Australian Politics General...

[sptrawler]

Can someone get Scomo on the phone, we have several bushfires on the go and a Town apparently had to be evacuated.
Why do we have to manage, send some politicians over for christs sake, this is serious we need Albo on the hose.

People urged to flee to beach as emergency bushfire cuts off coastal town north of Perth

Residents and holiday makers in two small towns in WA's Wheatbelt are warned to act immediately to survive as bushfires threaten Lancelin and parts of West Toodyay.

www.abc.net.au

 

[farmerge]

Can someone get Scomo on the phone, we have several bushfires on the go and a Town apparently had to be evacuated.
Why do we have to manage, send some politicians over for christs sake, this is serious we need Albo on the hose.

People urged to flee to beach as emergency bushfire cuts off coastal town north of Perth

Residents and holiday makers in two small towns in WA's Wheatbelt are warned to act immediately to survive as bushfires threaten Lancelin and parts of West Toodyay.

www.abc.net.au

Fair go Mr sp there is enough gold braid and caps suppossedly knowing what to do without the two d**kheads you have mentioned.
Had several fire units go past this afternoon with all the bells and whistles going on their way to the West Toodyay fire.
Strong winds forecast tonight.
Been pretty windy with some solid gusts, since the sun dropped over the horizon.
Another total fire ban with a vehicle and harvest ban in place also.

 

[sptrawler]

Fair go Mr sp there is enough gold braid and caps suppossedly knowing what to do without the two d**kheads you have mentioned.
Had several fire units go past this afternoon with all the bells and whistles going on their way to the West Toodyay fire.
Strong winds forecast tonight.
Been pretty windy with some solid gusts, since the sun dropped over the horizon.
Another total fire ban with a vehicle and harvest ban in place also.

Yes maybe I should have put it in the political satire thread, but hey live by the sword and all that, the media made a huge deal of the PM being front and centre in bushfires, so be it.
This is my main gripe I don't give a ratz ar$e if the media wants to tear the politicians a new one, but they have to be consistent or they become irrelevant, which is what is happening and the younger generation aren't even tuning into them.
The media is an echo chamber of elites having a huge w@nk tank and the younger generation aren't buying, christ I''m not buying and I'm into my late 60's FFS.

 

[farmerge]

Yes maybe I should have put it in the political satire thread, but hey live by the sword and all that, the media made a huge deal of the PM being front and centre in bushfires, so be it.
This is my main gripe I don't give a ratz ar$e if the media wants to tear the politicians a new one, but they have to be consistent or they become irrelevant, which is what is happening and the younger generation aren't even tuning into them.
The media is an echo chamber of elites having a huge w@nk tank and the younger generation aren't buying, christ I''m not buying and I'm into my late 60's FFS.

For me in mid 70s ScoMo trying to force a handshake was the description of desperation of "look I'm here and helping" pig's a**e. I like the retort from one of the on lookers back then, bugga of and go back to Hawaii, or words than were meant to imply that.

 

[basilio]

I just can't believe this story. The ATO sending out hundreds/thousands of debt letters for old, small totally unclear possible tax debts. Seems like a public relations disaster with SFA financial return for the office.

I'm all for taking a close view at organizations and tax fraud. There must be plenty of low hanging fruit around. But seems just bizarre.

Robotax: retiree pursued by ATO for five-year-old tax on deceased father’s estate​

Letter asking for payment of more than $800 has the hallmarks of tax agency’s recent mass mail-out in pursuit of historical debts

• Follow our Australia news live blog for latest updates
• Get our morning and afternoon news emails, free app or daily news podcast

Jonathan Barrett
@barrett_ink
Thu 21 Dec 2023 01.00 AEDTLast modified on Thu 21 Dec 2023 07.05 AEDT

More than five years after her father died, a Canberra retiree received a notice from the Australian Taxation Office concerning an outstanding debt for the estate.
The deceased estate, which had been finalised years earlier, can “avoid future debt collection action” if it pays the arrears of more than $800, the letter warned.

