Australian Politics General...

[PZ99]

If Labor are going to dominate the election I'll vote for someone else. Never been a fan of dictatorship. I'll go with the secular mob: https://www.secular.org.au/

Any far cups by the next govt are therefore not my fault

 

[Smurf1976]

Tasmanian Premier Will Hodgman survived a no confidence motion by one vote.

Media coverage in SA of “Liberals facing country revolt on many fronts”.

Unofficially there seems to be a lot of concern about the outcome of next year’s NSW state election.

It would seem at least plausible that we’re heading to a situation in a few years where Labor holds most or all states as well as federally.

The Liberals only have themselves to blame for the situation.

 

[sptrawler]

Tasmanian Premier Will Hodgman survived a no confidence motion by one vote.

Media coverage in SA of “Liberals facing country revolt on many fronts”.

Unofficially there seems to be a lot of concern about the outcome of next year’s NSW state election.

It would seem at least plausible that we’re heading to a situation in a few years where Labor holds most or all states as well as federally.

The only thing with that, Labor don't take long to blow their feet off either, so it is a bit of roundabout and swings situation.
As usual, the Libs aren't doing anything that Labor didn't do the last time they were in, it isn't anything new. Remember the Rudd, Gillard, Rudd fiasco.

 

[SirRumpole]

The only thing with that, Labor don't take long to blow their feet off either, so it is a bit of roundabout and swings situation.
As usual, the Libs aren't doing anything that Labor didn't do the last time they were in, it isn't anything new. Remember the Rudd, Gillard, Rudd fiasco.

Rudd was a destructive little sod and it was only a matter of time before he got knifed.

Gillard was torched for her carbon tax flip, even though it might have been good policy at the time and given some direction on energy policy.

Shorten seems much more likely to hold the team together and Labor's voting system means he's less likely to be thrown out. The main danger with Labor as it always has been is militant unions and whether the Labor leadership can stand up to them like Hawke and Keating did.

Sally McMannus looks to me like an old school commie unionist spoiling for a fight, and together with the CFMEU could pose problems for Labor if they get above their station.

 

[sptrawler]

Rudd was a destructive little sod and it was only a matter of time before he got knifed.

Gillard was torched for her carbon tax flip, even though it might have been good policy at the time and given some direction on energy policy.

Shorten seems much more likely to hold the team together and Labor's voting system means he's less likely to be thrown out. The main danger with Labor as it always has been is militant unions and whether the Labor leadership can stand up to them like Hawke and Keating did.

Sally McMannus looks to me like an old school commie unionist spoiling for a fight, and together with the CFMEU could pose problems for Labor if they get above their station.

You are spot on Rumpy, it seems to happen to all Governments, I think a lot of the discontent is the media making stories out of nothing.
I suppose with Australia being such a small Country on the World stage and such a small population, the press to some degree has to make their own news.
When labor went down last time, it took a lot of their older talent with it, so Shorten probably has the advantage of a lot of younger players on the team.
Which will probably help him maintain control, he certainly is running a tight submarine at the moment, everything is going under the radar.
I think the unions will give him a lot of trouble, the tax policy will affect the union members, as they fall into that $100k - $150k band.

 

[sptrawler]

IMO one thing that has become blatantly obvious, since Turnbull left, is that he should never have been there in the first place.
It is sad really, when someone thinks they are the team, rather than a player in the team.
The media, shoved him down the Liberal Parties throat, and now the media is upset when they chucked him up.
Just my opinion.

 

[Smurf1976]

IMO one thing that has become blatantly obvious, since Turnbull left, is that he should never have been there in the first place.

Agreed about Turnbull but from comments I've heard from various people the Liberals really do need to convince the masses that they won't stand the likes of Abbott or other conservative "Right" types in the future either.

Remove any hints of religion or "Right" conservatism and start representing the middle class and then they'll gain support. That means ditching much of their current thinking and of course ditching many of their backers as well.

