Australia’s $911,000,000,000 Debt

[farmerge]

Add own experience,
The customer does not pay, or not pay in time...
Yet you pay your employee..double whammy.it is one thing not being paid, but worth not being paid and paying for it

Had that one a few times.
Just wrote out the last cheuqe in the book, she's just gone off with the cheque book or the best hand a cheque over folded and either not dated or signe, or completely ignore the bill and pay in their good time.
Had one some time ago for a very large builder here. I was employing 3 blokes at that time.
Just wouldn't pay so under the cover o darkness went in and pulled down 50 meters each way of a T-piece of fencing.
Amazing how that brought the payment forward.
The repair to the fence also cost the prick dearly.

 

[tech/a]

As well as the ones that others have mentioned there were the in-house non-productive overhead costs. I had a business which was similar in part with that of @tech/a.

At the time I averaged 40 to 60 employees in the field earning the money but also a comparatively large design and admin overhead cost administering the workforce which had to be recovered in the charge-out rates. Then there was the issue of being in Nth Q’ld with the periods of the field staff downtime because of heat or wet weather.

The interesting thing is that when I sold and started another business with 1 shared paid staff member and very little overheads – office, car and telephone, I made a much higher profit than the previous business with its huge turnover, and all that staff.

How true that is.

The issues when you have peak demand as we have had for about 5 years is.
(1) You want to grab as much as you can so that Competitors dont take a larger share of the pie V what they have.
(2) You want to keep your existing clients on board as they expand.

Now as things drop into a cavern you need to be agile in shrinking.
Easier to drop back and the Profit remains smaller than the peak.
All good if you can do it without a major shift in Company structure either way---Increasing or Decreasing size.

Fascinating topic but boring to most.

 

[divs4ever]

Well Wayne, after all of that, is there anything left to pay yourself.

after tax , and other stuff like medicare levies , sometimes an appallingly small amount compared to the effort input , which is why Government enterprise normally is pathetic ( all the honchos are guaranteed to be paid by the taxpayer)

 

[aus_trader]

Hope the govt wakes up to all the red tape they have created ! Or a new entrepreneurial guy/girl comes into power and remove all the BS to make this country great again... ?

In the mean-time I am also sorry ? , I am unable to provide job opportunities to my fellow Aussies as I cannot afford to pay for creating a Payroll dept, HR dept and probably a lawyer as well when the govt mobsters and ato comes after me for making a mistake with the billion and one entitlements I need to keep money aside for hiring employees. Next thing I will be in the news for some under-paying staff thing like chef Calombaris, no thanks

Just like many of my friends and colleagues who I network with in the building and construction industry, I operate as a sole trader on my own. If there was a fairer system, would have been more than happy to expand into a small team by hiring employees.

OK, since I don't do it anymore, I can disclose I have hired a few buggers and even international students in the pre-pandemic days and paid them cash in hand to avoid the govt persecution. It's more difficult and riskier now with the push towards a cashless society and the younger generation opting for earning money with the tap of the fingers with work-from-home jobs than being on the tools, so nowadays I work all by myself thanks to the dictating govt. If the society wants jobs, the govt can create them and have hundreds of departments to deal with all their BS !

 

[Smurf1976]

Government enterprise normally is pathetic

Having seen both sides of the fence, my observation is government depends far more on the people involved than does private.

Private enterprise, if the people are no good, they're quickly removed and replaced. End result is reasonable consistency.

Government it's far more down to the individuals involved and their world view. Because it's rather hard to force duds out but at the same time it's also rather hard to limit anyone who wants to excel.

If you can get the right people together then the Public Service is capable of far more efficiency than most would give it credit for. It actually can deliver and can do it well. But get the wrong people and there's nothing to stop the wheels falling off and staying off. It really does depend on the individuals.

Noting a point of distinction that the PS is one thing, private enterprise is another thing, and state-owned corporations are another beast entirely. In practice they're a lot closer to private enterprise in how they work - staff are not Public Servants, no PS Awards or conditions apply, and so on. They're far closer to private enterprise with how they operate and they're reasonably efficient in practice. That at least one of them actually does contract work for the private sector proves that they're not too bad there.

Business can be it's own worst enemy at times though. I recall one business owner and manager who conducted business in a truly memorable fashion. This was in the customers' office not his to be clear and we're talking a $ millions contract not something trivial. Imagine yourself in a windowless room roughly 6 x 4m with a large table in the middle. On the customers' side we had an assortment of people - management, technical, operational, financial, legal. I was in this meeting personally as an employee of the customer, a government-owned organisation, so my account is from first hand experience.