There was almost no other information in the ATO letter, other than that the debt is related to income tax.
The retiree, who asked for her name not to be published, described the letter’s tone as “passive aggressive”. But it is the long time period between her father’s passing and receiving the debt letter that she found most troubling.

• 
  “My father has been dead for five years so we were understandably shocked and upset,” she said.“They are obviously using these letters as a catch-all to really frighten some people and many people would just go and pay it.

Robotax: why thousands of Australians are receiving tax debt notices dating back up to 15 years
Read more
“But the letter doesn’t even clarify where the debt comes from.”

Over the past several weeks, Guardian Australia has documented numerous cases of people being abruptly advised by the tax office that they have debts that will be extracted from future tax refunds and credits.

The ATO describes the debts as “on-hold” because it does not demand immediate repayment. After the recipient of a letter calls the ATO, they are usually informed the debts are historical.

The surge in recent activity stems from a recent change in ATO policy to pursue thousands of debts that are old, small or previously deemed uneconomical to chase.

While the deceased estate letter is part of a separate debt recovery program to the mass mail-out, it has all the same hallmarks, in that it concerns an old debt that was previously put aside before being recently resurrected.

Robotax: retiree pursued by ATO for five-year-old tax on deceased father’s estate

Letter asking for payment of more than $800 has the hallmarks of tax agency’s recent mass mail-out in pursuit of historical debts

www.theguardian.com

 

[farmerge]

I just can't believe this story. The ATO sending out hundreds/thousands of debt letters for old, small totally unclear possible tax debts. Seems like a public relations disaster with SFA financial return for the office.

I'm all for taking a close view at organizations and tax fraud. There must be plenty of low hanging fruit around. But seems just bizarre.

Robotax: retiree pursued by ATO for five-year-old tax on deceased father’s estate​

Letter asking for payment of more than $800 has the hallmarks of tax agency’s recent mass mail-out in pursuit of historical debts

• Follow our Australia news live blog for latest updates
• Get our morning and afternoon news emails, free app or daily news podcast

Jonathan Barrett
@barrett_ink
Thu 21 Dec 2023 01.00 AEDTLast modified on Thu 21 Dec 2023 07.05 AEDT

More than five years after her father died, a Canberra retiree received a notice from the Australian Taxation Office concerning an outstanding debt for the estate.
The deceased estate, which had been finalised years earlier, can “avoid future debt collection action” if it pays the arrears of more than $800, the letter warned.

There was almost no other information in the ATO letter, other than that the debt is related to income tax.
The retiree, who asked for her name not to be published, described the letter’s tone as “passive aggressive”. But it is the long time period between her father’s passing and receiving the debt letter that she found most troubling.

• 
  “My father has been dead for five years so we were understandably shocked and upset,” she said.“They are obviously using these letters as a catch-all to really frighten some people and many people would just go and pay it.

View attachment 167603
Robotax: why thousands of Australians are receiving tax debt notices dating back up to 15 years
Read more
“But the letter doesn’t even clarify where the debt comes from.”

Over the past several weeks, Guardian Australia has documented numerous cases of people being abruptly advised by the tax office that they have debts that will be extracted from future tax refunds and credits.

The ATO describes the debts as “on-hold” because it does not demand immediate repayment. After the recipient of a letter calls the ATO, they are usually informed the debts are historical.

The surge in recent activity stems from a recent change in ATO policy to pursue thousands of debts that are old, small or previously deemed uneconomical to chase.

While the deceased estate letter is part of a separate debt recovery program to the mass mail-out, it has all the same hallmarks, in that it concerns an old debt that was previously put aside before being recently resurrected.

Robotax: retiree pursued by ATO for five-year-old tax on deceased father’s estate

Letter asking for payment of more than $800 has the hallmarks of tax agency’s recent mass mail-out in pursuit of historical debts

www.theguardian.com

This appears to be the ATO at its very best. Iwould be telling to take a flying leap

 

[basilio]

Pigs in the trough.