Just my thoughts.

 

[sptrawler]

Agreed about Turnbull but from comments I've heard from various people the Liberals really do need to convince the masses that they won't stand the likes of Abbott or other conservative "Right" types in the future either.

Remove any hints of religion or "Right" conservatism and start representing the middle class and then they'll gain support. That means ditching much of their current thinking and of course ditching many of their backers as well.

Just my thoughts.

I don't often disagree with you smurph, but a lot of the anti Abbott feeling is media generated and IMO baseless.
I have pointed out on numerous occassions where Rumpy has been aligned with Abbott's beliefs, which is hard to believe because you can't get more anti Abbott than Rumpy.

Religion shouldn't play a part in anything, it should be there for those that want it, but it should play no part in politics.
As for the Liberal Party backers, from what I've read the Libs are pretty well broke.
There is this great media backed myth that they are funded for and act on the behalf of big business, but if I heard correctly Turnbull had to throw his own money in, to fund the campaign.
So if there is any big funders behind the scenes, I would guess Labor are getting it.
Just my opinion as usual, but I do try to think beyond the press rhetoric.

 

[Humid]

Here we go again ......media generated
So where do the enlightened like you get your info from that others don’t seem to have access to?

 

[sptrawler]

Here we go again ......media generated
So where do the enlightened like you get your info from that others don’t seem to have access to?

By thinking about the issues, rather than reading by numbers.

 

[Darc Knight]

If Senators were abusing SHY she should've taped them rather than grand standing. And dressing like she was isn't appropriate in the House.

I don't often disagree with you smurph, but a lot of the anti Abbott feeling is media generated and IMO baseless.

Not sure about that Homer. Abbott was a head kicker in the Howard Govt. One of the grubbiest around. Yes he's polished himself now but back then geez.
And right wing media portray him as the second coming of Christ now.

And what are we doing discussing this at 11pm. Hot chocolate and counting sheep time.

 

[sptrawler]

By thinking about the issues, rather than reading by numbers.

I just went to the SMH, to find a current article, to try and explain.

The Headline is : Parties urged not to squander 21 billion dollar windfall.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...ndfall-on-election-spree-20181129-p50j4l.html

From the article:
The assessment by the Parliamentary Budget Office, delivered two days after Prime Minister Scott Morrison announced an April budget ahead of a likely May election, shows Commonwealth spending restraint as well as surging income tax revenue and company profits have put the government on track to net an extra $21.3 billion by 2021.

So in reality it isn't a windfall, it is spending restrain and increased business activity, which the Government should probably take some credit for.
But no it is a windfall pure chance, the Government had a big lotto win.
That is misrepresentation IMO, but hey it is only my opinion.

They could have made the headline:
this will be the first Government surplus since 2008.
Or they could have mentioned from the same article:
median earnings in Australia increased by 5.4 per cent over the year to August 2018, the largest increase since 2005, according to the ABS.

But hey that wouldn't be good, why put positive spin on anything Liberal related, after all it is the SMH.

 

[sptrawler]

And what are we doing discussing this at 11pm. Hot chocolate and counting sheep time.

It's only 9pm here, but I have put the ovaltine on, got to keep Mrs Trawler happy.

 

[Smurf1976]

I don't often disagree with you smurph, but a lot of the anti Abbott feeling is media generated and IMO baseless.

Religion shouldn't play a part in anything, it should be there for those that want it, but it should play no part in politics.

We're going to disagree about something sometime.

My perception of Abbott though, and I'll readily acknowledge it does come via the media since I've only met him once, is of allowing his personal religious beliefs to interfere with politics. That may be wrong but it is certainly my perception.

Australia could be described as a Christian society to a point certainly but it's one where most don't take it particularly seriously. They'll celebrate Christmas and know the Bible exists but that's pretty much it really for most.

There is this great media backed myth that they are funded for and act on the behalf of big business

I think most have an underlying assumption that anyone elected to parliament is going to represent someone.

