Australian Politics General...

mullokintyre said:

I am not alone in wanting as little interference from Governments as possible in my life.

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Everyone wants that, untill things start to go sour for them, then they cry out "why doesn't the government do something".

SirRumpole said:

It's also simplistic to blame the Government for everything. Interest rates and the world economy for example.

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SirRumpole said:

Everyone wants that, untill things start to go sour for them, then they cry out "why doesn't the government do something".

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Well the last PM tried saying its not my job and was shot down and then when he was written in to critical portfolios to take responsibility he was shot down.
No wonder the public is confused. Lol

I think that is what is causing the current Govt to be paralysed, making yourself into as little a target as possible, can lead to the perception you are doing nothing.
Which is happening currently.

The NT Labour Party has elected Australia's first Indigenous party Leader.
Selena Uibo will lead a Labour opposition of either 4 or 5 out of the 25 seats as one is still contested.
If the NT labour do not get that fifth seat, it will mean that all four of the opposition members will be Indigenous, obviously a first for OZ.
One might say that at last we have a real indigenous Voice in Parliament, even if it is only in the NT.
Mick

mullokintyre said:

The NT Labour Party has elected Australia's first Indigenous party Leader.
Selena Uibo will lead a Labour opposition of either 4 or 5 out of the 25 seats as one is still contested.
If the NT labour do not get that fifth seat, it will mean that all four of the opposition members will be Indigenous, obviously a first for OZ.
One might say that at last we have a real indigenous Voice in Parliament, even if it is only in the NT.
Mick

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No offence meant, but they didn't have a lot of choice did they?

Labor got smashed because they didn't deal with the crime issue. I wonder how it will go down having a rep of the people who are doing a lot of the damage?

SirRumpole said:

And trivial stuff like minority rights.

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Minority rights per say I'm in favour of. There's no justification for discrimination just because someone has an uncommon trait that isn't causing harm to others.

What's a problem is when a reasonable desire for equality and not being discriminated against on irrelevant measures morphs into a demand for outright favouritism as has now occurred.

That's what's changed, it has gone from a call for equality to demanding favouritism in a short space of time.

Smurf1976 said:

Minority rights per say I'm in favour of. There's no justification for discrimination just because someone has an uncommon trait that isn't causing harm to others.

What's a problem is when a reasonable desire for equality and not being discriminated against on irrelevant measures morphs into a demand for outright favouritism as has now occurred.

That's what's changed, it has gone from a call for equality to demanding favouritism in a short space of time.

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Equal rights basically, whether minority or majority.

Vis a vis, there is no such thing as "minority rights", just "human rights".

wayneL said:

Equal rights basically, whether minority or majority.

Vis a vis, there is no such thing as "minority rights", just "human rights".

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Absolutely, the rights of the individual apply to everyone and should be dominant, 'group' rights infers some type of advantage that other groups don't have.

wayneL said:

Equal rights basically, whether minority or majority.

Vis a vis, there is no such thing as "minority rights", just "human rights".

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Perhaps only someone who knows they have the IQ and vigour to compete on a genuinely level playing field really believes in equal opportunity. Given the heritability of things like IQ / health / height, legitimate equal opportunity would not change much about who sat where. If anything, it would likely make the differences more stark over time.

StockyGuy said:

Perhaps only someone who knows they have the IQ and vigour to compete on a genuinely level playing field really believes in equal opportunity.

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As I see it, there's a distinction between relevant and irrelevant factors.

If we're talking about someone applying for a job for example then for the vast majority of jobs gender, race, sexual preferences, height and so on are completely irrelevant.

Depending on the nature of the job physical fitness, facial hair if unwilling to shave it off, long hair if unwilling to tie it back and rigid adherence to religious practices may be a very good practical reason to refuse employment. Because if the job's of a manual labour nature, requires wearing a respirator and working with power tools and requires working on Sundays well you need to be able to do that, that's what the job involves. It requires someone who's able to do it, will be safe doing it, and who's willing to work at the required times. But those things wouldn't be relevant to a weekday office job for example.

What always should be a determinant however is competency. Because ultimately a good portion of society just isn't cut out for all sorts of things. Anything from an engineer to a musician to a GP to accounting, there's a lot of people who simply don't have an inclination toward it. Even if they manage to obtain relevant qualifications, they're still never going to be much good at it in practice and I dare say most have encountered such people in their working lives at some point. People who are nice enough as people, who have the relevant qualifications, but they're simply no good on the job and never will be.

If we're to succeed overall as a society then the sorts of people we need as engineers are those who could still come up with a basic concept plan even if they didn't have an engineering degree, because it comes naturally to them. Just as the actually good musicians tend to be people who clearly had talent well before they saw the inside of a recording studio, took singing lessons or even formed a band. And so on, repeat that for any trade or profession. The good people tend to be naturally attracted to it, they're not just doing it because they needed a job.