Ex-LNP president oversaw transfer of $500,000 in Morrison government grant money to brother’s offset account, court hears​

David Hutchinson misapplied company funds ‘rather audaciously for his own benefit and for the benefit of his relatives’, court finds

• Follow our Australia news live blog for latest updates
• Get our morning and afternoon news emails,free app or daily news podcast

Ben Smee
@BenSmee
Thu 21 Dec 2023 19.24 AEDTLast modified on Thu 21 Dec 2023 19.26 AEDT


Money from a federal government grant – awarded in the dying days of the Morrison government – was transferred into a mortgage offset account controlled by the brother of the former president of the Queensland Liberal National party, a court has heard.
Guardian Australia reported in October that Green Day Energy – a fledgling “green coal” company – had had its bank account frozen and become mired in legal action, 18 months after being awarded a $5.5m commonwealth grant.

In a judgment on Thursday, the federal court judge Roger Derrington found that the former LNP president David Hutchinson had breached his duties as a director of the company, was unfit to remain in financial control and had been “prepared to misapply the company’s funds rather audaciously for his own benefit and for the benefit of his relatives”.

In his judgment, Derrington detailed claims about “suspicious transactions” from the $5.5m grant awarded to Green Day Energy to convert prickly acacia, an invasive outback weed, into woodchip pellets with properties similar to coal.

Those transactions included a $500,000 transfer from the company to the mortgage offset account of Hutchinson’s brother Stephen and to Stephen’s wife.

The transaction was included in an expenditure report, submitted to the federal government, as being paid to an engineering company for “plant and equipment”.

“That description was false,” Derrington said. “Although [David] Hutchinson was responsible for the accounts, he had no explanation as to why the recipient of the funds and the use to which they were being put were misleadingly represented in this way.
“It seems that the effect of the transfer to the offset account was to reduce the amount of interest that Mr Stephen Hutchinson and his wife were required to pay on their loan.
“Despite [David] Hutchinson’s assertions to the contrary, there was no valid reason for Green Day Energy’s funds to have been used in that manner.”

Ex-LNP president oversaw transfer of $500,000 in Morrison government grant money to brother’s offset account, court hears

David Hutchinson misapplied company funds ‘rather audaciously for his own benefit and for the benefit of his relatives’, court finds

www.theguardian.com

 

[farmerge]

Pigs in the trough.

Ex-LNP president oversaw transfer of $500,000 in Morrison government grant money to brother’s offset account, court hears​

David Hutchinson misapplied company funds ‘rather audaciously for his own benefit and for the benefit of his relatives’, court finds

• Follow our Australia news live blog for latest updates
• Get our morning and afternoon news emails,free app or daily news podcast

Ben Smee
@BenSmee
Thu 21 Dec 2023 19.24 AEDTLast modified on Thu 21 Dec 2023 19.26 AEDT


Money from a federal government grant – awarded in the dying days of the Morrison government – was transferred into a mortgage offset account controlled by the brother of the former president of the Queensland Liberal National party, a court has heard.
Guardian Australia reported in October that Green Day Energy – a fledgling “green coal” company – had had its bank account frozen and become mired in legal action, 18 months after being awarded a $5.5m commonwealth grant.

In a judgment on Thursday, the federal court judge Roger Derrington found that the former LNP president David Hutchinson had breached his duties as a director of the company, was unfit to remain in financial control and had been “prepared to misapply the company’s funds rather audaciously for his own benefit and for the benefit of his relatives”.

In his judgment, Derrington detailed claims about “suspicious transactions” from the $5.5m grant awarded to Green Day Energy to convert prickly acacia, an invasive outback weed, into woodchip pellets with properties similar to coal.