Labor is associated with the unions to a point still.

National is associated with farmers to some extent yes.

Greens aren't a serious contender for government but they do raise a lot of "Left" issues so at least we sort of know where their thinking is at.

Liberals? Who do they represent? To me that's not at all clear beyond saying it isn't normal employee workers, it isn't the natural environment, it doesn't really seem to be small business beyond a very limited extent and it isn't anything of a scientific or technical nature which itself covers a pretty big slice of the pie these days.

So who do they represent?

I doubt many people could really answer that question at the moment.

None of that is to say Labor will do any better. That's a different question entirely.

 

[Smurf1976]

Hot chocolate and counting sheep time.

The rising price of electricity makes the "hot" bit too expensive these days.

Labor's taxation ideas means people will need to cut spending. There goes the chocolate.

The sheep fell victim to the drought, flood, fires or dust storm depending where you are located.

 

[SirRumpole]

So who do they represent? [the Liberal Party]

Big corporate and individual donors.

 

[SirRumpole]

From the article:
The assessment by the Parliamentary Budget Office, delivered two days after Prime Minister Scott Morrison announced an April budget ahead of a likely May election, shows Commonwealth spending restraint as well as surging income tax revenue and company profits have put the government on track to net an extra $21.3 billion by 2021.

So in reality it isn't a windfall, it is spending restrain and increased business activity, which the Government should probably take some credit for.
But no it is a windfall pure chance, the Government had a big lotto win.
That is misrepresentation IMO, but hey it is only my opinion.

Actually it is a windfall in one sense due to increased commodity prices which the government has little control over.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/com...stralian-budget-optimism-20171217-h061xo.html

 

[SirRumpole]

I have pointed out on numerous occassions where Rumpy has been aligned with Abbott's beliefs, which is hard to believe because you can't get more anti Abbott than Rumpy.

It will be a sad day when we don't agree with someone sometime.

I agree with TA on things like reduction in immigration , law and order (to a point), but otherwise he's just another class warrior whose policies would be disastrous imo.

 

[PZ99]

The surpluses are coming from higher than expected revenues but that doesn't mitigate the fruits of pro growth policies handed down by the Turnbull Govt as opposed to the austere position of the Abbott Liberal Govt in 2014 which was a spectacular failure.

That's why it became the Abbott Labor Govt in 2015 - much of the austerity values were dropped in their 2015 "Labor" budget which was all growth. Of course, Turnbull does "Labor" better than Abbott (and even the ALP themselves) so the handover was inevitable.

In my view, if they'd stayed with Turnbull they would've won the next election and then handed down a few years of surpluses and lowered debt and lowered taxation as well.

That's all gone down the swanny thanks to the destructive right. White collar terrorism at its best.

 

[Humid]

I just went to the SMH, to find a current article, to try and explain.

The Headline is : Parties urged not to squander 21 billion dollar windfall.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...ndfall-on-election-spree-20181129-p50j4l.html

From the article:
The assessment by the Parliamentary Budget Office, delivered two days after Prime Minister Scott Morrison announced an April budget ahead of a likely May election, shows Commonwealth spending restraint as well as surging income tax revenue and company profits have put the government on track to net an extra $21.3 billion by 2021.

So in reality it isn't a windfall, it is spending restrain and increased business activity, which the Government should probably take some credit for.
But no it is a windfall pure chance, the Government had a big lotto win.
That is misrepresentation IMO, but hey it is only my opinion.

They could have made the headline:
this will be the first Government surplus since 2008.
Or they could have mentioned from the same article:
median earnings in Australia increased by 5.4 per cent over the year to August 2018, the largest increase since 2005, according to the ABS.

But hey that wouldn't be good, why put positive spin on anything Liberal related, after all it is the SMH.

as the country heads towards a surplus for the first time since the Global Financial Crisis thanks to a $21 billion windfall.

Geez it’s in the first paragraph
Looking at the numbers perhaps