From the other party we have their Managing Director standing up, leaning across pointing fingers straight in peoples faces with his left hand whilst pounding the table with his right hand and yelling at the top of his voice.

I don't think it's the government's fault his business lost that contract.

A Google search finds mixed reviews for that business today, most notably from a contractor which claims to have not been paid for their substantial $ value of work and which names the same individual in their comment. Hmm....

 

[farmerge]

Similarly, body destroying intense manual work, or even top notch IT guru with need to fully update at crazy high rate...
You can not remain at the top year after year as you age.
By 40 or 50, you are on the down path and need to either retire or change role job

Hmm Mr Frog not so sure about age being a deterant.
I am in my 70's and like to think I am as good now as i was 20 odd years ago.
Though these days all the tools and gadgets do make the work a lot less stressful, especially the hydraulic post driver on the tractor and the air or petrol star picket driver

 

[farmerge]

As well as the ones that others have mentioned there were the in-house non-productive overhead costs. I had a business which was similar in part with that of @tech/a.

At the time I averaged 40 to 60 employees in the field earning the money but also a comparatively large design and admin overhead cost administering the workforce which had to be recovered in the charge-out rates. Then there was the issue of being in Nth Q’ld with the periods of the field staff downtime because of heat or wet weather.

The interesting thing is that when I sold and started another business with 1 shared paid staff member and very little overheads – office, car and telephone, I made a much higher profit than the previous business with its huge turnover, and all that staff.

Exactly my point in a previous post. What you generally make is yours and no one elses, well almost.

 

[farmerge]

Having seen both sides of the fence, my observation is government depends far more on the people involved than does private.

Private enterprise, if the people are no good, they're quickly removed and replaced. End result is reasonable consistency.

Government it's far more down to the individuals involved and their world view. Because it's rather hard to force duds out but at the same time it's also rather hard to limit anyone who wants to excel.

If you can get the right people together then the Public Service is capable of far more efficiency than most would give it credit for. It actually can deliver and can do it well. But get the wrong people and there's nothing to stop the wheels falling off and staying off. It really does depend on the individuals.

Noting a point of distinction that the PS is one thing, private enterprise is another thing, and state-owned corporations are another beast entirely. In practice they're a lot closer to private enterprise in how they work - staff are not Public Servants, no PS Awards or conditions apply, and so on. They're far closer to private enterprise with how they operate and they're reasonably efficient in practice. That at least one of them actually does contract work for the private sector proves that they're not too bad there.

Business can be it's own worst enemy at times though. I recall one business owner and manager who conducted business in a truly memorable fashion. This was in the customers' office not his to be clear and we're talking a $ millions contract not something trivial. Imagine yourself in a windowless room roughly 6 x 4m with a large table in the middle. On the customers' side we had an assortment of people - management, technical, operational, financial, legal. I was in this meeting personally as an employee of the customer, a government-owned organisation, so my account is from first hand experience.

From the other party we have their Managing Director standing up, leaning across pointing fingers straight in peoples faces with his left hand whilst pounding the table with his right hand and yelling at the top of his voice.

I don't think it's the government's fault his business lost that contract.

A Google search finds mixed reviews for that business today, most notably from a contractor which claims to have not been paid for their substantial $ value of work and which names the same individual in their comment. Hmm....

Mr smurf I am surprised that this business is still operating with an individual of this ilk running the show!!!!!

 

[farmerge]

Hope the govt wakes up to all the red tape they have created ! Or a new entrepreneurial guy/girl comes into power and remove all the BS to make this country great again... ?

In the mean-time I am also sorry ? , I am unable to provide job opportunities to my fellow Aussies as I cannot afford to pay for creating a Payroll dept, HR dept and probably a lawyer as well when the govt mobsters and ato comes after me for making a mistake with the billion and one entitlements I need to keep money aside for hiring employees. Next thing I will be in the news for some under-paying staff thing like chef Calombaris, no thanks

Just like many of my friends and colleagues who I network with in the building and construction industry, I operate as a sole trader on my own. If there was a fairer system, would have been more than happy to expand into a small team by hiring employees.