Those transactions included a $500,000 transfer from the company to the mortgage offset account of Hutchinson’s brother Stephen and to Stephen’s wife.

The transaction was included in an expenditure report, submitted to the federal government, as being paid to an engineering company for “plant and equipment”.

“That description was false,” Derrington said. “Although [David] Hutchinson was responsible for the accounts, he had no explanation as to why the recipient of the funds and the use to which they were being put were misleadingly represented in this way.
“It seems that the effect of the transfer to the offset account was to reduce the amount of interest that Mr Stephen Hutchinson and his wife were required to pay on their loan.
“Despite [David] Hutchinson’s assertions to the contrary, there was no valid reason for Green Day Energy’s funds to have been used in that manner.”

Ex-LNP president oversaw transfer of $500,000 in Morrison government grant money to brother’s offset account, court hears

David Hutchinson misapplied company funds ‘rather audaciously for his own benefit and for the benefit of his relatives’, court finds

www.theguardian.com

The dodgy brothers

 

[sptrawler]

Yes you expect those who hold, or held a high public office to lead by example @basilio ,it is a shame it isn't always the case.

List of Australian politicians convicted of crimes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Craig Thompson has added to his list, since retiring from office.

Former Labor MP Craig Thomson pleads guilty to COVID-19 grant fraud

Thomson was due to face a hearing on the charges but instead admitted to misusing $25,000 received in business relief payments during the pandemic.

www.smh.com.au

Former federal Labor MP Craig Thomson has admitted to spending tens of thousands of dollars fraudulently claimed in COVID-19 small business grants on personal expenses including a credit card, private school fees, accommodation, a car lease and mortgage repayments.

Thomson was due to face a hearing in Sydney’s Downing Centre Local Court on Tuesday, but the 59-year-old instead pleaded guilty to two counts of dishonestly obtaining financial advantage by deception.

 

[basilio]

Yes you expect those who hold, or held a high public office to lead by example @basilio ,it is a shame it isn't always the case.

List of Australian politicians convicted of crimes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Craig Thompson has added to his list, since retiring from office.

Former Labor MP Craig Thomson pleads guilty to COVID-19 grant fraud

Thomson was due to face a hearing on the charges but instead admitted to misusing $25,000 received in business relief payments during the pandemic.

www.smh.com.au

Former federal Labor MP Craig Thomson has admitted to spending tens of thousands of dollars fraudulently claimed in COVID-19 small business grants on personal expenses including a credit card, private school fees, accommodation, a car lease and mortgage repayments.

Thomson was due to face a hearing in Sydney’s Downing Centre Local Court on Tuesday, but the 59-year-old instead pleaded guilty to two counts of dishonestly obtaining financial advantage by deception.

Well that is sad. Quite wrong and justly served.

I would wonder how many other businesses made a motza from inappropriate use of COVID funds.

 

[farmerge]

Yes you expect those who hold, or held a high public office to lead by example @basilio ,it is a shame it isn't always the case.

List of Australian politicians convicted of crimes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Craig Thompson has added to his list, since retiring from office.

Former Labor MP Craig Thomson pleads guilty to COVID-19 grant fraud

Thomson was due to face a hearing on the charges but instead admitted to misusing $25,000 received in business relief payments during the pandemic.

www.smh.com.au

Former federal Labor MP Craig Thomson has admitted to spending tens of thousands of dollars fraudulently claimed in COVID-19 small business grants on personal expenses including a credit card, private school fees, accommodation, a car lease and mortgage repayments.

Thomson was due to face a hearing in Sydney’s Downing Centre Local Court on Tuesday, but the 59-year-old instead pleaded guilty to two counts of dishonestly obtaining financial advantage by deception.

This former MP should be charged with stealing as a servant, but will probably only get a slap on the wrist, as no doubt he still has a friend or two in high places.

 

[basilio]

I just can't believe this story. The ATO sending out hundreds/thousands of debt letters for old, small totally unclear possible tax debts. Seems like a public relations disaster with SFA financial return for the office.

