Australian Politics General...

[sptrawler]

Maybe a complete ban on alcohol in the troubled areas would have an effect, but then the grog floggers would object so that rules that out.

Also you would have to scalpers, bringing in grog at a hell of a markup, exploitation where there is cash is rampant.

 

[sptrawler]

Maybe a complete ban on alcohol in the troubled areas would have an effect, but then the grog floggers would object so that rules that out.

I think the grog floggers will be having a beano, now the welfare card has been withdrawn and the problem drinkers have their cash back, I wonder how the wives are going putting food on the table. ? ? ? ?

What a brain fart, hopefully they have a good think about it IMO.

 

[SirRumpole]

I think the grog floggers will be having a beano, now the welfare card has been withdrawn and the problem drinkers have their cash back, I wonder how the wives are going putting food on the table. ? ? ? ?

What a brain fart, hopefully they have a good think about it IMO.

I'm afraid is a case of "woke over wisdom". Some are so concerned about "stigmatising vulnerable people" , a good idea has to be junked.

 

[sptrawler]

I'm afraid is a case of "woke over wisdom". Some are so concerned about "stigmatising vulnerable people" , a good idea has to be junked.

Helping people who can't manage money, by giving them the tools to do so, isn't demeaning them, it is actually helping them.
Forcing them to have to manage their money, their addictions and the family stress issues, without giving them the budgetary tools is terrible IMO, it is setting them up to fail.

 

[SirRumpole]

Helping people who can't manage money, by giving them the tools to do so, isn't demeaning them, it is actually helping them.
Forcing them to have to manage their money, their addictions and the family stress issues, without giving them the budgetary tools is terrible IMO, it is setting them up to fail.

Yes, we know that, but the ultra Left are just concerned with appearances.

 

[Smurf1976]

Maybe the bigger question is, was the welfare card actually doing the right thing?

My view is it was a classic example of something that wasn't a bad idea as a concept but went too far, turning it into one.

Restricting the purchase of alcohol is a good idea yes, no problem there.

Limiting what shops someone can purchase food at, and stopping them buying car parts or a second hand computer, is going way too far. That's ruining their life, it's keeping them on welfare not helping them get back on their feet.

The concept had merit but the implementation was terrible. Even worse when it didn't work and left people unable to pay for food etc as per numerous reports.

 

[SirRumpole]

My view is it was a classic example of something that wasn't a bad idea as a concept but went too far, turning it into one.

Restricting the purchase of alcohol is a good idea yes, no problem there.

Limiting what shops someone can purchase food at, and stopping them buying car parts or a second hand computer, is going way too far. That's ruining their life, it's keeping them on welfare not helping them get back on their feet.

The concept had merit but the implementation was terrible. Even worse when it didn't work and left people unable to pay for food etc as per numerous reports.

I was under the impression that the cashless card was just to limit spending on alcohol and gambling.

Is that not the case ?

 

[sptrawler]

My view is it was a classic example of something that wasn't a bad idea as a concept but went too far, turning it into one.

Restricting the purchase of alcohol is a good idea yes, no problem there.

Limiting what shops someone can purchase food at, and stopping them buying car parts or a second hand computer, is going way too far. That's ruining their life, it's keeping them on welfare not helping them get back on their feet.

The concept had merit but the implementation was terrible. Even worse when it didn't work and left people unable to pay for food etc as per numerous reports.

How many people did you know, on the welfare card?

 

[wayneL]

The concept had merit but the implementation was terrible.

Like everything gummint does.

Its what worries me about them "improving" Medicare.

 

[Smurf1976]

How many people did you know, on the welfare card?

Personally none.

I have however looked into it some time ago when the fuss was made, assuming the government's own information about how it works to be correct and suffice to say that rings alarm bells.

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cdc.indue.com.au

Blocking purchases of alcohol or gambling sure, I'm fine with that.

Saying that someone can't buy anything from Catch, Costco, Dick Smith / Kogan, Ebay, Grays Online, My Deal, anyone requiring Paypal as a method of payment or Sportsco is however going quite a bit further than just stopping them getting drunk or gambling the money away.

None of those are primarily in the business of selling alcohol, tobacco or gambling but all are specifically listed as Blocked Merchants.