OK, since I don't do it anymore, I can disclose I have hired a few buggers and even international students in the pre-pandemic days and paid them cash in hand to avoid the govt persecution. It's more difficult and riskier now with the push towards a cashless society and the younger generation opting for earning money with the tap of the fingers with work-from-home jobs than being on the tools, so nowadays I work all by myself thanks to the dictating govt. If the society wants jobs, the govt can create them and have hundreds of departments to deal with all their BS !

Ripper brothers together on this subject.

 

[farmerge]

Got tired of carying a coupe of so called workers. One would be looking skywards gawking at the passing aircraft if we were in the flight zones. Another would just lose tools.
So many years ago but then I was paying around $25 an hour but not with as many bits and pieces so averaged out at about $75 an hour.
Came to the conclusion I was better off taking a bit longer to do the work on my own, or if i really got stuck, could call on the chief cook and bottle washer to help move machinery from job to job. As this is still the case today.

Had to move one tractor and combine seeder and ute to and from a job today. The chief cook and bottle washer was the dogs body. And of course she is charged out as an employee so that coin also stays with us.

 

[farmerge]

How true that is.

The issues when you have peak demand as we have had for about 5 years is.
(1) You want to grab as much as you can so that Competitors dont take a larger share of the pie V what they have.
(2) You want to keep your existing clients on board as they expand.

Now as things drop into a cavern you need to be agile in shrinking.
Easier to drop back and the Profit remains smaller than the peak.
All good if you can do it without a major shift in Company structure either way---Increasing or Decreasing size.

Fascinating topic but boring to most.

Extremely fascinating with those sharing their experiences here.
Boring to me, never.

 

[aus_trader]

Extremely fascinating with those sharing their experiences here.
Boring to me, never.

Agree, never boring. These are important subjects and if not addressed, Australia will be stuck in a bureaucratic labyrinth.

Could even evolve into a socialist dictatorship the way they are heading towards controlling people and enforcing employees be spoon-fed, diapers changed, workers compensated, given holiday and sick entitlements that the employer has to calculate and account for. As I said unless the boss had a whole HR and Payroll Department, he'll have time for achieving Fk all in the business, having to baby-sit the employees and dealing with a ton of employee entitlement paperwork.

Just to clarify, I have been on the receiving side of being spoon-fed and my diapers changed when I was an employee years ago, and absolutely hated the system. I knew it wasn't meant to be because I didn't want to be treated like if I was retarded. I knew to work out how much I needed to put aside in my own super, save for a holiday and tell the boss when I needed no-pay leave etc. All I wanted was a good hourly rate for putting in the hard yards and didn't want any other BS entitlements that the govt was intimidating the boss on.

Sorry for all the bit-ching, I am generally a very optimistic person and even through the mess that exists, I see a brighter future after all, in fact the wheels are already in motion in some industries. What I am optimistic about is this: There will be more and more automation, AI, robotics and advancements in technology going forward that businesses will embrace with both hands and there will be less and less need for employees and associated govt BS.

 

[tech/a]

Got tired of carying a coupe of so called workers. One would be looking skywards gawking at the passing aircraft if we were in the flight zones. Another would just lose tools.
So many years ago but then I was paying around $25 an hour but not with as many bits and pieces so averaged out at about $75 an hour.
Came to the conclusion I was better off taking a bit longer to do the work on my own, or if i really got stuck, could call on the chief cook and bottle washer to help move machinery from job to job. As this is still the case today.

You remind me of just about every small business owner including myself.
I very clearly remember 30 yrs ago looking head on at the choice you made.

I said to my Now wife at the time Ïf I cant turn over X with Y profit in this 12 mths
going back to small and sweet happy with less $s and less Headfux.

As it turned out X and Y were hit and I kept persuing the opportunity.
In my case it was and still is worth the Headfux and the journey.
Now principal Capital investor in my own company so at last it looks
after me!

 

[wayneL]

You remind me of just about every small business owner including myself.
I very clearly remember 30 yrs ago looking head on at the choice you made.

I said to my Now wife at the time Ïf I cant turn over X with Y profit in this 12 mths
going back to small and sweet happy with less $s and less Headfux.

As it turned out X and Y were hit and I kept persuing the opportunity.
In my case it was and still is worth the Headfux and the journey.
Now principal Capital investor in my own company so at last it looks
after me!

I think that depends on the person's personality. Let me be the first to admit that I don't do well under such stresses.

My father did, my brother did, but not me. It means I will never be a billionaire, or even a wealth of tens of millions.