I'm all for taking a close view at organizations and tax fraud. There must be plenty of low hanging fruit around. But seems just bizarre.

Robotax: retiree pursued by ATO for five-year-old tax on deceased father’s estate​

Letter asking for payment of more than $800 has the hallmarks of tax agency’s recent mass mail-out in pursuit of historical debts

• Follow our Australia news live blog for latest updates
• Get our morning and afternoon news emails, free app or daily news podcast

Jonathan Barrett
@barrett_ink
Thu 21 Dec 2023 01.00 AEDTLast modified on Thu 21 Dec 2023 07.05 AEDT

More than five years after her father died, a Canberra retiree received a notice from the Australian Taxation Office concerning an outstanding debt for the estate.
The deceased estate, which had been finalised years earlier, can “avoid future debt collection action” if it pays the arrears of more than $800, the letter warned.

There was almost no other information in the ATO letter, other than that the debt is related to income tax.
The retiree, who asked for her name not to be published, described the letter’s tone as “passive aggressive”. But it is the long time period between her father’s passing and receiving the debt letter that she found most troubling.

• 
  “My father has been dead for five years so we were understandably shocked and upset,” she said.“They are obviously using these letters as a catch-all to really frighten some people and many people would just go and pay it.

View attachment 167603
Robotax: why thousands of Australians are receiving tax debt notices dating back up to 15 years
Read more
“But the letter doesn’t even clarify where the debt comes from.”

Over the past several weeks, Guardian Australia has documented numerous cases of people being abruptly advised by the tax office that they have debts that will be extracted from future tax refunds and credits.

The ATO describes the debts as “on-hold” because it does not demand immediate repayment. After the recipient of a letter calls the ATO, they are usually informed the debts are historical.

The surge in recent activity stems from a recent change in ATO policy to pursue thousands of debts that are old, small or previously deemed uneconomical to chase.

While the deceased estate letter is part of a separate debt recovery program to the mass mail-out, it has all the same hallmarks, in that it concerns an old debt that was previously put aside before being recently resurrected.

Robotax: retiree pursued by ATO for five-year-old tax on deceased father’s estate

Letter asking for payment of more than $800 has the hallmarks of tax agency’s recent mass mail-out in pursuit of historical debts

www.theguardian.com

It seems Veteran Affairs couldn't believe how badly they stuffed things up as well. They had already decided they wouldn't chase any veteran older than 90 for discrepancies. It clearly was not going to be a good look.
Turns out their computer systems stuffed up and the automated letters were still churned out. Makes one wonder about how effectively these issues are addressed at all ?

Australia’s veterans department ‘apologises for any distress’ in chasing alleged pension overpayments​

Exclusive: The apparent error has been occurring for at least three years and has been blamed on a transition to new computer systems

Australia’s veterans department ‘apologises for any distress’ in chasing alleged pension overpayments

Exclusive: The apparent error has been occurring for at least three years and has been blamed on a transition to new computer systems

www.theguardian.com

 

[farmerge]

It seems Veteran Affairs couldn't believe how badly they stuffed things up as well. They had already decided they wouldn't chase any veteran older than 90 for discrepancies. It clearly was not going to be a good looki.
Turns out their computer systems stuffed up and the automated letters were still churned out.

Australia’s veterans department ‘apologises for any distress’ in chasing alleged pension overpayments​

Exclusive: The apparent error has been occurring for at least three years and has been blamed on a transition to new computer systems

Australia’s veterans department ‘apologises for any distress’ in chasing alleged pension overpayments

Exclusive: The apparent error has been occurring for at least three years and has been blamed on a transition to new computer systems

www.theguardian.com

Bullshyt. Compuers don't make errors or mistakes.
It's the morons who programme them.
Wouldn't it be great if one or many of these bum polishers had the balls to own up and say I/we stuffed it up.