Once we start rejecting genuinely talented people and instead filling positions based on race, gender or heaven forbid sexual preferences then we're really going down a path that won't end well. If they couldn't get the job on merit based on aptitude, academic ability etc then it's folly to be hiring people who aren't well suited into these roles. It's just not going to end well to have workplaces filled with people who just aren't that good at or even interested in the job.

If anyone wants a good illustration of that, just find any band that was clearly "manufactured" based solely on the physical appearance of the members, no musical talent required. No matter what genre it is, it's a given the music will be predictable, mediocre at best and rapidly forgotten. Because if you want some notable, enduring music that stands the test of time then you need some musicians with genuine interest and aptitude to make that happen.

Yes, equal rights in law does NOT mean "equity", that is equality of outcomes. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with unequal outcomes precisely because we are unequal in every way, plus there is the effect of randomness.

A society trying to force equity is doomed to fail and every attempt at has failed.

The Press won't have Bill Shorten to kick around anymore, he's retiring at the next election.

SirRumpole said:

The Press won't have Bill Shorten to kick around anymore, he's retiring at the next election.

Former Labor leader Bill Shorten to retire from politics to take top job at University of Canberra

NDIS Minister Bill Shorten will remain in government until February, when he will take up the position of vice-chancellor of the University of Canberra.

www.abc.net.au

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Raises the question of who is going to shiv Albo in a kidney now.

wayneL said:

Raises the question of who is going to shiv Albo in a kidney now.

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My guess would be Tanya.

SirRumpole said:

The Press won't have Bill Shorten to kick around anymore, he's retiring at the next election.

Former Labor leader Bill Shorten to retire from politics to take top job at University of Canberra

NDIS Minister Bill Shorten will remain in government until February, when he will take up the position of vice-chancellor of the University of Canberra.

www.abc.net.au

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Surely this is not the first of the rats deserting a sinking ship scenarios?
We will now be faced with the unedifying stupidity as the various factions fight over the spoils of safe labour set of Maribyrnong.
One of the names being put forward by the left faction is Jo Briskey, a UWU union executive, who was previously touted as someone to replace Anthony Byrne, but lost to Cassie Fernando in a preselection stitch up.
Ms Briskey is perennial contender, as she also ran (unsuccessfully) for Queensland Federal Seat of Bonner, but has since moved to Melbourne.
The other name that has been put forward , former Union organiser and state secretary of the THC, Natalie Hutchins, is already a minister in the Victorian State Parliament, so if she were to get the nod another by election would be required in Victoria.
The whole political system is such a closed shop, full of the same type of people.
Mick

mullokintyre said:

The whole political system is such a closed shop, full of the same type of people.

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Yes, depressing isn't it?

Where are the scientists, engineers and forward thinkers?

Both parties are stale, stuck in an ideological rut.

Anyone but Kristina Keneally

mullokintyre said:

Surely this is not the first of the rats deserting a sinking ship scenarios?
We will now be faced with the unedifying stupidity as the various factions fight over the spoils of safe labour set of Maribyrnong.
One of the names being put forward by the left faction is Jo Briskey, a UWU union executive, who was previously touted as someone to replace Anthony Byrne, but lost to Cassie Fernando in a preselection stitch up.
Ms Briskey is perennial contender, as she also ran (unsuccessfully) for Queensland Federal Seat of Bonner, but has since moved to Melbourne.
The other name that has been put forward , former Union organiser and state secretary of the THC, Natalie Hutchins, is already a minister in the Victorian State Parliament, so if she were to get the nod another by election would be required in Victoria.
The whole political system is such a closed shop, full of the same type of people.
Mick

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@mullokintyre Well Mick this is one dud that we won't have to see to much more of.
Gone sooner the better.
Still plenty of duds left on both sides of the fence though.
Strange how the backstabbing stops when a retirement is announced and the retiree of course lands an equally well-paid job elsewhere, all the while keeping that excessive pension.

SirRumpole said:

Where are the scientists, engineers and forward thinkers?

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Basic problem is politics is as far removed from science as it gets.

Of all occupations, it's hard to think of one that engages in more denial of factual evidence than politics.

Smurf1976 said:

Basic problem is politics is as far removed from science as it gets.

Of all occupations, it's hard to think of one that engages in more denial of factual evidence than politics.

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The only factual evidence for pollies is the elections every 3 years to stay ensconced in those comfy leather armchairs, that may also back-up as a vehicle for an afternoon nap!!!!!

Smurf1976 said:

Basic problem is politics is as far removed from science as it gets.

Of all occupations, it's hard to think of one that engages in more denial of factual evidence than politics.

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Plus the fact that politics is such a cesspit that very few 'normal' people want to go into it and suffer the trolls on social media and the inevitable character assassination that goes on.

Sometimes I think that the US system has a few things going for it, the President can appoint Cabinet Secretaries that actually know their subject, rather than just political mates. Won't ever happen here though.