It's been a rollercoaster but ultimately I've done ok... And doing medium sized to large business would probably ultimately have had me in a straight jacket.

Hey that's just me and I am glad I have that understanding of myself.... And it is fortunate for society that we have people such as yourself to manage SME to large businesses.

Ultimately we must decide what is important to us personally and how we may navigate the economics of our system

FWIW

 

[Country Lad]

Ultimately we must decide what is important to us personally and how we may navigate the economics of our system

Yes, what is important is some sort of balance between the working life and the real life. In my case, I have never felt stress in the commercial environment. However, even though Country Lass had very senior positions in the building game which did not stress her at all, she was never comfortable with our business and was pleased when we sold it (and was one of many reasons I sold it). When I started the next business in a totally different industry with very little overheads and very high profits there was less stress and greater harmony on the home front.

 

[wayneL]

Yes, what is important is some sort of balance between the working life and the real life. In my case, I have never felt stress in the commercial environment. However, even though Country Lass had very senior positions in the building game which did not stress her at all, she was never comfortable with our business and was pleased when we sold it (and was one of many reasons I sold it). When I started the next business in a totally different industry with very little overheads and very high profits there was less stress and greater harmony on the home front.

In backtesting mechanical systems on amibroker there is an interesting parameter called the ulcer index.

Rarely do we consider of such a thing in ordinary business, but it is probably a pretty important parameter.

 

[farmerge]

Agree, never boring. These are important subjects and if not addressed, Australia will be stuck in a bureaucratic labyrinth.

Could even evolve into a socialist dictatorship the way they are heading towards controlling people and enforcing employees be spoon-fed, diapers changed, workers compensated, given holiday and sick entitlements that the employer has to calculate and account for. As I said unless the boss had a whole HR and Payroll Department, he'll have time for achieving Fk all in the business, having to baby-sit the employees and dealing with a ton of employee entitlement paperwork.

Just to clarify, I have been on the receiving side of being spoon-fed and my diapers changed when I was an employee years ago, and absolutely hated the system. I knew it wasn't meant to be because I didn't want to be treated like if I was retarded. I knew to work out how much I needed to put aside in my own super, save for a holiday and tell the boss when I needed no-pay leave etc. All I wanted was a good hourly rate for putting in the hard yards and didn't want any other BS entitlements that the govt was intimidating the boss on.

Sorry for all the bit-ching, I am generally a very optimistic person and even through the mess that exists, I see a brighter future after all, in fact the wheels are already in motion in some industries. What I am optimistic about is this: There will be more and more automation, AI, robotics and advancements in technology going forward that businesses will embrace with both hands and there will be less and less need for employees and associated govt BS.

A little bit off target but fits in with tyour post.
My son who works in the north west sent me an e-mail today. Absolutelyy unbelieveable.
A department dedicated to this b/s.
Gender percific , name your choice of gender, and it goes on and on.
Thank goodness I am a sole worker, not soul, and don't have to account to anyone whether I am male, female or whatever the 3rd option is.

 

[wayneL]

A little bit off target but fits in with tyour post.
My son who works in the north west sent me an e-mail today. Absolutelyy unbelieveable.
A department dedicated to this b/s.
Gender percific , name your choice of gender, and it goes on and on.
Thank goodness I am a sole worker, not soul, and don't have to account to anyone whether I am male, female or whatever the 3rd option is.

Indeed!

It is also great to be able to pick and choose clients.

 

[Value Collector]

Gender percific , name your choice of gender, and it goes on and on.
Thank goodness I am a sole worker, not soul, and don't have to account to anyone whether I am male, female or whatever the 3rd option is.

It's not that hard to grasp, its just basically referring to your colleagues in a way they want to be referred to. Its not that different from forms that ask your "Name", but also have a section to write your "Preferred name".

I used to work with a guy who's name was Ruban, he hated it, he wanted us to call him Jim, so we called him Jim regardless of what it said on his birth certificate, its not that hard to be Kind.

It's no different with gender, if someone wants you to refer to them as a she or he or they just do it, regardless of what the birth certificate suggests, it's just polite and kind.

 

[tech/a]

More prevalent now.

Back 20 years ago gender delineation was rare.
I remember an Excavator operator --- Kevin--Wanted
to be called Natalie---dressed like Natalie and Looked
like Kevin Tatts and all. Copped a lot but never changed.

I'm surprised at how many guys wear Makeup. Particularly
Mascara!