 

[basilio]

Bullshyt. Compuers don't make errors or mistakes.
It's the morons who programme them.
Wouldn't it be great if one or many of these bum polishers had the balls to own up and say I/we stuffed it up.

True. But the fact is that it wasn't Department staff who upgraded/changed computer systems.

The operations would have done by external contractors. The glitches would have been some of the many that public and private businesses discover some time after the process has been completed. Fixing the problem would not be straightforward and in any case the programmers who did it have moved on and would be effectively uncontactable.

One could legitimately argue that this parameter had not been tested when the upgrade went live. In theory (open to correction ) the Department could have made clear what capacities they wanted in the new system and then tested for that outcome. But knowing how frustrating these upgrades are I reckon they just wanted to see the end of the guys and get on with their work.

 

[farmerge]

True. But the fact is that it wasn't Department staff who upgraded/changed computer systems.

The operations would have done by external contractors. The glitches would have been some of the many that public and private businesses discover some time after the process has been completed. Fixing the problem would not be straightforward and in any case the programmers who did it have moved on and would be effectively uncontactable.

One could legitimately argue that this parameter had not been tested when the upgrade went live. In theory (open to correction ) the Department could have made clear what capacities they wanted in the new system and then tested for that outcome. But knowing how frustrating these upgrades are I reckon they just wanted to see the end of the guys and get on with their work.

Still human error and three years unbelievable.

 

[sptrawler]

Still human error and three years unbelievable.

I did say when all the hulla ballou was going on about robodebt, get over it, as AI becomes more advanced so will its deployment.

 

[mullokintyre]

On Tuesday last week, the Prime Minister gave the 2023 Lowry lecture.
For those interested in listening to it, it can be found Here.
In it he praised the big 5 prime Ministers, John Curtin, Gough Whitlam, Bob Hawke, Paul Keating and Kevin Rudd as
“anchoring of Australia’s strategic policy in our region”. As a result, “through the 80s and 90s, a period of profound change around the world, Australia established the enduring geopolitical architecture of the region”.
I guess it is no great surprise that no non labour prime Ministers were mentioned, but I was more than a little surprised that Julia Gillard, the First Female Prime Minister, of any political bent, did not rate a mention.
I'm sure his speech writer meant no ill will towards her, but it would have been noticed within the other gender set.
Mick

 

[farmerge]

On Tuesday last week, the Prime Minister gave the 2023 Lowry lecture.
For those interested in listening to it, it can be found Here.
In it he praised the big 5 prime Ministers, John Curtin, Gough Whitlam, Bob Hawke, Paul Keating and Kevin Rudd as
“anchoring of Australia’s strategic policy in our region”. As a result, “through the 80s and 90s, a period of profound change around the world, Australia established the enduring geopolitical architecture of the region”.
I guess it is no great surprise that no non labour prime Ministers were mentioned, but I was more than a little surprised that Julia Gillard, the First Female Prime Minister, of any political bent, did not rate a mention.
I'm sure his speech writer meant no ill will towards her, but it would have been noticed within the other gender set.
Mick

Had a bit of time for Ms Gillard, even though she was drawn and quartered by her opposition on both sides of the fence.

 

[Country Lad]

True. But the fact is that it wasn't Department staff who upgraded/changed computer systems.

True, but it is the Department staff who test the system after any upgrade to ensure it is functioning as required

 

[basilio]

True, but it is the Department staff who test the system after any upgrade to ensure it is functioning as required

And I did make that point. I have close friends who are commissioned to do these upgrades. From their stories, from my direct and indirect experience and from the duck ups that are reported across all media these "upgrades" end up with many tears before bedtime. Just completing them within a bulls roar of original cost and some reasonable operational effectiveness is regarded as a victory.

I'm certain ASF could supply endless sad tales of such problems.

I think the the really WRONG part about all this is a refusal to recognise there is a computer glitch and moving swiftly as people to remedy the ensuring snafus.