretty safe since there is a limit how far the market could fall. Government is there to protect the rich so nothing bad could happen to the market.

 

[sptrawler]

Simple, borrow to invest. It's pretty safe since there is a limit how far the market could fall. Government is there to protect the rich so nothing bad could happen to the market.

If it was that simple, no one would be poor.

 

[Value Collector]

I'm one of those people who just lets the kids chose their way.

Anyone who doubts children can understand or get excited about being Vegan need to listen to this kid.

As I said, children get it, they love animals, and if they are taught the truth behind chicken nuggets etc before the chains of habit are to heavy, they can easily choose to be vegan on ethical grounds.

 

[Value Collector]

Simple, borrow to invest. It's pretty safe since there is a limit how far the market could fall. Government is there to protect the rich so nothing bad could happen to the market.

While I do agree that debt can be used to make sound investments, I do find your attitude to it far to flippant, in my opinion, you have to be a skilled investor before you should consider using any debt, Debt not only removes a safety net, its puts spikes there, so it would be silly to recommend it to a novice.

 

[sptrawler]

VC, I have been having a think about what is fundamentally different between the people I know, which are quite a lot of people. I am thinking along the lines of character trait differences, between those who have become financially secure and those that haven't.
The one glaring difference is the ability to say no, I guess it is self discipline, those who have made it seem to have more.
Like you say 'live frugally', but really it is the ability to say no, be it to smoking, changing your car, buying the latest phone, going out for food, buying yuppy beer, getting the latest gadget.
It boils down to the persons ability to say no, to him/herself.
Just my ponderings