The odd one is Australia Post. Payments to other merchants (eg utility bills) made via AP are permitted but Australia Post itself is listed as a Blocked Merchant. Hmm.....

I'm not opposed to the concept of restricting access to alcohol, gambling etc but the detail needs more work in my view. Buying a bulk pack of groceries from Costco and a cheap TV from Kogan ought not be a crime indeed for someone on a low income that's a plausibly sensible choice.

 

[sptrawler]

Personally none.

I have however looked into it some time ago when the fuss was made, assuming the government's own information about how it works to be correct and suffice to say that rings alarm bells.

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cdc.indue.com.au

Blocking purchases of alcohol or gambling sure, I'm fine with that.

Saying that someone can't buy anything from Catch, Costco, Dick Smith / Kogan, Ebay, Grays Online, My Deal, anyone requiring Paypal as a method of payment or Sportsco is however going quite a bit further than just stopping them getting drunk or gambling the money away.

None of those are primarily in the business of selling alcohol, tobacco or gambling but all are specifically listed as Blocked Merchants.

The odd one is Australia Post. Payments to other merchants (eg utility bills) made via AP are permitted but Australia Post itself is listed as a Blocked Merchant. Hmm.....

I'm not opposed to the concept of restricting access to alcohol, gambling etc but the detail needs more work in my view. Buying a bulk pack of groceries from Costco and a cheap TV from Kogan ought not be a crime indeed for someone on a low income that's a plausibly sensible choice.

I know a few who were on it and for most it helped them manage their affairs, some no matter what you do they will find a way to circumvent it,
The card worked in Kununurra, Broome and Perth. I will find out exactly, if it didn't work in Coles.

The other's I can understand, it would be difficult to administer a block on internet purchases due to the purchases could be listed as anything and paypal being an anonymous intermediary the vendor would be unknown.

I can understand lobby groups highlighting obscure examples, to overturn something that may well have helped the individual, but may have hurt the bottom line of booze and drug suppliers.

 

[SirRumpole]

I know a few who were on it and for most it helped them manage their affairs, some no matter what you do they will find a way to circumvent it,
The card worked in Kununurra, Broome and Perth. I will find out exactly, if it didn't work in Coles, the other's I can understand it would be difficult to administer a block on internet purchases.
But my guess would be, the exceptions were highlighted and made out to be the norm, to overturn something that may well have helped the individual, but may have hurt the bottom line of booze and drug suppliers.

If you read the link that Smurf provided, it gives a list of 'blocked merchants'.

One that caught my eye was Betta Electrical. They may sell high end tv's but they also sell things like washing machines and if someone needs a washing machine and has saved up for it, why shouldn't they be allowed to buy one ?

So as Smurf said, in principle it's a good idea, it just needs a bit betta management.

 

[sptrawler]

If you read the link that Smurf provided, it gives a list of 'blocked merchants'.

One that caught my eye was Betta Electrical. They may sell high end tv's but they also sell things like washing machines and if someone needs a washing machine and has saved up for it, why shouldn't they be allowed to buy one ?

So as Smurf said, in principle it's a good idea, it just needs a bit betta management.

Wouldn't the better question be "why was Betta electrical blocked' ?

There are some NDIS support/service providers, who will no doubt be blocked very soon, does that mean people on NDIS wont be able to get support/service?
WHY is the provider blocked, not why is someone not allowed to buy a washing machine, I'm sure they are allowed to buy a washing machine.
That is exactly my point, the way it is presented, is the issue, not the process.
For example, what if it was found a provider was hiking the price of an item/service and giving the difference back as a cash rebate, just something that would be quite easy to do and difficult to identify.
Or even jacking the price, because it is Govt funded and pocketing the extra? e.g "oh you are using a welfare card, there is a surcharge on those".


But that is what happens with most issues these days, work out the outcome you want, then find a way of presenting it to the public to get that outcome.
Getting the media to present it, is the easy bit IMO.
That's why I asked @Smurf1976 if he knew anyone personally, as I do and I'm sure they will fall back off the tracks, now they are back on a cash system.

 

[SirRumpole]

Wouldn't the question "why was Betta electrical blocked' be a better question, there are some NDIS support providers who will no doubt be blocked,
WHY is the provider blocked, not why is someone not allowed to buy a washing machine, I'm sure they are allowed to buy a washing machine.

Can you think of a reason why Betta should be blocked ? Do they sell booze or Poker machines ?

 

[mullokintyre]

Wouldn't the question "why was Betta electrical blocked' be a better question.
There are some NDIS support providers, who will no doubt be blocked, does that mean people on NDIS can't get service?
WHY is the provider blocked, not why is someone not allowed to buy a washing machine, I'm sure they are allowed to buy a washing machine.
That is exactly my point, the way it is presented, is the issue, not the process.

These are the sort of questions the MSM reporters should be asking, but they are too busy taking the political angle.
mick

 

[sptrawler]

Can you think of a reason why Betta should be blocked ? Do they sell booze or Poker machines ?

I don't know and even if I did I wouldn't dare put it in writing, but I thought I gave a good explanation as to why some NDIS providers are in the cross hairs to be blocked and they don't sell booze or poker machines either.?
I guess if there wasn't a reason, they would have applied to the ACCC to have the ban lifted, I know I would.
Wouldn't it fall under the heading discriminatory business practice? I would have thought you would have joined the dots, your normally pretty sharp. ?
Another possibility could be, maybe Betta didn't want to deal with the Govt red tape and or payment system, so wouldn't accept a welfare card?.

I know from experience and a physical altercation once, that the Govt can be very slow to pay their accounts, yet are very fast to issue accounts and demand fast payment. ?

But hey, maybe it was Morrison.? that will keep the loonies from attacking me and fits the narrative.

 

[SirRumpole]

Another possibility could be, maybe Betta didn't want to deal with the Govt red tape and or payment system, so wouldn't accept a welfare card?.

Yes I guess that is possible. Not much money to be made from welfare recipients, higher risk ?

Anyway, the overall scheme is good , it's being discontinued for political reasons without any attempt to make it better imo.

 

[sptrawler]

Yes I guess that is possible. Not much money to be made from welfare recipients, higher risk ?

I didn't say that, I don't think they would be higher risk using a welfare card, as the Government pay it. Now they haven't got a welfare card the issue may arise.
More the issue with the welfare card, if it is anything like the industry I worked in, the Govt want accounts paid in 30 days, yet can take up to 90 days to pay their accounts. Therefore some companies don't like dealing with them, it isn't worth the hassle.

Anyway, the overall scheme is good , it's being discontinued for political reasons without any attempt to make it better imo.

That's the problem I have, it has been stopped on ideological grounds, but those who most need help controlling their spending are now responsible for their own budgeting again and have to decide whether to pay the rent, buy food, or buy grog, gamble or buy drugs.
It's a shame as I said, the card turned my close relatives life around, they have a rental property and have been clean for 2 years. I hope it continues that way, but it was the welfare card that got them there and now they are back with the cash in hand hopefully they can stay there.

 

[sptrawler]

Anyway, the overall scheme is good , it's being discontinued for political reasons without any attempt to make it better imo.

Just saw this article, maybe, just maybe, the penny is dropping and Albo stops letting off the biggest brain fart that would bite him on the ar$e IMO.
Jeez I hope he re thinks it.?

After Alice alcohol clampdown, NT to get tougher cash restrictions

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese says complete alcohol bans an option for at-risk communities.

www.smh.com.au

Northern Territory residents could be subject to tougher spending restrictions when the cashless debit card used to control their spending winds up in March.
Labor promised throughout last year’s election to abolish the cashless debit card, an income management tool that quarantines between 30 per cent and 80 per cent of welfare payments, and prevents it being withdrawn as cash or used to pay for alcohol or gambling.

 

[SirRumpole]

Just saw this article, maybe, just maybe, the penny is dropping and Albo stops letting off the biggest brain fart that would bite him on the ar$e IMO.
Jeez I hope he re thinks it.?

After Alice alcohol clampdown, NT to get tougher cash restrictions

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese says complete alcohol bans an option for at-risk communities.

www.smh.com.au

Northern Territory residents could be subject to tougher spending restrictions when the cashless debit card used to control their spending winds up in March.
Labor promised throughout last year’s election to abolish the cashless debit card, an income management tool that quarantines between 30 per cent and 80 per cent of welfare payments, and prevents it being withdrawn as cash or used to pay for alcohol or gambling.

" because we know that the best solutions come from local communities themselves,"

They haven't so far.